Retrogression: Doing the Math

berkeleybee said:
All,

So it looks like estimating the exact number of Indians in EB-1, 2 and 3 is pretty impossible given current data.

Still I wanted to get some sense of the magnitude of the problem and how the various proposals floating around (increasing the per-country limit, increasing the total number of visa numbers available to the EB category, counting only the primary applicant etc.)

NOTE THAT THIS IS HYPOTHETICAL ANALYSIS -- A SET OF EXAMPLES SENSITIVE TO THE ASSUMPTIONS MADE. However, it helps to see how the numbers vary given the assumptions. Please read the notes on the description tab and on each other tab.

There are 5 tabs/scenarios in the Excel file attached (not including the Description tab). Even I was boggled when I made up the first tab -- "EB-2 Visa Numbers for Indians" tab.

I'm hoping I made some HUGE errors, which you will point out! But again, note that these are example scenarios.

This calculation does not make any sense.. This is based on a assumption that Indians will get only their quota. We need to understand that EB2 is current for everybody except china and india. This means the rest of the world have enough visas. All the un-used visas will go to India and China after every quarter. Also the remaining EB1 will also be used by people in EB2.
This makes indians to get atleast 20000 EB2s every year.
 
aix2005 said:
This calculation does not make any sense.. This is based on a assumption that Indians will get only their quota. We need to understand that EB2 is current for everybody except china and india. This means the rest of the world have enough visas. All the un-used visas will go to India and China after every quarter. Also the remaining EB1 will also be used by people in EB2.
This makes indians to get atleast 20000 EB2s every year.

This calculation does not make sense right now but if any of the two bills, McCain and Cornyn are passed in present form, this is more of less what we are looking forward to. Both the bills have provision to delete paragraph which allows Unused EB2 to be distributed to oversubscribed countries. If these bills are passed, unused EB2 will go to EB3 and unused EB3 will go to Other workers (a new category). If these bills are passed, message should be clear and loud, US does not welcome Indians and chinese. However, I do not think it will take 70 years for everyone. People in line close to cut off date will take less time and people applying for PERM now will take 70 years. I think it is supply and demand situtation and ultimately people will decide if it is worth waiting that long and people further in queue will quit and new equibrium will be established. if that will be 10 years or 70 will depend on how desperate people are for GC and how india and china do over next few years. I think it may take 6-7 years for EB2 filing now, if laws remain completely unchanged. so new law are not good for EB2.
 
aix2005 said:
This calculation does not make any sense.. This is based on a assumption that Indians will get only their quota. We need to understand that EB2 is current for everybody except china and india. This means the rest of the world have enough visas. All the un-used visas will go to India and China after every quarter. Also the remaining EB1 will also be used by people in EB2.
This makes indians to get atleast 20000 EB2s every year.

Delighted to hear that it doesn't make any sense. I mean that seriously. And I did put this file up so that people would come up with alternative, more plausible scenarios. I'm sorry if it sent the collective blood pressure shooting through the roof.

Yes, this analysis does assume that the constraints on each category are binding. On the other hand, I have no idea how much excess there is and how it is distributed. Does the excess get attributed to Indians every quarter or the end of the year? What about EB-3s?

Are you saying that Indians get 50% of the 40,000 or so EB-2 visas available right now? I wish there was corroboration for this somewhere.
 
infostarved said:
I did some analysis on this using ....
http://uscis.gov/graphics/shared/statistics/yearbook/2004/table5.xls
... as my source data.


EB1 had 2.36 GCs per primary
EB2 had 2.05 GCs per primary
EB3 had 2.08 GCs per primary

The distribution among EB1,2,3 was roughly 21% for EB1, 21% for EB2 and 58% for EB3

So weighting it by that much.. it works out to 2.13 GCs per primary employment-based immigrant.

I suggest ppl use this number in all future calculations.

Also, do us all a favor.... if you are planning on having a kid, have it in the "land of opportunity" to keep it that way :)... but if Nathan Deal has his way (H.R.698 in the 109th congress)... that wont help either :).


