Spam:Can't I go on vacation? No...FBI

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Sri4GC

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Today one guy, claiming that he is from FBI, knocked at my door. I got really puzzled by this thinking that it has something to do with my 2FP recently done and results are already sent to CSC 3 weeks ago. :eek:

This guy came in and began enquiring my name, address, car info and where I was during memorial weekend etc. Surprisingly, this guy has all my information where I landed first time in the US, my status, all my addresses and contacts from then on, even my car information. So I was wondering what might have happened. I asked him the same then he said we got a call from Ferry people regarding you (friend & myself). :confused:

I have to tell you something about what we did during memorial weekend before going any further. During memorial weekend we went to Martha's Vineyard (an island near Boston) in a Ferry. We, 3 people, tried to go on saturday but by the time we reached there Ferry already left so I gathered all the information like timings, whether we need to reserve tickets etc and came back. We, 2 people other guy couldn't make it, went again on the next day and took photos in the Ferry, no where it is written that 'no photographs', visited the island, had a good time and came back on the same day. :cool:

Now, this guy from FBI says Ferry people were suspicious about us because on the first day 3 people came enquiring all the details and on the next day only 2 people came and took photos in the Ferry. I explained him the situation clearly saying that we gathered all the information just to make sure that we don't miss it next time and can properly plan our trip. :eek:

He asked my friend to show his picture id, employer details and status. When it comes to my turn he asked me whether I am over staying because my h1 expired last year September. He has information till my last H1 but no GC information. I tried to explain him that I applied for GC and now I am in AOS so I am legal. He doesn't seem to understand it that well but finally he said 'I don't care even if you are illegal'. :(

Nowadays, I really have a hard time explaining my status because I am neither on a visa nor a green card holder. Generally, people ask me whether I have a valid visa or a green card. The answer is 'no' to both. Not many people seem to know about this in between status AOS thing. :confused:

He asked me whether we are muslims or go to mosque. We are not, of course. He wanted to see what pictures we have taken and left his business card with us. So we need to call and show him the pictures we have taken as soon as they are ready. :rolleyes:

Holy crap!!! I can't ask anybody any details, I can't enjoy my vacation and I can't even take photos. What kind of democracy is it? The reason for this posting is, this might happen to anyone so be careful when you are going out. Sometimes, seemingly innocuous things turn out to be troublesome so please refrain from getting into any sort of trouble. :(

Will there be any negative implications to my GC regarding this? Your comments are welcome. :)

Thanks,
Sri
 
Sri4GC said:
Will there be any negative implications to my GC regarding this? Your comments are welcome. :)
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Sri, this is tragic and embarassing for you, this forum and the whole country. The current administration has perpetuated such a climate of fear that a simple personal vacation turned into a scary ordeal for you. I can't believe a couple of Ferry ticket sellers actually called the FBI about something so innocuous.

Given that you did absolutely nothing wrong and were never arrested or charged with any crime, I don't see what impact it would have on your I-485 case.

One point you make is very important. The absence of either a Visa or GC status for many of us has profound social and economic impact. When I applied recently to refinance my mortgage, there was a question "Are you a Permanent Resident"... well, I have resided here permanently and legally since the early 1990s in visa status, and my case is going to be adjudicated soon, so I didn't answer yes or no, I put "pending". Of course, the mortgage company did not understand that, so I needed a letter from my lawyer and copies of all USCIS notices to explain the fact. I then checked "No". Very frustrating when I consider that I have paid enough in taxes here in over ten years to pay the annual salaries of at least three IIOs.

Perhaps "AOS Pending" should become a more legitimized status, at least on paper, with the issuance of a card showing Permanent Residency pending - an adjunct to the EAD and AP documents.

They can always revoke it, but at least it wouldn't rob good people of 2-3 years of peace of mind and social and economic freedom.
 
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wik said:
Perhaps "AOS Pending" should become a more legitimized status, at least on paper, with the issuance of a card showing Permanent Residency pending - an adjunct to the EAD and AP documents.

