The Truth is bitter...

C

catdog

Registered Users (C)
I did NOT mean to initiate idle discussion abut what India has acheived and what the politicians are doing and what we can do for India and all that..

I am talking about the individual people here who are wasting their time and their golden years of their lives for a GC. If you had been trying your GC in 1994-2000 I would have supported you because there was a direct benefit. Now first of all , it will take you years to get one.. secondly it does not carry much value as before.. third you can go back to your country and make comparable money in PPP terms ( not absolute conversion from $ to Rs ) .

With the fiscal deficits, the coming boomer retirement and consequently the mdedical needs of all those old people, much higher taxes and higher inflation are around the corner. Add ot it the wage pressures becasue of off-shore competition and you see the picture ( much lower standards of living here and higher in India ). This movment in std of living will go on till there is an equilibrium between US and India/China. And that is because work can be moved anywhere with ease nowadays.

So unless you have been in this country for > 10-12 years and have made a fortune ( atleast a few hundred thousand $ if not a million ) with the dot com boom and not lost a fortune in the stock market.. you should not be here.

You will be in for a big dissapointment if you stay. Go now and make life easy for us who are well settled here and make life easy for yourselves. Don't you hear the sound of partying since the dates came out ? It is those bodyshoppers who are laughing all the way to the bank while you cry softly in your bed all night..They have you as modern day slaves for a few more years..
 
I agree that future US economy is a big ?. Gas price is raising, Social security in trouble..globilization, outsourcing threat..India and China economy growth rate is enormous. OK..

what is the option for an ordinary engineer who came here in H1, lived for six years, raised family? If you want to live in India, you should always be a rich till you die. I got shock when I hear from my friend in banglore, howmuch he paid for the kindregarten admission for his son. Cost of decent home (not an apartmaent) in bangalore not imaginable. Basic, healthy, simple life style is too expensive in India. Unless you make huge money (IT field), India is not suitable. Even if one make good money, one have to live with population issues, pollution, lack of public infrastucture ect..However, even if you do simple low paid job (like wal mart cashier) you have a better life style in USA. That is why most peoples want to migrate to usa, not for the US$$$ salary.
 
If you want a 5 star kindergarden then you will pay thru your nose. that's true. You can still put your kid in a good regular school and that should not cost you an arm and leg.. Population and pollution are there. but you lived there before coming here and so do a lot of other rich people. Think about it..even with the pollution and population where did you laugh and enjoy more ? Also, if they wanted all the rich people in India can come to the US for good air water no corruption no pollution. But lakhs of rich people in India continue to live there..

Now, Go see where a walmart cashier lives. some shitty apartment somewhere ridden with drugs and crime. Most of the desis coming here to work originate from middle or lower middle class families living in not so great apartments in India. But where there any murders or drugs ? No, our parents ensurued that even though people had no money our culture was maintained..
 
CatDog get in touch with reality

first of all we will appreciate if you tell us your state?, because people who give big bhasan or usually the lucky ones who got everything or those who have no life....and still living in empty dreams, we are waiting to know abt your background...pls..

you dont even know the difference betn india and usa, u cannot even compare....its almost 100 times....

i am a citizen of india, if i have money i can live like a king....and i have no right in usa....at the mercy of my employer...but still....i am staying here....why??

too much benefit of staying here....
1. income to standard of living....you cant compare...an average SW engg makes around Rs. 35k pm in bangalore, how much can he save after living a decent lifestyle....not more than rs. 10k......how many years before he has around rs. 75 lacs which is enough to retire.......62 years.

