the reason not to go back to india

[Apollo_13]

I disagree.

More cell phones, more cars, more TV channels -- so it is better??????

Compared to 10 years back, pollution is more, corruption is more, crime more, population is more. I only see these things getting worse over next 10 years.

I didn't consider more cell phones. more cars, more TV channels when I said India is much better today...At the same time we should not ignore these improvements as well....

Take a look, Lots of foreign companies are starting their offices in India, investing a lot of money in India, It improves job opportunities in India, definitely unemployment rate would have gone down tremndously.

Also literacy rate has gone up....

For e.g

in 1981, it was 36%,
in 1991, it was 51%,
in 2001, it was 64%

Also, standard of living has improved a lot in the last 10 years.....

Also, India has the highest population in young people category...This is very important for the growth in India.

List goes on.......

 

[Apollo_13]

not really. upward in some respects are bad . for eg there is upward trend in quotas too. if you have kids my advice is DONT GO BACK to India.

This quota suddenly popped up in recent weeks after a very long break...

Yes, its too bad that people are talking about Quota system, its not a good sign of growth...

Because of some stupid politicians to attract more votes creating all these mess....hope it stops soon...

If it continues, then obviously talented people will find their job elsewhere, not in India....

 

[InLabor4TooLong]

India and Economics

Note that I am not justifying anything here…just stating economic implications

Politics and Economics: A Politician wins election results in
a. One or more opponents loosing the same election after having spent several crores
b. Money back into economy
c. Process continues….

Corruption and Economics: A corrupt official does
a. Invest in farm/house /etc., several working class people get to earn their living
b. Channel that money into real estate and stock market…. artificial appreciation…BSE reaches 13000 and collapses to 9000 ….(here catch is that most FIIs exited partially before collapse…so in turn that money went to International funds)
c. His/her kids ponder that money…..
d. Buy expensive items…good for economy
e. Pays politician to get required posting/support…..well refer back

I have to get back to work….but would want to think through following as well some time

Religion (to be more specific, Caste system, dowry etc.) and Economics
Literacy (Illiteracy) and Economics
Time (no quick fix) and Economics
NRI and Economics (Indian)

Currency ($) and Economics
When your family members in India spend your $ (prefer $ over money), some portion of it trickles down to poorer masses in some form. So, do send $ to your family in India, if not for charity. It will help…..I am doing my part as well

 

[techy2468]

some more facts(my family is experiencing all this as of now):

1. power cut for more than 2-3 hours at a stretch....all refrigeration goes to dumps..
2. water supply is getting badly affected....there is no surity of a assured quantity
3. more begger, eunuch etc on the street.
4. safety is still the same for women after dark
5. traffic and pollution has grown twice.
6. politicians implementing non business friendly rules to get more votes
7. 30% of the population is still below poverty line(the poverty line is something like rs.454.11/month (i hope its per month...not per year))

i am sure if i was to define poverty line....as getting a nutritional food, clothing and shelter......it will be atleast rs. 3000/month........which will put 60% of india below poverty line.


for those guys who feel hurt when we talk bad about india.....i dont even understand why you cannot accept facts....

india is my homeland....no denying it.....its my ultimate backup plan........but that does not mean i will sing praise.....i am glad things are getting better.......but i want to live in reality....that things are still 10 times worse than i want it to be....for a normal human life.....

 

[pipedream]

Whatever...

This is an interesting debate, I almost want to say we should stop debating but I think I want to hear both sides so I can sit tightly and judge people besides I may or may not make a decision about going back to India like every one on this forum. But really there is no point in discussing about it. We should agree to disagree! You can only tell something to a person that he already knows.

I would have been happily
1) Admiring politicians though they are the reason of our downfall
2) Busy carefully watching two different countries playing soccer in another different country, none of these countries would be India and I would probably hate those countries any way
3) Going to those hideous make-no-sense movies, idol worshipping those idiot, brain-less, have-no-idea-about-acting actors
4) talking at length about cell phone companies and would have fallen in love with the company that made my cell phone and would have hated other cell phone companies that made my friends' phones
5) Showing my patriotism by going crazy in the street yelling "mera bhath mahan" at the top of my voice, trashing around the streets when India won some freaking cricket match
6) Hating north Indians just because I was born in south India
7) Loving all my relatives and people from my caste
8) Respecting my parents as much as the amount I would inherit
9) Hating every other developed country out of jealousy
10) Walking on clouds overwhelmed with all the development (?) in India

Hadn't I seen/lived in a different developed country! I am not going back and better yet I am not changing my opinion because somebody's post here made sense. But if I have to go back, I would, and I would try to adept. Society always wants an individual to be a part of it, if you cannot accept it, society won't accept you.