They can always revoke it, but at least it wouldn't rob good people of 2-3 years of peace of mind and social and economic freedom.
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Wik...Thanks for your suggestions and comments. I agree with you. Security measures can not be an excuse to harass innocent people and malhandling the situation.
 
I am not sure that you were actually harassed. At least your account leaves an impression that that FBI guy was a professional. BTW you talked to him as an act of your free will, I guess the only thing probably that stopped you from refusing this interview was that you want your green card application to go smoothly so you decided to talk "just in case". I strongly doubt that in India , Pakistan, China
and other our home countries the secret services are as polite. Maybe this is the reason why we are very uncomfortable with secret services in the first place.

It is certainly true that if FBI guy wanted to harass you he would not say "I don't care if you are illegal".

Anyway, regardles of whether you agree or diagree with me this encounter should not affect you and your petition at all. Relax, everything should be fine!

P.S. In the height of IRA bombings in UK guys with Irish accent were stopped quite regularly for a smaller reason than yours...

P.P.S. I would certainly prefer us to talk to FBI than see a ferry or a commersial airplane to be overtaken by terrorists (no offence to the Muslim participants of this forum- I do not distniguish people by there nationality or religion. The percentage of m***f******s is the same in every nation)
 
Much as I sympathize with Sri' predicament and would not like the same happen to me I sort if agree with jadwins assesment. I think our dislike for agents of the government have a lot to do with how we saw them in our countries of origin. In many cases we saw them as corrupt and coarse people who would trample on our dignity with impunity.
From your post it seems like the FBI guy was professional and treated you with the dignity that all individuals deserve. He was doing his job and from your account doing it well.
It was also heartening to know that the security sytem works to some extent. - Though I doubt that if the same questions had been asked by people of color other than the of Sri ( I am assuming brown of course) it would have raised the suspicions of anyone.
Whats really sad is this whole climate of fear that targets people of a certain color or nationality.
 
Interesting that the ferry CSR actually recognised you the next day. Here in the bay area, with so many immigrants, I would think a busy ticket seller would have to be really really paranoid to actually remember another immigrant's face.

While I understand the sentiments of a couple of people who have posted in this thread that it is better to be safe than sorry, the question you should be asking yourselves is, "Would it have happened if Sri was white?". There is no law that says only brown people are terrorists. Something you should do if so inclined is to send a letter to the ferry writing about this discrimination. And at the same time spreading this story to friends and colleagues, to not go to such places where this kind of racial profiling happens. It was lucky that you got way with a 'kind' FBI officer, but the matter could have taken a much graver turn if he had been hard nosed and mean like other cases that we have heard off.

This is something you should send to your local reporter. Because paranoia is not really an answer to security. Benjamin Franklin once said, "If you give your freedom for security, you end up with neither freedom nor security". Security is well and good but not if it is racially motivated.
 
You know, 140 takes forever, I am white and i was interviewed by FBI as well a couple of years ago. I am not sure who is more paranid here: ferry workers
or those who cry "race discrimination" at any opportunity.

It is true that foreigners are always stand out in a crowd, so I guess somewhat similar (oversuspicious clerk) could happen if I go to India, Central Asia, Africa, etc. Bottom line: I am pretty sure that a few years from now when we all (let us dream :)) get citizenship we will not pay as much attention to those FBI guys. They are just doing their job anyway.

The faster we blend into this country (buy good houses in good areas,
get a excellent job security with wellpaying job, etc) the less we will stand out.
I know many excellent Indian / Pakistani doctors and other professionals who have lived here for many years. I don't think that people care about their skin color.
I certainly don't :)
 
Let me post what happened to my very good friend in Boston (March 2004).
this guy, a permanent resident, was planning to go back to india end of march to get married and settle down and also take care of his parents. he had been living in Boston for 9 years and working for a very prestigious bio-tech company. so he was filming the ships (specifically a oil / natural gas super tanker) entering boston harbor, the city skyline and other landmarks. he was also recording a running commentary, for his fiance.

less than 4 minutes in to the video shoot, a coast guard vessel flashed a light at him. he just ignored it and continued to film. in the next few minutes there were 4 marked and unmarked police cars next to him and 7 officers surrounded him with their weapons drawn.