Berkleybee, here is the information provided by infostarved. Use 2.13 for calculation for family per primary applicant.
 
http://www.immigration-law.com/: said:
10/07/2005: Shocking EB Visa Numbers Prediction for FY 2006 and FY 2007

The AILA has reported the FY 2006 and FY 2007 Employment-Based Visa Number predication based on the information from the State Department and the Labor Department. It is literally shocking.
The recapture number from prior employment-based visa numbers, which we reported in our Visa Retrogression Q&A, approximately 101,000 have been almost completely exhausted, and fewer unused family-based immigrant visas out of about 89,000 are available for employment-based cases. Accordingly, recapturable numbers are practically almost gone.
The visa numbers for FY 2006 and FY 2007 which have been provided by the State Department to the AILA are so stunning that one feels completely lost. See the following figures:
FY 2005--249,000 (attributable recapture from the EB unused numbers and spillovers from the family-based categories)
FY 2006--156,000 (actual number is estimated to be about 6,000 fewer than this figure!)
FY 2007--148,000
For the Worldwide EB-2 numbers, it predicts that it may remain current at least through December 31, 2005, and then may retrogress during the 2nd quarter of FY-2006 (January - March 2006). What's more, a cut-off date may be established during the 3rd (April - June 2006) or 4th quarter (July - September 2006).
India used 45,000 EB immigrant visas in all of the employment-based visa categories in FY 2005, but in FY 2006, the per-country limit in all EB categories will only be 10,700, and of that 10,700, the number available per-country in the EB-1, EB-2 and EB-3 categories is projected to be only 9,180 or less.
The 245(i) cases which were filed mostly before April 31, 2001 will more or less seriously affect the pace of the visa number progression. But look at the estimate of 245(i) which is pending at the DOL. The number is staggering. There are estimated to be approximately 345,000 245(i) applications with the DOL. Without doubt, some of these applications will be denied, withdrawn or abandoned, but the prediction indicates that as many as 250,000-275,000 direct beneficiaries plus additional derivative beneficiaries of their family members (average 2.5) will move into I-140 and I-485 streams in the future.
Again, as we emphasized in our Visa Retrogression Q&A, the only solution is to push the Congress to pass the Immigration Reform legislation as soon as possible. You all should join in this force to lobby the Congress and refute the anti-immigration forces!
 
gc_2006, Did you put everything of your posting within quotes or are you replying to someone's mail?

neocor
 
EB32 has only 700 visas/yr ?

I work for a very big multinational, I and some of my friends were filed in EB32 Category in the middle of year 2003. If EB32 has only 700 visas/yr, it looks like we have to wait for another 10 years :eek: I rather would bring up a startup in Bharat than screw up my career. Can anyone confirm EB32 category's low end status. Any info is appreciated!

gcva said:
EB3 is devided into EB31(SPeciality workers and Professionals) and EB32(Otherworkers) and EB3(Schedule A). EB32 Quota is limited to 10000/year and percountry limit comes to be 700 visas.Since, EB3 Scheduled A are using 50000 recaptured visas they may not come for competition with EB31.Most of the EB3 filers of this forum are of EB31 which may only have 2000 visas per year per country.
 
Why are we after this stupid immigration bill on oct 18th.. there is no use of EB3 and EB2..

What I would like to see is ,

1. Eliminate the "same or similar" or "job title" rules.
2. Increase the duration of EAD and AP to 3yrs renewel after background check.

If these two changes are implemented I don't care about green card and I don't care about increase in EB2 and EB3 numbers..

People should rather try for UK ,, you can get permenant residency if you work for 4 years.. then you can come to US without any restrictions..

or even try canada immigration..
 
I have been saying the same thing. WHy not ask for removing "same or similar job title" restriction on AC21. There is more chance of that passing. I think people here are so much in shock with what has happened that htey are supporting any pro-immigration bill that is coming their way.

-Santosh
 
one step at a time guys. if they allow I140\i485 after perm regardless whether numbers are available, that will be a big help for many. This is planned to be discussed on oct 20, though.

as for UK, they require a lot of exp and very high salary (GBP 40k or USD 71k) before one can apply.
further canadian pr can not come to US without a visa; would not be surprised if the same will apply to UK pr.
asdqwe2k2 said:
Why are we after this stupid immigration bill on oct 18th.. there is no use of EB3 and EB2..

What I would like to see is ,

1. Eliminate the "same or similar" or "job title" rules.
2. Increase the duration of EAD and AP to 3yrs renewel after background check.

If these two changes are implemented I don't care about green card and I don't care about increase in EB2 and EB3 numbers..

People should rather try for UK ,, you can get permenant residency if you work for 4 years.. then you can come to US without any restrictions..

or even try canada immigration..
 