2. is there any social security??, what happens to all the tax we pay over there??...do we get any benefits when we lose job....etc...etc...


if you think we are wasting time on these forums....you are mistaken......GC is really important to us.....since then we will be totally free to live life over here......and thats why we hang around here.....
and in the meantime.....everything is taken care as they should be......we are definitely feeling bad....becos of this retrogression.....because we are feeling cheated by this change of rules.....

so we are not doing any harm to anyone.....neither ignoring any work....and we will be thankful....if you stop chanting mera bhrath mahaan......

u think usa is on the decline.....maybe or may not be.....but we have more faith in usa than in india....

we are trying to estimate the fate of GC....so that we can plan our future accordingly.......if we wont get it......well and good.....we will pack our bags....and another place.....but we will try our best.....not sacrificing anything.....since life here is really goood........even though i pay 50% of my billing to my employer and middle layer........i still make enough...to have a blast.....

so buddy....tell us abt your state.....what are you???

it was a waste of time to write such a long message for you......i guess i cud not take the bhasan anymore.....
 
Dont Understand ...

Good work Prasad...
For Good, I went to India i.e.. in late 2001 when the actual offshore market is booming up. I stayed over there for almost year, and felt like I am not saving any thing compared to earnings in US. I was working as Technical Architect, for one among top 3 companies in India. Every month when ever I looked in my accounts & Assets, I used to see only savings from US earnings. Then I came back to US in Sept 2002, life is back in normal track as usual. This is W.r.t Vitamin M.

When you come to work culture, I would clearly say there is no professionalism over there. Still I do offshore co-ordination, I see people talking in their own languages. For positions, titles and Pay hikes people play cheap politics which I hate, this is in all companies in India ranging from small to Large.

On whole I cud't adjust to anything, when I tried to settle in India.

With the help of AC21 I found a job in Govt. org. So no head ache of offshore co ordination in 2 weeks from now.. And no night outs ... :)

Best Regards
Anil..
 
Ignore catdog

Friends, do not pay any attention to catdog's comments Let him blabber whatever he wants. By responding we are encouraging him.
 
Excellent discussion....

There is nothing wrong in discussing this.. We will definitely be able to analyze things when we discuss. Good offensive start by catdog. Prasad gave a good retreat. After reading Prasad's comments, I could understand why I am still wanting to be in USA.

Thanks, guys.
 
Prasad and Anil are money-hungry people who have no problems doing anything for money. They do not value peace of mind, culture and more importantly teir health . They only like to see some dollars in t heir accounts.

My friends, all the money in the world won't help you when you are sick with ulcers, diabetes, bp etc bought on by the GC stress. I bet you can make upto 75K pm easily in India . That will give you enough money to save and have fun in India.( unless you are totally useless and then you shoud not be in this field. 30K is the entry level salary for people out of college. If you get offers only for 35K then get out of IT and open a cleaning service in Bangalore. All the good people coming from US need professional cleaning services )

Everybody in the world is praising companies like Infosys Wipro etc who have CMM 5 level etc. How did they get there without professionalism ? There may be a few bad apples but overall they are the best. I think it is people like Prasd and Anil who are not good and they criticize everybody else.

BTW I am a well-settled citizen here. Got my GC quite a few years back. I would not be here if I was in your situation trying to get a GC now.
 
Well i didn't read the whole arguments above. But all i can say one can't make generic statements. The person who says ( which is more common) that if i were you in ur situation i might have gone back to India.
Well, yes everyone who has GC/Citizenship will repeat the same words.
 
Un reasonable....

catdog said:
Prasad and Anil are money-hungry people who have no problems doing anything for money. They do not value peace of mind, culture and more importantly teir health . They only like to see some dollars in t heir accounts.
----Better mind your Language before Pinpointing.... yada .. yada..I was making more than 100k pm in india.... If I am money hungry I wud have't accepted a position in Govt. Sector..... why do you take that much stress for GC... there are lot of options you can work out... I never felt greedy for GC...

My friends, all the money in the world won't help you when you are sick with ulcers, diabetes, bp etc bought on by the GC stress. I bet you can make upto 75K pm easily in India . That will give you enough money to save and have fun in India.( unless you are totally useless and then you shoud not be in this field. 30K is the entry level salary for people out of college. If you get offers only for 35K then get out of IT and open a cleaning service in Bangalore. All the good people coming from US need professional cleaning services )
---- I guess you are very greddy for GC. I am not taking any stress about it...