They took the video camera from him and patted him for any weapons and started questioning him. our hero did not carry a wallet - it was at his work place and he had walked down. fortunately he had his company badge and remebered his DL # and allso his A#.

they asked him everything about his stay, employment history and verified evry thing he said. They were very polite, but the whole deal was so embarassing for him. he was also so shaken when 7 officers pointed their weapons at him.

When he asked them what he had done wrong, they just said they received credible threats that ships - especially oil tankers were likely targets. the coast guard vessel was actually escorting the ship. they replayed the recording and let him go after almost 2 hours of questioning. one of them also gave my friend a ride back to his work place.

now he is happily married and works for TCS. TCS wanted him to come back to the USA. He told them he would quit if they forced him to step in the USA.
 
We have to wait for the time when the sanity will return. But I don't think we will come out from these orange/yellow colors until the Nov election.

BTW, not all the terrotists are foreigners. Timothy McVeigh, Terry Nichols are born Americans.
 
They are lucky

pralay said:
BTW, not all the terrotists are foreigners. Timothy McVeigh, Terry Nichols are born Americans.
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Imagine if a government agency does to Americans (white men, in particular) what they are doing to us. They will go to the CSC, go on rampage shooting, or bulldoze the CSC building. That's how US-born white men settle their frustration. They are lucky that we are basically peaceful people, who don't resort to violence.
 
Sumata said:
Imagine if a government agency does to Americans (white men, in particular) what they are doing to us. They will go to the CSC, go on rampage shooting, or bulldoze the CSC building. That's how US-born white men settle their frustration. They are lucky that we are basically peaceful people, who don't resort to violence.
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That's where civil liberty begins or ends. In many countries (including India where I came from) they put "do not take picture" in major transportation systems, dams and important public buildings. If in America if they could stick notice like that, sri4GC or lslamp's friend would not have to go through this kind of harassments. But America is the country of freedom. So everybody is free do anything - including taking picture in harbor. Then here comes the selective restriction - if you look like south asian/middle eastern and you are video-taping ships, then your are a suspect. How many of us remember the harassment in special registration period? Ironically that time some of my friends/colleagues from India were supporter of special registration. Some supported silently saying "that's not our problem". Some were very vocal. I heard some casual comments like that "muslims are cancers of every country. all the muslims should go though this kind of registration - in every country -including India.".
Well...next...wait for Patriot Act II.
 
In this country, One must indeed look at the color of skin before acting
stupid.

You gotta be careful when doing certain things. Like taking pictures or
video shooting of certain important locations. Especially where people
will not be taking any pictures.

Like if you are taking pictures of Alcatraz from a distance, FBI is not
gonna come knocking on your door. Why? Bcos everybody is doing it. Duh!

I have attempted pretty stupid things. Like, going to Pentagon and asking
them if I could have a tour of the facility. I then took some pictures of the
Pentagon bldg when they said there are no freakin tours. :eek:. There is one
of a marine holding a machine gun at the facility. The marine thought that
was pretty amusing.

Now why did the FBI not come knocking on my door? I think there might be
a reason to it. I was with my wife and we looked like a bunch of crazy
tourists.

My advice to our desi brothers is this. Get yourself a significant other.
Or a girlfriend and go out with her. A white gf may actually work wonders
for you. You can take pictures of even a nuclear reactor if you want.

Everytime I look out the window I see five desi dudes in a corolla. That
makes you look like you are on some terrorist mission. And for chris sakes
stop being obsessed over those digital cameras and camcorders. Just because
you bought a 50 Mega Pixel camera does not mean you must take picture
of every goddamn thing that you see in your sight. And if you do, then
don't come and lament on this forum that you can't take a vacation in this
country.

You know. I am surprised that this FBI guy didn't put you in jail. If it was
Mumbai, you would be locked up in jail under TADA and then you would
have been subjected to third degree for a night before your lawyer even
got to you. In case you need full details about Third degree in a Mumbai
lockup please do sure let me know your emails here. I would be glad to
educate you on the matter.
 
desi-bartender said:
You gotta be careful when doing certain things. Like taking pictures or
video shooting of certain important locations. Especially where people
will not be taking any pictures.