All this nonsense of doing this and that,
What do we think, this is immigration reform in efffect.
Do U think America can hold everybody,
What about those in family based who have to wait years without any complaint.
Everyday we come talking rubbish about EB3!!EB3!!!EB3**. Give me a break,
Some of us must get married and go to K visa category, alot of single American ladies r out there,
we must plan our life properly., BIG DEAL, CONGRESS LET THE EB3 CATEGORY STAYS AS IT IS.
JUST LET WHO IS HERE RENEW THEIR VISA, AND LET WHO HAS TO WAIT TO GET IN, WAIT.
COMPANIES IS MOVING TO CHINA AND INDIA EVERYDAY, THE JOBS R COMING TO US.
LETS STAY AT HOME AND BUILD OUR COUNTRY, CURSE ALL U WANT.
BUT THE TRUTH WILL ALWAYS BE THE TRUTH!

PEACE

option2
TO CONGRESS

ALRIGHT, THIS IS THE WAY OUT

ALL EB1, EB2, EB3...etc..................November Visa Bulletin.......CURRENT

LET'S PROCESS EVERYBODY AT ONCE

NEW PROCESING FEES BY NVC........ EB1...$25,000...EB2....$22,000...EB3....$20,000 PER APPLICANT.
SPOUSES ADD $12,000....EACH CHILD ADD $8,000

WE WILL MAKE ALOT OF MONEY....BILLIONS...WE WILL SURELY BALANCE THE BUBJET,,,
BUT WE R NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR FINDING ANY JOBS!
 
You are another face-plate..

Sawart (or saw rat) seems to be another face-plate to Alhindi alias CatDog..
 
Ironically, we are building/contributing our country better by staying here.....

Ironically, we are building/contributing our country better by staying here and sending whatever money. Remember most of our IT company founders at least in India have stayed here and learnt thing here or definitely outside India. I am not saying that people in India do not learn. Lets face it US is the research hub of the world (with Indian and outside scientists). IT was the singlemost biggest contributer to Indian economy in the last 20 years and that did not happen without our indirect contribution while still being here.
It was Indian IT programmers who stayed here and impresed US/Corporations here and made such an impression on them that they were confident about Indian programmers and thus the IT Outsourcing with which now India is making billions !

DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE THE KNOWLEDGE/SKILLS OF PEOPLE LIKE US. IT HAS HAD A PROFOUND IMPACT ON INDIAN ECOMONY EVEN WHEN WE WERE WORKING HERE AND NOT THERE (INDIA).





sawart said:
All this nonsense of doing this and that,
What do we think, this is immigration reform in efffect.
Do U think America can hold everybody,
What about those in family based who have to wait years without any complaint.
Everyday we come talking rubbish about EB3!!EB3!!!EB3**. Give me a break,
Some of us must get married and go to K visa category, alot of single American ladies r out there,
we must plan our life properly., BIG DEAL, CONGRESS LET THE EB3 CATEGORY STAYS AS IT IS.
JUST LET WHO IS HERE RENEW THEIR VISA, AND LET WHO HAS TO WAIT TO GET IN, WAIT.
COMPANIES IS MOVING TO CHINA AND INDIA EVERYDAY, THE JOBS R COMING TO US.
LETS STAY AT HOME AND BUILD OUR COUNTRY, CURSE ALL U WANT.
BUT THE TRUTH WILL ALWAYS BE THE TRUTH!

PEACE

option2
TO CONGRESS

ALRIGHT, THIS IS THE WAY OUT

ALL EB1, EB2, EB3...etc..................November Visa Bulletin.......CURRENT

LET'S PROCESS EVERYBODY AT ONCE

NEW PROCESING FEES BY NVC........ EB1...$25,000...EB2....$22,000...EB3....$20,000 PER APPLICANT.
SPOUSES ADD $12,000....EACH CHILD ADD $8,000

WE WILL MAKE ALOT OF MONEY....BILLIONS...WE WILL SURELY BALANCE THE BUBJET,,,
BUT WE R NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR FINDING ANY JOBS!
 