Everybody in the world is praising companies like Infosys Wipro etc who have CMM 5 level etc. How did they get there without professionalism ? There may be a few bad apples but overall they are the best. I think it is people like Prasd and Anil who are not good and they criticize everybody else.
---- I am not criticizing any one... I am telling you what I am going thru ... FYI I used to work with one of the firm you stated...

BTW I am a well-settled citizen here. Got my GC quite a few years back. I would not be here if I was in your situation trying to get a GC now.
Click to expand...

--- Then why the heck you are coming here and posting the stuff which is not necessary for you... If I am in your position I wud never visted this forum, what ever you stated is true... I am little skeptical about your citizenship... with the way ...
 
Why are you skeptical ? Not everybody is a bad timer like you. I got it when the going was good. Not waiting till everybody rushed in..

Anil you can't even argue well. Counter my points.. do not ask me to disappear.
 
Citizen

If you are citizen why you are in this forum? That is the reason i am skeptical about.. And its waste of time for me to argue with you...
 
catdog said:
If you want a 5 star kindergarden then you will pay thru your nose. that's true. You can still put your kid in a good regular school and that should not cost you an arm and leg.. Population and pollution are there. but you lived there before coming here and so do a lot of other rich people. Think about it..even with the pollution and population where did you laugh and enjoy more ? Also, if they wanted all the rich people in India can come to the US for good air water no corruption no pollution. But lakhs of rich people in India continue to live there..

Now, Go see where a walmart cashier lives. some shitty apartment somewhere ridden with drugs and crime. Most of the desis coming here to work originate from middle or lower middle class families living in not so great apartments in India. But where there any murders or drugs ? No, our parents ensurued that even though people had no money our culture was maintained..
Click to expand...
The five star KG is for kids of cinestars, who make millions. I am talking about ordinary private schools. Can you imagine to send your (an engineer's) kids to public muniucipal schools in India? People laugh. Here I am sending my kids to public school I am spending no money. At the same time I am proud of paying state income tax. When I went for admission for my kid in US, school was so happy in welcomeing us. It is unfortunate in India, no body is willing to study other than computers, engineering and medicine. Think, if your kid is not willing to go in IT, engineering or medical field and want to study BA history. What kind of carrier your kid will have in India, if he opt to study BA. But here, kids are proud of what they selecet and what they study.

Culture..Are you kidding? Where is culture in India? Go and see Zee TV, Sun TV or any channals. Indian family's are watching all cinema songs (which is semi phorographic) with kids. The dances are sooooo sexy. What kind of entertainment the kids in India have? Only Cinema or TV. Here, that kind of channels are option.

Most of us willing to stay here mostly for kids.
 
At least Can card knows how to have a discussion unlike Anil who wishes his problems would just disappaear. Anil unfortunately, you won't wake up one morning and see the GC on your pillow.

Now on to can card. I am not talking about cinestar schools nor am I talking about muncipal schools. I am talking about ordinary private schools which any person earning over 25-30 K can afford. Fees are around 600-700 rs. I have numerous frielnds whose kids go to normal schools and they are way ahead of the kids over here. They learn to read and write much quicker and also do math much better.

Think about it.. the reason yuo are here because you got better education in math and science. and you did not go to a cinestar school nor to a muncipal school. you and I went to an ordinary private school( convent or not does not matter, I was in a regular english medium )

Atleast in India people who study engg do well. Over here only medicine and law are desired. American people don't want their kids to do engg because jobs arebeing offshored. Don't talk about doing BA over here. The guy who is doing my deck just completed his fine arts degree in English literature. He is thinking why he wasted his time .


About TV, are you kidding me ? It seems you do not have cable tv otherwise yu won't be complaining about zee and sony. have you seen MTV here ? Atleast you have Aastha in India if you really want good culture in India.

Can card it seems you want the pleasures of life here and are hiding behind your kids. Kids have an amazing capability of adjusting . You came up from the same situation in India. It is you who is the problem.