Like if you are taking pictures of Alcatraz from a distance, FBI is not
gonna come knocking on your door. Why? Bcos everybody is doing it. Duh!
Click to expand...

First of all, FYI, Martha's Vineward is indeed is tourist place (just like Alkartaz). So it's quite natural and common that people will take picture in, on or near the ferry that goes to this island.
Secondly, doing something different or something that most don't do does make it "stupid".
I was a member of a photographics club in Los Angeles and in club tour we used to take pictures in every corner of LA downtown or LA terminal. Did we look stupid? Did we look terrorist?


desi-bartender said:
Everytime I look out the window I see five desi dudes in a corolla. That
makes you look like you are on some terrorist mission. And for chris sakes
stop being obsessed over those digital cameras and camcorders. Just because
you bought a 50 Mega Pixel camera does not mean you must take picture
of every goddamn thing that you see in your sight.
Click to expand...

Quite stereotype! When I moved to LA I was told that if four black/hispanic young guys are in a car, they are gangster/drug dealers. Quite stereotype! All desi people buy corolla. Quite stereotype (probably)! Only desi people travel with digital camera/camcorders/gadgets. Quite stereotype (indeed)!
 
SriGC,
Sorry that you had to go through this session..The FBI guy was just doing his job, i.e. follow-up on a reporting by some guy who did not have anythign much to do or who just wanted to harass a "brown skinned" guy or who was genuinely concerned.
The bone that you have to pick up with is the Ferry folks. You have to tell their management that you did nothing suspicious since Martha's vineyard is a tourist spot and that you had every right, as a tourist who intended to use ther ferry service, to inquire about the timings, etc. If the "ferry" authorities did not want to disclose information, they should have told you directly. Instead their action of sneaking and giving wrong information such as "indulging in suspicious activities" tantamounts to indirect harassment. Just drop in a word called legal redress of discrimination and civil liberties. Also you canwrite a letter to Boston globe or your local newspaper that is willing to atleast read your letter.
I do not blame the FBI , but just hope they can atthe least understand basic immigration terms given that immigration is an important part of national security.
 
Pralay,
Dude. The point I am making is that you can take as many pictures as you
want when there is everybody taking pictures. LA downtown is no problem.
And neither is LAX.

But things changed after 9/11 and you have to agree to that. Its not the
same anymore. So in these days every brown skin guy is from middle east.
There are very stupid people in this country too who are very jumpy and
might think the worst. That is what happenned here.

The problem is with a profile. You have to exercise your wisdom and think.
What makes us look like terrorists and what doesn't. Having a woman on
your side makes that risk go away almost instantly. Unless you are Mossad
you won't easily judge a man with a woman as terrorist risk. My point to
desi bachelors is that do include women on your trip if you can. And be a
little discreet in your photographic ventures. Some people are too nosy
too. That could be a problem too. Sometimes communication is a problem.

Trust me. I have travelled a lot after 9/11. I can see lot of change in this
country since then. Been mistaken as someone from middle east a few
times. The onus is on you to not look suspicious.

I mean, you have to agree with me. Five desis in corolla will be taken to
the side on San Francisco Golden gate bridge during heightened security
alert as happenned to few pakistani blokes who landed in jail for no good
reason.

And an average desi is usually armed to teeth with the latest mobile phone,
latest canon or sony digital camera and latest sony or digital camcorder.
To some average American who has never seen such gadgets it can be
really intimidating. The trick is to blend in with the average population.
Now its hard to do that when your skin color is brown but trust me its not
difficult. Blending in means just getting the typical American look. Maybe
you want to emulate a smart looking American which is a rare breed. Coming
from India I am apalled at the dress sense of Average american guy but you
can try and dress like an average smart American guy if you understand
what I mean.

This may make me look like snooty bastard which actually I am but I am
sure you agree that I am speaking the truth. I came to USA the same way
as you guys did and trust me I know everything about 5 bachelors in a
corolla as I used to be in one. In couple of years you just change. When
in Rome think like the Romans. Problem is many desis just won't change.

