TIN and SSN

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XiaopingZer

Registered Users (C)
Hello there:
I will have my GC interview on Aug 31. After that, I heard that in order to be emploied I have to apply for a SSN. I have a TIN(Tax Identification Number) and I have been using it for many purposes such as applying for the ID card, banking, ... I wonder, can I use the TIN instead of the SSN?
Maybe it's a silly question, hehe, but just curious.
Thank you~
 
I doubt it.

The rules are pretty strict. Basically if you have a passport, that will suffice. Otherwise (Going by memory here) you need two forms of ID, one picture, plus proof that you are allowed to work in the US, if you were not born here.
 
Your ITTN Number is to be used strictly for IRS tax purposes, it does not extend you any other priviliages, It can not be used for employment, SSn & ITTN are totally different, basically the ITTN is a reference number for the IRS, nothing more.

Once you get your GC you can take that to SS office and apply for SS number, or if you filed for EAD you can use that to get SS number.

The SS office will require proof that you are leaglly allowed to work or be gainfully employed, the proof would be THE GC, EAD card or A working Visa,

with out eveidence of your ability GOVT. authorization to work you will not be given a SS number
 
Can you use the TIN isntead of the SSN to work? If you employer allows it, you can.

Most casino employees in Las Vegas work with a TIN instead of an SSN. It has become the a de facto SSN here and it's totally legit.
 
eddie_d said:
Can you use the TIN isntead of the SSN to work? If you employer allows it, you can.

Most casino employees in Las Vegas work with a TIN instead of an SSN. It has become the a de facto SSN here and it's totally legit.
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It is only legit as to a tax id number not authorization to work, IT is ILLEGAL TO WORK WITHOUT PROPER Authorization,Any employer who does not verify legal Auth. to work is in violation of federal laws.ITN is NOT AUTHORIZATION TO WORK!

Fortunatly for these illegal workers, the Govt. does not have its act in order to cross check those with ITNN number to those who are truly legally allowed to work.

The ITTN number is used for and ID for dependants who do not have a SSN of Tax payers, ( such as spouse or children of US Citizen)
 
Addie_Goodvibes said:
It is only legit as to a tax id number not authorization to work, IT is ILLEGAL TO WORK WITHOUT PROPER Authorization,Any employer who does not verify legal Auth. to work is in violation of federal laws.ITN is NOT AUTHORIZATION TO WORK!

Fortunatly for these illegal workers, the Govt. does not have its act in order to cross check those with ITNN number to those who are truly legally allowed to work.

The ITTN number is used for and ID for dependants who do not have a SSN of Tax payers, ( such as spouse or children of US Citizen)
Click to expand...

I don't know all the details. All I know is that MGM Mirage and Harrah's are both giant companies, publicly traded, capitalized in the tens of billions of dollars, with teams and teams of accountants and auditors. They both use the TIN and SSN as interchangable. I would be very surprised to learn that 1/2 of their employees are openly working illegally. I know it's Las Vegas and laws tend to slide a little here and there, but not on such a wide scale.
 
Thanks for the Reply

Thanks guys, I truly appreciate the feedback. Because it remains somewhat confusing, I am going to ask the local imigration office on Aug8th with my info pass. Then after that, I wish that I can write a more clear answer here regarding the difference between TN and SSN for the purpose of employment. :)
 
http://www.inteconlaw.com/I-9_counseling.htm

The first list are the documents which can verify employment eligibility without any further evidence. Otherwise you have to show two original documents from the other two categories. Basically a valid ID, and proof that you can work here.

No where is a Tax ID number mentioned. It is not an ID, and it is not verification that you are allowed to work here.

In Las Vegas, they do an extensive background check that takes about 3 months for many jobs. I am sure that people may offer the tax ID number to conduct the background check, since these people do not have a SSN, but this does not satisfy the requirements for the I-9 form.

DOCUMENTS WHICH ESTABLISH BOTH IDENTITY
AND ELIGIBILITY FOR EMPLOYMENT

1. United States Passport
2. Certificate of United States Citizenship (Form N-560 or N-561)
3. Certificate of Naturalization (Form N-550 or N-570)
4. Unexpired foreign passport which: Contains an unexpired stamp which reads "Processed for I-551. Temporary Evidence of Lawful Admission for permanent residence. Valid until _[date]_ employment authorized"; or has attached thereto a Form I-94 (little white card) bearing the same name as the passport and contains an employment authorization stamp, so long as the period of endorsement has not yet expired and the proposed employment
is not in conflict with any restrictions or limitations identified on the Form I-94.
5. Alien Registration Receipt Card (Form I-151) or Resident Alien Card (Form I-551) (commonly called a "Green Card"), provided that it contains a photograph of the bearer.
6. Temporary Resident Card (Form I-688).
7. Employment Authorization Document (Form I-688-A).

