Kwame o,sometimes u comment like a judge or like a secaretary workin under Mr white,but i know u re not.U need to look at the issues on ground before commentin?Now if u say that there is nothin wrong to reinstate the ex-22k and a fresh redrawer to be done for the rest loser,NOBODY here is againts that pls get that?what is wrong if the ex-22k is included the random redrawer, after all it would be on a fair ground if every qualified entry is included in the redrawer?Is it a crime also for the ex-22k to be among the qualified entry for a random redrawer?
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Should 14million plus dv2012 applicants not ramdoly sellected file petision?
- Thread starter Obama
- Start date
@Kwame, do u have the slightest idea that this re-draw has taken place already and they have selected a new 100,000 winners (some ex 22k winners included)? How would it be fair for DOS to cut of about 22k people from the new 100,000 winners again so as to accomodate the ex 22k? I have a feeling that this error DOS claimed it was Computer glitch was actually a human/Company manipulation but they don't want to admit it. Everything about these DV 2012 is just messed, and IMO to resolve these problem is just a re-draw! U guys remember that it was actually about 100,000 pple were selected on May 1st? So what wrong did they do? Because they were not fast enough to check their results the first week? Now, nobody is even talking about that, all they talk about is 22k winners as if that was the normal number of winners the computer selects.
P.S: 23 days to July 15, and nothing on this earth will change that for God is with us!
P.S: 23 days to July 15, and nothing on this earth will change that for God is with us!
@Arekee, I appreciate the fact that you know that I neither a judge or a secretary for Mr. White. I have tried to be objective--I personally know two people affected by this decision--one won and the other did not.
Most of my comments are based on a careful consideration of the situation on the ground. It may not be a crime for the "ex-22k winners" to be included in the redraw, but Dos decision to invalidate their results has created possibly civil liabilities-- negligent misrepresentation, intentional misrepresentation, promissory estoppel, intentional emotional distress-- all depending how you argue them.
@Dubbies, you just gave one possible outcome : "re-draw has taken place already and they have selected a new 100,000 winners (some ex 22k winners included)" But there could There be other outcomes in the redraw :
1. none of the "ex-22k winners" would be or have been selected
2. all of the "ex-22k winners" were or have been selected
3. majority of the "ex-22k winners" were or have been selected
4. few of the "ex-22k" winners were or have been selected
So I think you should consider these possible outcomes as well. If you want, I can elaborate on the consequence of each possible outcome in the new draw.
I am appreciate your admission that "everything about the DV2012 is just messed." However, the only way to resolve it, is not just a redraw. Hypothetically, there is a re-draw, but what about those who lost their confirmation numbers but did and have not receive any email from KCC about their confirmation numbers? That is also not fair because some people have received their confirmation numbers while others have not.
About the 100,000 selectees on May 1, my simple answer is this: if you claim you have a right or entitled to something just prove it. So if those who did not know they have won can prove that,then thats fine and if those "ex-22k winners" can proof that also, then thats fine. But all of them must able able show ample evidence.
About God, I am glad you said "God is with us." But do know some of "ex-winners" also believe in God are probably praying that "God should fight this battle for them"?--So as much as you pray that nothing change July 15, I bet some of the "ex-winners" are also praying for themselves--but above ALL God's WILL should be done about this lottery.
Whether July 15 will change or not, I dont know. But humanly speaking, DoS can prevent all the hullabaloo about the new draw and the "ex-22k winners" with just TWO simple words: REINSTATE but still REDRAW.
Most of my comments are based on a careful consideration of the situation on the ground. It may not be a crime for the "ex-22k winners" to be included in the redraw, but Dos decision to invalidate their results has created possibly civil liabilities-- negligent misrepresentation, intentional misrepresentation, promissory estoppel, intentional emotional distress-- all depending how you argue them.
@Dubbies, you just gave one possible outcome : "re-draw has taken place already and they have selected a new 100,000 winners (some ex 22k winners included)" But there could There be other outcomes in the redraw :
1. none of the "ex-22k winners" would be or have been selected
2. all of the "ex-22k winners" were or have been selected
3. majority of the "ex-22k winners" were or have been selected
4. few of the "ex-22k" winners were or have been selected
So I think you should consider these possible outcomes as well. If you want, I can elaborate on the consequence of each possible outcome in the new draw.
