TN to GC .. a timeline

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wretle42

New Member
So I got my TN in Jan 2015 until Jan-2018. My employer's policy is to initiate PERM after 3 months of full time employment have been completed. No issues there... They are nice and have basically delegated the procedure for GC directly to the lawfirm. The lawfirm walked me through the following timeline (I qualify for EB2 since I have an MEng and 10+ years of experience):

1. Start prep work for PERM filing in April. They mentioned it takes 4 months to do so==> File actual PERM in August 2015
2. PERM processing ... 5-6 months ==> Feb-2015. my Q1: what things can cause an audit to occur? layoffs?
3. Apply for I-140 ... based on what I have seen in threads, it is advisable not to file I-485 concurrent. my Q2: is there any issue with filing I-140 with premium processing when going from TN to GC?
4. Assuming they apply with PP, I-140 result should be available by March-2016
5. I-485/EAD/AP next ... generally 4 months...July-2016. Q3: Does the lawyer have the freedom to choose the service office with the least amount of processing time? Q4: I have read cases where an interview was requested and others where interviews were waived. What is typical for people applying for GC from TN? What does the interview cover?

Final Q) While I-485 is being adjudicated, does it matter how many times one has been to Canada (in lieu of the clause that states: "immediate trip should be temporary. Future intent permissible"? The closest Canadian border from my workplace is 14-hrs drive

Thanks for your insights.
 
I presume you have read the curiousgeorge thread on this? Please do so.
I assume you are not born in India or China, which would add years to your timeline.
1. While you may be eligible for Eb2, the job might not. Other than that, you have no point worrying about audit; nothing you can do.
2. none
3. No. The filing office for all these is based on where you live.
4. There rarely is an interview. very rarely. Read never. if you are being interviewed, there is something very iffy in your past.
Final. Not in the least. I'm not sure why you mention where the POE is located, you can cross everyday on AP once approved, whether you live in Detroit or Kansas.

Please read the curiousgeorge thread, there is really nothing to reinvent here. As always there is only one "dangerous" period when going from TN to GC: the 3-4 month period after filing I-485, etc before AP and EAD are approved. You cannot leave US nor make any changes to your TN (renew, extend, quit, etc) during this period.
 
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I've read that layoffs can trigger a PERM audit. My employer had a major layoff but it didn't affect the local office I work at. But since it was in the news, it may still trigger an audit.

A PERM audit can happen for other reasons too. All my previous employer's PERMs are getting audited because they bought a company that used to make the employee pay for their GC fees. This kind of audit is basically asking the employee to sign an affidavit that he/she is not paying the employer to sponsor him/her for GC.
 
Thanks for the response nelsona. I have indeed read curiousgeorge's post (that one is like a GC bible :)).

I should have clarified this Q further: "While I-485 is being adjudicated, does it matter how many times one has been to Canada (in lieu of the clause that states: "immediate trip should be temporary. Future intent permissible"? The closest Canadian border from my workplace is 14-hrs drive"

I read somewhere on the web (could be incorrect info) that when adjudicating I-485 for TN -> GC cases, it helps dispel the notion of immigrant intent if one has made trips up north during the course of actual TN period, it might help. Not sure of the accuracy
 
Completely bogus information. What you might be refering to is the suspicion of fraudulent entry on TN, if one, say, enters on TN on Monday and files for I-485 on Tuesday. They could later state that because you entered on TN fraudulently, you were not 'in legal status' when you filed I-485, and thereby deny the I-485.
But that is completely opposite to what you have read which would be frequent trips to canada being somehow better. In that case it would be better NOT to have travelled.

So, again, absolutely no need to travel to show or not show immig intent.
 
wretle42 said:
So I got my TN in Jan 2015 until Jan-2018. My employer's policy is to initiate PERM after 3 months of full time employment have been completed. No issues there... They are nice and have basically delegated the procedure for GC directly to the lawfirm. The lawfirm walked me through the following timeline (I qualify for EB2 since I have an MEng and 10+ years of experience):

1. Start prep work for PERM filing in April. They mentioned it takes 4 months to do so==> File actual PERM in August 2015
2. PERM processing ... 5-6 months ==> Feb-2015. my Q1: what things can cause an audit to occur? layoffs?
3. Apply for I-140 ... based on what I have seen in threads, it is advisable not to file I-485 concurrent. my Q2: is there any issue with filing I-140 with premium processing when going from TN to GC?
4. Assuming they apply with PP, I-140 result should be available by March-2016
5. I-485/EAD/AP next ... generally 4 months...July-2016. Q3: Does the lawyer have the freedom to choose the service office with the least amount of processing time? Q4: I have read cases where an interview was requested and others where interviews were waived. What is typical for people applying for GC from TN? What does the interview cover?