 

[michael_holding]

pipedream,
the things that you list here, are all the things that you do/did in India??
or is this something that you think an average Indian does, in other words are you stereotyping an average indian?

quite frankly some of the points you list are personal human characteristics , that spans country,race,religion,skin colour...etc. not just in india.

 

[akela]

Guys can we go easy on either Indian bashing or US bashing please!!

It is your decision in the end to live anywhere you like. Neither of the place is either hell or heaven. So then it comes to personal reasons to live at each places. Last time I checked 1400 million people lived in either countries. Surely both should be livable.

rgds,
akela

 

[gcstrat]

Facts??

Techy2468

There are many other facts besides what you have listed - why are you not accepting that?

Why do you want India's problems to be your reasons to be here?

I can give many "negative" facts about USA - would that make you leave USA?

Where do we start?

Abu Ghraib, anyone?
Katrina, anyone?
Corruption at high places - Ambramoff, DeLay, anyone?
Corruption at high places - no bid contracts to Haliburton, anyone?
Corruption at high places - what about re-districting, anyone?
Corruption at high places - Lying about Iraq, anyone?
Corruption at high places - energy policy dictated by oil companies, anyone?
Corruption at high places - why is the seniors drug plan not administered by medicare, anyone?
Corruption at high places - Protective tariffs on steel imports, which only had to be removed after WTO members threathened sanctions, anyone?
Corruption in regular life - why was Sarbanes-Oxley (SOX) enacted, anyone?
Partisan politics - leaking sensitive information to score political points, anyone?
Vote-bank politics - making comments in favour of "Intelligent Design" when even Vatican accepts "Evolution", anyone?
Vote-bank politics - not accepting medical facts about gays, anyone?
Vote-bank politics - $500 BILLION subsidy to FARMERS to get votes, anyone?
Vote-bank politics - Alaska's bridge to NOWHERE, anyone?
Vote-bank politics - Faith based funding programs, anyone?
Vote-bank politics - Global warming does not exists, anyone?
Vote-bank politics - environment be damped, anyone?
Vote-bank politics - why were certain voters not allowed to vote, anyone?
Poverty - 13% of Americans are below poverty
Poverty - 44 million americans - about 15% of population - without health insurance
Poverty - 90 million americans below 200% poverty levels
Poverty - top 1% of Americans has more wealth than bottom 90% of Americans, anyone?

I can go on and on ...

So, will this make you leave USA?

Regards
GCStrat

 

[techy2468]

enough with words....lets start shooting now...

gcstrat....so you mean usa is not good enough...and india is a great place.....when are you leaving?

why are you still waiting and waiting for your GC (if you have got GC please excuse us, you are not even supposed to participate in this debate....since it does not affect you).


one can go on and on.....but still not make the other stand.......even though the fact is on the ground....with so many skilled people still moving to this place in spite of all the trouble they have to go through....

so many people still waiting for their GC even though usa gives them a damn......

and still people have a point that india is great......or it is even comparable to a developed country....

i do not want to talk about whats going to happen 20 years from now....i can clearly see the things that exist of now....and i can see where we are headed in the next 3-5 years.....

and to keep the record straight.....america is not utopia...so pls dont mention katrina in New orleans and war in iraq......keep to things that affect your life.....

 

[GaramChai2go]

enough with words....lets start shooting now...

gcstrat....so you mean usa is not good enough...and india is a great place.....when are you leaving?

why are you still waiting and waiting for your GC (if you have got GC please excuse us, you are not even supposed to participate in this debate....since it does not affect you).

Maybe he wants you to leave.......