I am appreciate your admission that "everything about the DV2012 is just messed." However, the only way to resolve it, is not just a redraw. Hypothetically, there is a re-draw, but what about those who lost their confirmation numbers but did and have not receive any email from KCC about their confirmation numbers? That is also not fair because some people have received their confirmation numbers while others have not.
About the 100,000 selectees on May 1, my simple answer is this: if you claim you have a right or entitled to something just prove it. So if those who did not know they have won can prove that,then thats fine and if those "ex-22k winners" can proof that also, then thats fine. But all of them must able able show ample evidence.
About God, I am glad you said "God is with us." But do know some of "ex-winners" also believe in God are probably praying that "God should fight this battle for them"?--So as much as you pray that nothing change July 15, I bet some of the "ex-winners" are also praying for themselves--but above ALL God's WILL should be done about this lottery.
Whether July 15 will change or not, I dont know. But humanly speaking, DoS can prevent all the hullabaloo about the new draw and the "ex-22k winners" with just TWO simple words: REINSTATE but still REDRAW.
ToomCraigy
Banned
How about that - DOS reinstates all winners who have NL1 (that's 22 000), but issues them visa numbers starting with 70 000. Lawsuit kicks the bucket next day, and visa numbers most likely won't go that high anyway so 22 000 are still pwned.
being selected first but getting an interview last? talk about logic...
How about that - DOS reinstates all winners who have NL1 (that's 22 000), but issues them visa numbers starting with 70 000. Lawsuit kicks the bucket next day, and visa numbers most likely won't go that high anyway so 22 000 are still pwned.
Now this guy ,Kwame is what l call "a serious guy" who knows what he's talking about.Infact the plaintiffs might win the case because K.C.C told them to fill the DSP and DS forms.The 36 named as plaintifs cannot be thrown out of the U.S because the lawsuit now exposes their intent to immigrate when they renew their visaa,they are successful and law abiding people who pay their taxes and its not their fault that KCC messed up.Those insulting Mr.White now know that hes doing pro bono and its his duty as required by the law.Thanks Kwame for the posts.Arkee and Jayo2k you can read American Bar Association Model Rule (ABA) 1.6 it explains what pro bono means. I plain english a lawyer has a professional responsibilty to do pro bono work for 50hrs a year. It could be in these forms
1. do it a reduced fee for those who can not afford
2. do it for free
3. make financial contribution to legal institutions
4. etc
A lawyer is also free to solicit donations. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the lawyers request for donations. Besides, he will have to declare that to the court incase he wins and the court decides to award him attorney fees.
On the class action lawsuit, even if the court fails to certify it as class action, Rule 20 of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure allows person/people wif they have a question of law or facts common to all the plaintiffs. In short it is called the "Permissive Joinder of Parties"
Not everyone was named as plaintiff because in a class action lawsuit just ONE person is enough to represent the class.
And those saying it takes years for a class action lawsuit, it really depends. But looking at the time critical of this case it possible an injuction will be placed on the July 15 before the merit of the case is decided.
Regardless of the lawsuit, if DoS reinstate the 22k winners, the case will be "moot." That means there is be no need for the lawsuit and the court will dismiss the case.
I have said this over and over again and I cant emphasize that enough, what does those who did not win lose if the 22k winners are reinstated?--NOTHING Afterall, a new draw is being done to accomodate those who did not win.
We cant blame the 22k winners when those who didnt win are happy these peoples' results have been invalidated-- we are eachothers brother keeper. Before MAY 1, we all came to this forum to help eachother go through the process BUT now we are sharply divided about this issue, which could be simply solved.
So many problems, I have read from this forum that hotmail users did not receive their confimation numbers that KCC sent out. What is going to happen to those people?
All applicants, I know it is not possible to find a common ground on this issue, but really we can.
Lets focus and discuss thiongs that unite us than divide us. After all, the final winners might need the help of others for the interview.
ToomCraigy
Banned
Say what? It's a prefect solution for DOS, basically a form of saying "f off" to all 22 000.being selected first but getting an interview last? talk about logic...
that was my point from the first time I heard about the lawsuit... The randomness... well, sure it was some what biased BUT where DOS is in trouble is that THEY KEPT TELLING US TO SHIP THE FORMS ASAP & phone calls are recorded... So based on that, the randomness is not even needed at this point since they told people to keep proceeding even when the site went down...