And for godsake just throw in some American accent. Is it just so hard?
I use that a lot with Americans and just switch to my native when I am
talking with Indians.

Just be smart, look smart and beat the streotype and you will be fine.
Its the post 9/11 world and its different. We gotta make some effort
to not look like terrorists.
 
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From my perspective desi-bartender, that shows a complete lack of self respect. For hell I won't change my accent to talk to americans. Could I get any lower than that. The idea is to express yourself intelligibly to people. Yes for that if I need to talk slower - enunciate more - fine. But why put on this horrible neither here nor there accent
And again from where I stand - Wear decent clothes, drive a land rover/bmw or whatever be the car of the snooties - But dont grovel to be accepted.
There are many subcultures here which have assimilated not by changing their accents or clothes. Rather I would think they worked in the community, played the sports that others did - contributed to the community made friends there....
 
Well I posted this information just to let others be aware of the innocuous situations that turn out to be troblesome. I started this thread with a good intention so please add value to it constructively if you can otherwise please keep quiet. It is neither lamenting nor looking for any stupid logic that is no good for either you or me.

Mr. desi-bartender, I appreciate your knowledge and wisdom on post 9/11 events and Americal lifestyle. You have every right to voice your opinion and expose your intelligence or stupidity, whatever. I have read several posts by you earlier, your attitude is rather bullish in many of them. So I take that as your characteristic and gracefully ignore your postings. I don't think a detailed reply is necessary for your postings. So here you go.

I have been in the US for a long time and I never faced this situation till now. For God's sake Martha's Vineyard is a tourist place. Dude I don't have to get a gf I have my wife. Man we have a BMW and don't have a mobile/digital camera either. Bro I know that you have profound knowledge of third degree methods in Mumbai jails. I don't think I need that information ever in my life, anyway I appreciate your generosity in sharing information.

For all others thanks for being constructive.
 
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the bottomline is that you have nothing to fear about if you are not a terrorist (or have criminal intent...) and/or don't have contact (Unbeknownst or not) with terrorists.
 
Mr. desi bartender might have drifted a bit or have suggested few extreme steps like putting on accent, but overall message he is conveying is not stupid or non-sensical.

We do need to understand what a "free country" means. They would do
anything to protect their country and important installations from
suspicious looking characters. Hell No, we cant take pictures at all the
places. We must use our judgement as to what is appropriate in a situation.
We cant be agnostic to our surroundings and claim to be doing anything
under the blanket of "my right to do so". Yes, it might be your right and in
all likelihood you will not be arrested or penalized. But, hell yes, they can
grill you for hours in a police station as it is their right and duty to do so.

Also, if a group of desi guys stands out for what so ever reasons, it may be
inviting trouble. Again, its good to have sense of culture of the land and
and to be discernible of what is acceptable and what is not.

Whole idea is if we have to live in this country, learning their culture and
imbibing few of them is not a bad idea. Somebody claiming that he does not
need to learn anything in this country might be unjustified oversimplification.
 
Very contrary to the home of the brave, land of the free, if you can't really be free to do what you want, when you want. If you are not really free then why keep talking about it? I can understand security measures, as long as they are uniform but if they are not then there is a serious problem.

This has a lot more to do with Racial profiling as compared to true threat perceived. When I fly, I don't mind going through the extra level of security of being frisked, just because the gentleman next to me, who is a 80 year old white man with a texan accent is running through the same hoops as me. But if they did that to me and other brown folks only, I would be calling my lawyer pretty darn quick and will never use those facilities again.

Gotto go with Greenback as far as self-respect is concerned. I speak slower or more clearly if required, but anything other than that is pseudo. If I feel at any point of time America's ideology and mine is diverging beyond a certain acceptable limit, then that is when it is time to pack my bags and move. If enough educated/qualified people leave, there goes America's competitiveness and technological superiority. So far the pickings have been good. Much better than what would have been in our home country and that is the reason we are all here. But the moment that changes it is bye bye.
 
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