Final Q) While I-485 is being adjudicated, does it matter how many times one has been to Canada (in lieu of the clause that states: "immediate trip should be temporary. Future intent permissible"? The closest Canadian border from my workplace is 14-hrs drive

Thanks for your insights.
Click to expand...
so are you saying it will take 3 years from the point you get your TN visa to the point you get your GC? using work route and no marriage involved?
 
The length of time varies based on what Employment category you are in and how long it takes for PERM and I-140 to be processed. Right now, 3 years would be a good approximation.

If you marry a US citizen, then you are not getting an employemnt GC, you are getting a Marriage-based GC, and this discussion doesn't apply to you.
 
nelsona said:
The length of time varies based on what Employment category you are in and how long it takes for PERM and I-140 to be processed. Right now, 3 years would be a good approximation.

If you marry a US citizen, then you are not getting an employemnt GC, you are getting a Marriage-based GC, and this discussion doesn't apply to you.
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got it thanks...

Having a masters degree from Canada put me in EB-2(A): category but this probably does not apply to TN?
Not sure how some of the people I knew only took 11 months to 16 months from the point they applied for GC till they got it. Could be because they were on H1b? actually Iam not even sure about that if they were on H1b or TN. They were born outside of North American and also not in India or China. One of them got it 4-5 years ago while the other one got it last year.

Also, as I re-read the OP post, he is expecting I485 to be done by Aug 2016 (which meanss getting GC??) i-e he started in Jan 2015 and expecting GC Aug 2016 which is 18 months. so OP's prediction is not realistic as you mentioned 3 years is a good approximation?
 
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I think as nelsona mentioned: "The length of time varies based on what Employment category you are in and how long it takes for PERM and I-140 to be processed. Right now, 3 years would be a good approximation."... whether it takes 15 months or 3 years, it has nothing to do with whether you are on TN or H1. TN/H1/other-work-statuses are merely temporary work authorizations in the US. You are not a permanent worker until you get GC. Let me break down the best case scenario for getting GC per my understanding (Say M1 is the first month of your employment in the US firm under TN authorization) - all of this assumes you fall under ROW EB2 category for which the immigrant visa status is 'current' i.e. an immigrant visa is available as soon as you qualify:

  1. GC process = 1. PERM --> 2. I140 --> 3. I485
  2. Different firms have different policies to kickstat PERM. Say your firm requires 4 months of service before PERM processing starts
  3. PERM processing starts = M4. Steps involved before PERM is filed with DOL
    1. Prevailing wage determination
    2. Placing ads on two consecutive Sundays in newspaper of general circulation for your geographic area
    3. placing a job order with the State workforce agency for at least 30 days
    4. Posting an internal job posting at the worksite for at least 10 busines days
    5. conducting at least 3 additional forms of recruitment during the period mentioned above
    6. a 30-day cool-off period prior to filing PERM with DOL
  4. Just to get to PERM filing with DOL, you are looking at 6-7 months, so you'd be at M11 of your employment with the company at this time
  5. DOL takes 7 months to process PERM --> you are at M18 now
  6. At this point, you can move to Step-2 i.e. I140. Even though you can file I140/485 concurrently, based on what I have read on threads, it is recommended to do 140 and 485 sequentially. Assuming your lawyer files I140 with premium processing, you'd be in M19 by the time you get approved for I140
  7. You can now start step-3 i.e. 485. 5-6 month processing time...you'd have the GC by M25, however,
    1. your dependents and you will get EAD ~ 2-3 months after filing for 485
    2. your dependents and you will get AP which will enable you to travel outside the US. Do NOT travel outside the US after filing 485 without AP. Based on my understanding, you wont be allowed back as you have filed 485 which is immigrant intent

Things that can potentially delay the GC:
  1. PERM audit - 12-13 month delay
  2. your employer's policy doesnt allow for GC processing to begin until after you have worked for them for several months
HTH. Nelsona can correct in case something I stated doesnt make sense.
 