Now, the redrawing has allready took place but I'm sure that if not most of the 22k are selected again, then the lawsuit will be on... & remember, in usa, no one is above the law...
Now, the redrawing has allready took place but I'm sure that if not most of the 22k are selected again, then the lawsuit will be on... & remember, in usa, no one is above the law...
Now this guy ,Kwame is what l call "a serious guy" who knows what he's talking about.Infact the plaintiffs might win the case because K.C.C told them to fill the DSP and DS forms.The 36 named as plaintifs cannot be thrown out of the U.S because the lawsuit now exposes their intent to immigrate when they renew their visaa,they are successful and law abiding people who pay their taxes and its not their fault that KCC messed up.Those insulting Mr.White now know that hes doing pro bono and its his duty as required by the law.Thanks Kwame for the posts.
Say what? It's a prefect solution for DOS, basically a form of saying "f off" to all 22 000.
yeah, but most 22k are victims & are just waiting july 15... in fact, that would severely damage the US image... think about it "we made a mistake, well screw you you get at the last spot thanks for OUR mistake"
ToomCraigy
Banned
Well, not entirely ethical, but easy enough and cheaper than litigation.yeah, but most 22k are victims & are just waiting july 15... in fact, that would severely damage the US image... think about it "we made a mistake, well screw you you get at the last spot thanks for OUR mistake"
Another possible solution to this mess is for DOS to add more 5000-10,000 visas to the already 50,000 visas they are supposed to issue for the 2012 fiscal year, that way I think the ex winners and losers will be happy and the case resolved I hope? What I'm saying here is that the re-draw for 100,000 people will still hold, and that's 50,000 visas available for those that finally scaled tru the interview and 5000-10,000 visas for the ex 22k pple who scaled tru the interview.
Well, we are just here fighting and speculating, I'm sure DOS already knows what to do!
Well, we are just here fighting and speculating, I'm sure DOS already knows what to do!
ToomCraigy
Banned
That's impossible.Another possible solution to this mess is for DOS to add more 5000-10,000 visas
they removed 5 000 visa for the nicaragua traitee... they can do it... Remember it use to be 55 000 visas
That's impossible.
ToomCraigy
Banned
It was Congress who removed NACARA visas, not DOS. It requires legislative action.they removed 5 000 visa for the nicaragua traitee... they can do it... Remember it use to be 55 000 visas
anyway, at the end, this is a huge mess... wonder what will hapen when OIG (or if) give its conclusion... but the safe bet is to just wait july 15 hoping the lawsuit does not put a hold on the result...
It was Congress who removed NACARA visas, not DOS. It requires legislative action.
It is not impossible but only HIGHLY DIFFICULT. Your solution would mean that Congress must amend the INA which mandates 55,000 visas through Diveristy Program. It is 50,000 because the additional 5000 visas is being given to other class of people. Congress means the Senate+ House of Representatives. With both democrats and republicans sharply divided on almost any issue, I doubt if any amendment can happen. Besides, the time is too short for any meaningful debate by Congress. Whether DoS, select 100,000 or 5million people, they can ONLY give 50,000 visas. Any attempt by DoS to give more that 55,000 without Congressional authorization will be usurpation of Congress' Powers.
yup, the only thing is either 100 000 new selectees, or 78k selectees (plus back ups in case of peoples losing their confirmation number) & still 50k visa
It is not impossible but only HIGHLY DIFFICULT. Your solution would mean that Congress must amend the INA which mandates 55,000 visas through Diveristy Program. It is 50,000 because the additional 5000 visas is being given to other class of people. Congress means the Senate+ House of Representatives. With both democrats and republicans sharply divided on almost any issue, I doubt if any amendment can happen. Besides, the time is too short for any meaningful debate by Congress. Whether DoS, select 100,000 or 5million people, they can ONLY give 50,000 visas. Any attempt by DoS to give more that 55,000 without Congressional authorization will be usurpation of Congress' Powers.
To ALL those who first compared the Dv computer glitch to a casino lottery: this is your answer. The winner still kept the money while the company fix their error
http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2011/06/22/dnt.slot.machine.payout.wtae?hpt=hp_t2
http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2011/06/22/dnt.slot.machine.payout.wtae?hpt=hp_t2