DOCUMENTS WHICH ESTABLISH IDENTITY ONLY
1. State-issued driver's license or state-issued identification card containing a photograph.
2. School identification card with a photograph.
3. Voter's registration card.
4. United States military card of draft record.
5. Identification card issued by federal, state or local government agencies.
6. Military dependent's identification card.
7. Native American tribal documents.
8. United States Coast Guard Merchant Mariner's Card
9. Driver's license issued by a Canadian government authority.

DOCUMENTS WHICH ESTABLISH EMPLOYMENT AUTHORIZATION ONLY
1. Social Security card, other than one which has printed on its face "not valid for employment purposes." Note: This must be a card issued by the Social Security Administration; a facsimile such as a metal or plastic reproduction is not acceptable.
2. An original or certified copy of a birth certificate issued by a state, county, or municipal authority bearing an official seal.
3. Unexpired CIS employment authorization.
4. Unexpired re-entry permit (INS Form I-327).
5. Unexpired Refugee Travel Document (INS Form I-571).
6. Certification of Birth Abroad issued by the U.S. Department of State (Form DS-1350).
7. United States Citizen Identification Card (Form I-197).
8. Native American tribal document.
9. Identification Card for use of Resident Citizen of the United States (Form I-179).
 
Ken27 said:
In Las Vegas, they do an extensive background check that takes about 3 months for many jobs. I am sure that people may offer the tax ID number to conduct the background check, since these people do not have a SSN, but this does not satisfy the requirements for the I-9 form.
Click to expand...

First off the casinos don't do any checks. Either the gaming control board or the clark county sheriff's department does. So what the casinos do with or without an SSN is a separate story.

What 100% of casino employees have is a a sheriff's card. That is done in 2 minutes not 3 months and they don't care is you have an SSN or not. The check is just to see ifyou have a warrant out. In reality it just a way for the county to make $40 on every new casino hire under the guise of "security". They'd gice a card to a tree if it paid its $40.

The 3 months you're thinking of is for FBI / background checks for a small set of employees that are requested again by the gaming control board, not the casinos themselves. I had one done, a Level II which is even more intrusive - they found unpaid parking tickets from 10 years ago.

The law may very well say one thing, I am telling you from working at the HQ of the biggest casino corporation in the world for 3 years, the reality is about 50% of employees have no SSN. For this very same corporation the 401(k) and health plan internal systems were changed, to accept TINs even though an employee is not eligible for either health coverage or 401(k) until on the job for 90 days.
 
eddie_d said:
The law may very well say one thing, I am telling you from working at the HQ of the biggest casino corporation in the world for 3 years, the reality is about 50% of employees have no SSN. For this very same corporation the 401(k) and health plan internal systems were changed, to accept TINs even though an employee is not eligible for either health coverage or 401(k) until on the job for 90 days.
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Those CRIMINAL employees who do work ILLEGALLY should be arrested and deported, They do not contribute to the integrtity of the system only make things worse. I would love to see ICE come into Vegas and clear it out of all the roaches who try to defraud the system. As well as Those that support them.


I rest your weak case eddie!
 
Addie_Goodvibes said:
It is only legit as to a tax id number not authorization to work, IT is ILLEGAL TO WORK WITHOUT PROPER Authorization,Any employer who does not verify legal Auth. to work is in violation of federal laws.ITN is NOT AUTHORIZATION TO WORK!
Click to expand...

While strictly speaking you are correct that the ITIN is not work authorization, if one has a GC one is automatically authorized to work, even if they only have an ITIN.
 
Addie_Goodvibes said:
Those CRIMINAL employees who do work ILLEGALLY should be arrested and deported, They do not contribute to the integrtity of the system only make things worse. I would love to see ICE come into Vegas and clear it out of all the roaches who try to defraud the system. As well as Those that support them.


I rest your weak case eddie!
Click to expand...

I seriously have no clue what you're talking about. What case? I'm telling you the way things work, I didn't implement the policy. :rolleyes: :confused:

And nobody is defrauding anybody. Those workers still pay taxes. ICE knows exactly where they are, they just don't care. If you haven't noticed - and living in SoCal I'm sure you have - there is no distinction between legal and illegal anymore. The illegals are here to stay, they're not going anywhere despite any rhetoric you may hear coming out of a politican's a** (err excuse me mouth).

In Las Vegas the people using TINs used to have fake or stolen SSNs. The casinos knew they were fake but were looking the other way. At least this way the TIN is a "real" number and there is no SS fraud going on.

Before you get off your high horse, think why they're here. Simple reason: nobody else will do the jobs. And these are good paying, union jobs with great benefits. Unlike the myth out there that illegals work for $4 an hour, casino jobs provide a solid middle class living, yet even so cleaning toilets and mowing the grass in 115 degree heat is not something Americans will do, regardless of the pay.
 
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