 

[indone]

Simple question to you: If a person get murdered in India, what is the possibility that the criminal will ever be caught and punished (for 13 yrs)?

same as finding a missing person in any country that you have visited or stayed

 

[techy2468]

Guys can we go easy on either Indian bashing or US bashing please!!

It is your decision in the end to live anywhere you like. Neither of the place is either hell or heaven. So then it comes to personal reasons to live at each places. Last time I checked 1400 million people lived in either countries. Surely both should be livable.

rgds,
akela

akela i do agree with you that there are hundred personal reasons why one chooses to live here...

i would live in india for the sake of my family and friends any day......if i was a millionaire...

but if we take that aside.....and try to compare the life of a human being......the reason why india is still a developing(third world ) country....and not a developed country.....

the reason why people have to become eunuchs to make a living...why they harass the common people.....on every traffic junction in delhi and mumbai...

why do you see thousands of people begging in every town and city ???

 

[indone]

i would live in india for the sake of my family and friends any day......if i was a millionaire...

but if we take that aside.....and try to compare the life of a human being......the reason why india is still a developing(third world ) country....and not a developed country.....

the reason why people have to become eunuchs to make a living...why they harass the common people.....on every traffic junction in delhi and mumbai...

why do you see thousands of people begging in every town and city ???

you are being extremely harsh and judgemental on a topic which you have NO power to control NOR do you have adequate knowledge.

People don't become Eunuchs to make a living...they do it for the same reason that some prefer a gender change...call it hormones. Have u seen any bisexuals or transexuals in India.

How can you see "thousands" of people begging in every town and city? Every metropolitan city in the world has the same percentage of beggars. You see more in India because the population is more.


If education and cost of living was as high as in US would you have ever reached here to start this thread? Incidentally the reason you reached this level is becuase of the knowledge you gained in India....Did you know that education is cheap in India because of govt subsidy? Have you given any thing to your alma mater?

Why don't you for a change say something nice about India?

I would say Please don't GO to india till you can make a difference there. There is NO point going there with a million bucks to flaunt your wealth in Bangalore.Don't be myopic like Arundati Roy ( Anti-Nuclear), VP Singh ( Mandal Commission) Medha Patkar..just to name a few.

 

[where_is_my_gc]

akela i do agree with you that there are hundred personal reasons why one chooses to live here...

i would live in india for the sake of my family and friends any day......if i was a millionaire...

but if we take that aside.....and try to compare the life of a human being......the reason why india is still a developing(third world ) country....and not a developed country.....

the reason why people have to become eunuchs to make a living...why they harass the common people.....on every traffic junction in delhi and mumbai...

why do you see thousands of people begging in every town and city ???

you can only pretend as if you are like them and enjoying every bit of it being in this country. The fact is you are here only for certain privileges that you chose out of so many of them - left unrealized in your country. You'd still stink like an outsider devoid of oneself - the trueself.


and pls. dont refer to India as third world country - make your own dictionary if you can make sense of itself or stop referring someone elses'

 

[gctome]

akela i do agree with you that there are hundred personal reasons why one chooses to live here...

i would live in india for the sake of my family and friends any day......if i was a millionaire...

but if we take that aside.....and try to compare the life of a human being......the reason why india is still a developing(third world ) country....and not a developed country.....

the reason why people have to become eunuchs to make a living...why they harass the common people.....on every traffic junction in delhi and mumbai...

why do you see thousands of people begging in every town and city ???

Techy, you are sounding bit too harsh. Don't forget your roots if you are really from one of them. I still wonder though.

probably you have not lived India enough! I pity you!!

 

[indone]

Quick Fixes

some more facts(my family is experiencing all this as of now):
Problem and Solutions
1. power cut for more than 2-3 hours at a stretch....all refrigeration goes to dumps..Buy a 5.5 KVA generator it costs Rs 20,000..($ 500)
2. water supply is getting badly affected....there is no surity of a assured quantity. Buy a water filter..it costs $100
3. more begger, eunuch etc on the street.Stay in a gated community..or shift to a diffrent city
4. safety is still the same for women after dark.Don't send your women alone esp in the dark...be chivalrous call a cab or accompany them
5. traffic and pollution has grown twice.Invest in a GPS.( Yes.. you get digitised maps of all cities in India.) Block roads that are crowded
6. politicians implementing non business friendly rules to get more votes.Goodness...how can you be so generic. Are you part of the mafia
7. 30% of the population is still below poverty line(the poverty line is something like rs.454.11/month (i hope its per month...not per year))Assuming your figures are correct that means $10 for a month...and they still survive..man the cost of living must be really ..really low. I was told that the minimum salary was Rs 800 a month...and the minimum wages for skilled labour was Rs 120 per 8 hr shift..