Make no mistake, this is still the place for a very good quality of life. Just not for people who are starting now. Maybe you should come back when another boom is starting ( maybe nanotechnology or biotech )
 
Things are not that bad yet,

Instead of just sitting around complaining or packing bags to go home, we could unite and fight for the right immigration bill to pass.
 
who do you want to fight ? The Govt ? Good luck...No All the luck in the world that's what yuo need .
 
We are not fighting the government. We can fight for the right immigration bill to pass. There are a couple of them in discussion right now. McCain/Kennedy bill is especially helpful in solving the retrogression.

Also, for singles, you also have the option to marry somebody who was born in country other than China and India.
 
Unfortunately, you do not have a status in this country. Who are you to fight ? The govt will do what it feels is good for the country and the CEOs of the companies not good for the immigrants.
You are just a little pawn with no voice. They can move you wherever they want to suit them.
As I said, TRUTH IS BITTER
 
catdog,

Agree. kids in India oversmart, and far ahead compare to US counterparts. This is by compulson by parents and schools, not spontanious. The competition starts in LKG. Indian kids are under always pressure. They are losing the fun of childhood. If you compare education system between two, certainly India nowhere near to US. Why so many from India come to US to study here? when they started studying calculus is not important, the important is how they study.

You are talking with the assumption of you can control your future or kids carrieer. That may not be always possible. what if your kid is not wlling to study after high school. Compare the situation or jobs for highschool graduate between US and India. In US they may not enjoy luxury life. But they will get some decent job. In India if one has only high school diplomo, it is very difficult to get job that give a decent salary. I doubt one can even make 5000rs with high school diplomo.

"The guy who is doing my deck just completed his fine arts degree in English literature. He is thinking why he wasted his time"

No one satisfied with job they currently do. Even, sometime I think, why I have not studied Ph.D. That is not the issue. Issue is, For the given set of condition or qualifcaton, how the life differs between US & India.

Regarding TV,

I have 40 channels including MTV. If you want to see, hip or b**t shaking songs you have to change to MTV. MTV is rated as R channal. But in India, every channals are worst than MTV (Zee, sony, Sun, anything name you name it). But they are classified as family channals in India. These channels are more stumulating than MTV.

I am not here to enjoy the plessure of US life. I want to live simple healthy life fits with my qualification . That is a right of every human. Thats all..That is not easily avialabe in India
 
To Cancard

Cancard

I would have agreed with you 10 years back with your last statement. Not now. You can get much more over there now than here. You will defnitely get a job worth your qual and even more if you are willing to look. Your rise will be faster because the companies there are expanding like anything.
Here they are always looking to cut costs so you may be the next one unless you keep your nose to the grindstone. That 's what the CEOs want. Everybody working as a slave.. so they can make merry.

If you call working as a slave and always being in the fear of laid off unless you work your butt off, HEALTHY, then good for you ! If you tell me that you are not working that hard and are having fun here, then you will soon have a trip to the unemployment office...

I am sorry to say that without proper qual the jobs you can get here now are burger flippers or that category. If you call that decent then I can't argue with you. If your kid only has a high shcool diploma over here it will be worth nothing. there used to be decent paying manufacturing jobs for less qualified people.not anymore everything is going to china/india.

So rest assured if your child does not want to study and get a PROFESSIONAL college degree he is a goner.. no matter if he is in india or usa.

What I meant to say with the example of the deck guy was that even with a college degree he is upset that he does not have a decent office job and to make some money he is working in 100 degree weather making decks. So imagine what a kid with high school diploma will do.. grilling a burger near a very hot grill...

To spoil somebody you do not need 100 channels. IF kids want to see porno they will see it anywhere.. There is much more on the internet than anywhere else. It is how you bring them up. So having ZEE SOny etc does not make any difference. If you try to make your kid a prisoner he will go towards those things more. If you teach tme the right thing and trust them then they will do the right thing no matter where...
 
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