Hello Mister said:
I think as nelsona mentioned: "The length of time varies based on what Employment category you are in and how long it takes for PERM and I-140 to be processed. Right now, 3 years would be a good approximation."... whether it takes 15 months or 3 years, it has nothing to do with whether you are on TN or H1. TN/H1/other-work-statuses are merely temporary work authorizations in the US. You are not a permanent worker until you get GC. Let me break down the best case scenario for getting GC per my understanding (Say M1 is the first month of your employment in the US firm under TN authorization) - all of this assumes you fall under ROW EB2 category for which the immigrant visa status is 'current' i.e. an immigrant visa is available as soon as you qualify:

  1. GC process = 1. PERM --> 2. I140 --> 3. I485
  2. Different firms have different policies to kickstat PERM. Say your firm requires 4 months of service before PERM processing starts
  3. PERM processing starts = M4. Steps involved before PERM is filed with DOL
    1. Prevailing wage determination
    2. Placing ads on two consecutive Sundays in newspaper of general circulation for your geographic area
    3. placing a job order with the State workforce agency for at least 30 days
    4. Posting an internal job posting at the worksite for at least 10 busines days
    5. conducting at least 3 additional forms of recruitment during the period mentioned above
    6. a 30-day cool-off period prior to filing PERM with DOL
  4. Just to get to PERM filing with DOL, you are looking at 6-7 months, so you'd be at M11 of your employment with the company at this time
  5. DOL takes 7 months to process PERM --> you are at M18 now
  6. At this point, you can move to Step-2 i.e. I140. Even though you can file I140/485 concurrently, based on what I have read on threads, it is recommended to do 140 and 485 sequentially. Assuming your lawyer files I140 with premium processing, you'd be in M19 by the time you get approved for I140
  7. You can now start step-3 i.e. 485. 5-6 month processing time...you'd have the GC by M25, however,
    1. your dependents and you will get EAD ~ 2-3 months after filing for 485
    2. your dependents and you will get AP which will enable you to travel outside the US. Do NOT travel outside the US after filing 485 without AP. Based on my understanding, you wont be allowed back as you have filed 485 which is immigrant intent

Things that can potentially delay the GC:
  1. PERM audit - 12-13 month delay
  2. your employer's policy doesnt allow for GC processing to begin until after you have worked for them for several months
HTH. Nelsona can correct in case something I stated doesnt make sense.
Click to expand...

Hello Hello Mister,

Thats an excellent response. Thank you for taking time.
So getting an EAD (Employee Authorization Document) mean that me and my spouse do not need any visa sponsorship to be able to work in US ? I am basically referring to this thread of mine
http://forums.immigration.com/threa...ses-eligibility-to-work-if-i-am-on-tn.327644/

So basically 3 months before me and my family actually get GC (about which I initially thought the family processing starts after I get GC) we can work in US without visa sponsorship.
So basically in best case scenario there is 1 year to prep for the application and another 1 year to get EAD. yeah, that matches with the GC experiences I have heard from my contacts.
Also I assume the employer is willing to go TN->GC and not TN-H1b->GC which will easily add minimum 1 year or so as we are already passed April.

Can PERM application be filed with DOL anytime during the year? same with I40 and 485.

During the processing does it matter if I or my family are physically in US or not?or its a requirement only during the period of 485 application and getting AP?

ANother curious question. My employer did try to hire from local market and probably went through the steps you listed before hiring me as I am not in US. So 3 months after hiring me when they want to apply for my GC, will they need to go through all those steps again? or they can simply say we tried 3 months ago and could'nt find anymore.
 
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No ned to reinvent the wheel, The process from TN ot GC is well know and documented in the curiousgeorge post.

The steps the empoyer took were NOT thru the PERM process, so, offcially, he did nothing in this regard, and he did not have to because he was hiring you under a temporary TN status. Now, he will have to do PERM< which he can start next week if he wishes. there does not have to be a 3-month waiting period.
 
canimmig said:
Hello Hello Mister,

Thats an excellent response. Thank you for taking time.
So getting an EAD (Employee Authorization Document) mean that me and my spouse do not need any visa sponsorship to be able to work in US ? I am basically referring to this thread of mine
http://forums.immigration.com/threa...ses-eligibility-to-work-if-i-am-on-tn.327644/

So basically 3 months before me and my family actually get GC (about which I initially thought the family processing starts after I get GC) we can work in US without visa sponsorship.
So basically in best case scenario there is 1 year to prep for the application and another 1 year to get EAD. yeah, that matches with the GC experiences I have heard from my contacts.
Also I assume the employer is willing to go TN->GC and not TN-H1b->GC which will easily add minimum 1 year or so as we are already passed April.

Can PERM application be filed with DOL anytime during the year? same with I40 and 485.

During the processing does it matter if I or my family are physically in US or not?or its a requirement only during the period of 485 application and getting AP?