i am sure if i was to define poverty line....as getting a nutritional food, clothing and shelter......it will be atleast rs. 3000/month........which will put 60% of india below poverty line.Let me assure you..you can live a dignified life for Rs 3000 if you don't have any vices.


for those guys who feel hurt when we talk bad about india.....i dont even understand why you cannot accept facts....

india is my homeland....no denying it.....its my ultimate backup plan........but that does not mean i will sing praise.....i am glad things are getting better.......but i want to live in reality....that things are still 10 times worse than i want it to be....for a normal human life.....

Have patience...the study by India today shows that by 2025 India WILL be a global power. I believe it will be sooner. The irreversible move back to India has started. A number of people are going back to set up businesses in India...afterall it is a part of the global evolution. Just compare the progress with the total years of independance.

 

[techy2468]

we can go on and on.....but the point being:

why are we, thousands of well qualified, skilled professionals......want to settle down in usa even though usa does not care....(i am only talking about people who have come to usa in the last 3-4 years....who have started gc process in the last 2 years....lets say...thousands on EB3-india-2003 and later PD).


for me...all the reasons i have been saying are the reason why i want GC of usa....and why it frustrates me when i hear of Reservation, water shortage, pollution, traffic etcc happening in india even today...

i guess, there is no point if some one says great things, reality will always remain reality, if i have to go.....i will go....and i will learn to live with all that.....and if life permits i will do something to bring a change...

 

[Akbari]

Any comment ?

What is the worst fear in life ? Death.. right ?

If I go back to India, my chances of getting killed in communal riot is higher than getting killed in any other way.

But still, I would love to go back to India and resettle if I have to.

Despite all problems, there will be no substitute for motherland. PERIOD.

Please thank God for what you have and if you can not help, pray for the well being of India and its people.

Vande Mataram.

 

[GreenCardVirus]

Techy2468

There are many other facts besides what you have listed - why are you not accepting that?

Why do you want India's problems to be your reasons to be here?

I can give many "negative" facts about USA - would that make you leave USA?

Where do we start?
GCStrat

This line of thinking is suitable if we are comparing USA to say Australia.


Reminds me of something - the most stupidest thing a typical person from India says when asked about the state of women in India -- "India had a female PM, US never had one" --as if a woma PM/CM reflects state of women in India or not having one reflects their state in US.

If you want to compare US to India, talk in terms of percentage. % Educated, % Hungry, %Crime solved, % of politicians corrupt, % who live beyond 60.

Frankly, in areas like human quality, I don't see India catching up soon.

In my opinion, the simplest reason why people want to move and live in US -- they just want to escape (like me)

 

[techy2468]

indone....it took usa more than 150 years after independence to be where it is now......its been only 59 years for india.... another 90+ to go...

gctome......i have seen so much india...that it hurts.... you need to visit the villages of UP, Bihar & MP to know what i am talking about....

infact visit to any town in those states will open your eyes to the reality...

you need to travel in DTC (delhi transport Corp) to know how women are treated....

you need to wait near traffic junctions..in a two wheeler..in the smoke and heat....and beggers almost threatning you...

you need to complete Mbbs or bachelor of dental science....and then try to figure out what specialisation to do so that you can get a job of rs.10k

you need to write IIT-JEE or any other entrance...and then realise ...only 50% seats are available for you....

and the most important....you need to spend $70k for a property.....in which a family of 3 can barely live (compared to living housing in anyt developed country)

i think i can go on and on....i am not saying usa is perfect.....but as i said it is not utopia....and it is good enough that a skilled person can make a decent living with his hard work..

of course....being in india...you need to suffer at the hands of govt employees.......god forbid...if you get disabled...you will know how good of social security is there to help you and your family....