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You got my Support

sawart said:
All this nonsense of doing this and that,
What do we think, this is immigration reform in efffect.
Do U think America can hold everybody,
What about those in family based who have to wait years without any complaint.
Everyday we come talking rubbish about EB3!!EB3!!!EB3**. Give me a break,
Some of us must get married and go to K visa category, alot of single American ladies r out there,
we must plan our life properly., BIG DEAL, CONGRESS LET THE EB3 CATEGORY STAYS AS IT IS.
JUST LET WHO IS HERE RENEW THEIR VISA, AND LET WHO HAS TO WAIT TO GET IN, WAIT.
COMPANIES IS MOVING TO CHINA AND INDIA EVERYDAY, THE JOBS R COMING TO US.
LETS STAY AT HOME AND BUILD OUR COUNTRY, CURSE ALL U WANT.
BUT THE TRUTH WILL ALWAYS BE THE TRUTH!

PEACE

option2
TO CONGRESS

ALRIGHT, THIS IS THE WAY OUT

ALL EB1, EB2, EB3...etc..................November Visa Bulletin.......CURRENT

LET'S PROCESS EVERYBODY AT ONCE

NEW PROCESING FEES BY NVC........ EB1...$25,000...EB2....$22,000...EB3....$20,000 PER APPLICANT.
SPOUSES ADD $12,000....EACH CHILD ADD $8,000

WE WILL MAKE ALOT OF MONEY....BILLIONS...WE WILL SURELY BALANCE THE BUBJET,,,
BUT WE R NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR FINDING ANY JOBS!


I like your input, especially balancing the budget. This would certainly separat the boys from the men.

gbroder
 
popoye said:
Isnt this time around which the next vis bulletin comes out ??. Any hopes on that ?

Yeah its suppose to come out anytime now.
Lots of hopes pinned on it. Its expected to become current for all categories.
 
sawart said:
What about those in family based who have to wait years without any complaint.
I would prefer to wait 10 years with a family-based green card application than 5 years with employment-based.

Your family (except for some couples with troubled marriages) isn't likely to eject you from the family unless something serious happens, and they won't take advantage of your situation to make you work harder for less money. But employers will take advantage of you while you're with them, then drop you on a whim without warning, and leave you scrambling to find another employer via AC21 and have you sweating and hoping that you don't get an RFE during the time you're unemployed. Or if you haven't filed I-485/EAD already and you get laid off it's all over unless you have remaining H-1 eligibility.

The bottom line is that with a family-based application there is far more certainty in successfully seeing the process through to the end, even if it takes longer.

I am lucky enough to have an employer who pays me fairly and doesn't exploit me, but I am not immune from being laid off (and they have laid off people in recent years).
 
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Update

Hello,

I wanted to pass on some info I received from the company lawyers. I work for a Fortune 50 company. Their update on retrogression was:

"the PD dates are unlikely to move forward for the rest of 2005, they will begin to move slowly in 2006. They (as well as other lawyers) plan to file a lawsuit to address retrogression (possibly increase visa numbers or allocate unused visa numbers to oversubscribed areas)"

I am not trying to be negative, just passing on info I received. I have personally decided to just wait and ride it out, there is not much more to do!
- Dru

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, please use this information at your discretion.
 
dru said:
Hello,

I wanted to pass on some info I received from the company lawyers. I work for a Fortune 50 company. Their update on retrogression was:

"the PD dates are unlikely to move forward for the rest of 2005, they will begin to move slowly in 2006. They (as well as other lawyers) plan to file a lawsuit to address retrogression (possibly increase visa numbers or allocate unused visa numbers to oversubscribed areas)"

I am not trying to be negative, just passing on info I received. I have personally decided to just wait and ride it out, there is not much more to do!
- Dru

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, please use this information at your discretion.


If your fortune 50 lawyer has any credibility then this news is not negative at all. As long as the PD's dont move further back then it definately is good news.
But I would question the credibility of their information. As of today I dont think any lawyere would say anything at all regarding any kind of movement in Pd's. Also I dont think they have any idea what is going on with the USCIS.

But lets hope your fortune 50 lawyer really happen to know something. If so then this is definately good news that the PD's will move forward come 2006.

Everyone knows and its practically given that the dates dfinately wont move forward in the remaining months of 2005.

neocor
 
dru said:
"the PD dates are unlikely to move forward for the rest of 2005, they will begin to move slowly in 2006. They (as well as other lawyers) plan to file a lawsuit to address retrogression (possibly increase visa numbers or allocate unused visa numbers to oversubscribed areas)"

A lawsuit is a help of no use. Only legislation is the resolution. :D
 
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