ANother curious question. My employer did try to hire from local market and probably went through the steps you listed before hiring me as I am not in US. So 3 months after hiring me when they want to apply for my GC, will they need to go through all those steps again? or they can simply say we tried 3 months ago and could'nt find anymore.
Click to expand...

Wrt your question on "So basically 3 months before me and my family actually get GC (about which I initially thought the family processing starts after I get GC) we can work in US without visa sponsorship" ... pretty much. As soon as you guys obtain EAD, your dependents are free to work.

Second Q: "Also I assume the employer is willing to go TN->GC and not TN-H1b->GC which will easily add minimum 1 year or so as we are already passed April". Not the case ... your employer can start PERM today and while that is being processed, it can *still* try to get you an H1b

Third Q: "My employer did try to hire from local market and...." When your employer hired, it was for a temporary role. That's what your TN letter likely stated too. This is different from PERM where your employer now wants to hire you permanently...different lingo...different requirements....

PERM can be filed at anytime during the year...

Do checkout curiousgeorge's post.
 
Hello Mister said:
Wrt your question on "So basically 3 months before me and my family actually get GC (about which I initially thought the family processing starts after I get GC) we can work in US without visa sponsorship" ... pretty much. As soon as you guys obtain EAD, your dependents are free to work.

Second Q: "Also I assume the employer is willing to go TN->GC and not TN-H1b->GC which will easily add minimum 1 year or so as we are already passed April". Not the case ... your employer can start PERM today and while that is being processed, it can *still* try to get you an H1b

Third Q: "My employer did try to hire from local market and...." When your employer hired, it was for a temporary role. That's what your TN letter likely stated too. This is different from PERM where your employer now wants to hire you permanently...different lingo...different requirements....

PERM can be filed at anytime during the year...

Do checkout curiousgeorge's post.
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Interesting. so PERM can be prepared and applied and processed while the employer try to convert my TN to H1b. SO the two things can happen in parallel. so its not necessarily going to effect my GC processing. so whether my employer go TN-GC or TN->H1b->GC the timeline will not be effected unless ofcourse the visa switch take place after 485 is applied which can screw up the whole case.
 
But remember that H1-B is a lottery, which one applies for only in April, with marginal success. Do NOT let your employer think that he must wait for H1-B approval to proceed or your GC process will grind to a halt. If you don't have PERM by next april when h1-B would be submitted, thereis a serious problem with your case.

But if their were a visa switch in October 2016 -- the earliest possible date-- (assuming you didn't have your GC by then) it will have absolutely no impact on GC process either. Realize that some people go thru PREM/GC without ever setting foot in US or even working for their sponsor. they get GC before working in US. So, the work status you have before getting GC has no bearing on the GC process.
Just don't delay the process just because your firm (or worse, their lawyer) decides it would be "safer" to get H1-B before proceeding. That is false security, and should be taken as an indication that they are not serious about getting GC for you.
 
+1 to Nelsona's comment. "Do NOT let your employer think that he must wait for H1-B approval to proceed or your GC process will grind to a halt". The only time having H1 will be beneficial is if (say) you not (your employer) have shown immigrant intent (485) right at the cusp of H1 renewal and you send in a request to renew H1 (while waiting for EAD arrival to stay in status). This renewal wont have any problems. Contrast this with requesting TN renewal after filing 485. It will most likely be denied and you will be out of status. This is why a lot of experts recommend filing 485 only once you have sufficient amount of time left on TN (1-yr is probably a safe bet). Dont mean to scare you but its best to err on the side of caution
 
You simply cannot file TN with I-485 submitted. One would have to file for TN first, get approval, then submit I-485.

This planning would have happened months earlier.
 
and how about I loose my job during TN->GC? I believe the process needs to restart?
Is there any stage in GC processing where job does not matter anymore?
 
canimmig said:
and how about I loose my job during TN->GC? I believe the process needs to restart?
Is there any stage in GC processing where job does not matter anymore?
Click to expand...

Read my ongoing thread about getting laid off during GC process:
http://forums.immigration.com/threads/acquisition-merger-impact-on-tn-and-gc-need-advice.327327/

Basically it depends on in what exact phase of the GC process you lose your job. If I-485 has been pending more than 180 days, you are fine but are supposed to find a similar job (AC-21). If you get laid off during the first 180 days of I-485, you are still fine if your employer does not withdraw the underlying I-140. In all other cases, you pretty much have to restart the GC from scratch.

Keep in mind once you file I-485, you can no longer apply for TN even if your I-485 is abandoned for whatever reason.
 
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