Restructuring the forums

Rajiv,

While I hate to bring this up in a public forum, I am upset enough over this matter that I wanted to bring it to your notice!

I feel while having volunteer moderators is a good idea, without a strong mission statement, it will lead to a serious abuse of power. A case in point:

http://www.immigrationportal.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=491148#post491148

I had posted this poll with regards to what I consider serious issues of censorship in the CA 485 forum. And the moderator actually went in and modified my poll to add another option! Which I feel is totally offensive and immoral!

I am shocked that a volunteer moderators would actually do something like that! I don't mind having my posts deleted as much as I mind someone modifying my posts!

My main grouse is that there was no one to monitor the prejudices of the moderator! This probably is the biggest drawback of volunteer moderators that while they are monitoring the forum for unforum related activity they are also constantly posting messages. Now occasionally there will be conflicts of interest. Which is exactly what we have here. Enough posts have been deleted without explanation, where as posts of similar SPAM nature have not! Why? Because the moderator happened to agree with those posts. No amount of justification can balance that wrong! I believe, to make this work, you have to come out with a mission statement that will clarify without any doubt in the moderator's mind the things that they can and cannot do. Impartial decision making is the key here.

Thanks for your attention in this matter.
 
Unfortunately the above mentioned thread has been deleted by the moderator! I think there is even more cause to come out with guidelines. Moderators either should not participate in heated discussions or not be allowed to be moderators. To draw an analogy, Police men are NOT allowed to give tickets when they are involved in accidents! We need more impartiality or the free spirt of this forum is going to be lost!

Here is a link for the reinstated thread

http://www.immigrationportal.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=84190

Thanks once again!
 
suggest

Originally posted by 140_takes_4ever
Unfortunately the above mentioned thread has been deleted by the moderator! I think there is even more cause to come out with guidelines. Moderators either should not participate in heated discussions or not be allowed to be moderators. To draw an analogy, Police men are NOT allowed to give tickets when they are involved in accidents! We need more impartiality or the free spirt of this forum is going to be lost!

Here is a link for the reinstated thread

http://www.immigrationportal.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=84190

Thanks once again!
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What do you folks suggest we do? Comments and suggestions are needed.
 
Rajiv,

Since I am the moderator of that forum, and it is me who is being talked about, I figured I should bring out a few points before anything (I hadn't known about these messages being posted here so far).

a) I suggest, lets go by whatever the results of that poll suggest. So far, the poll suggests a passive moderation, with a slight inclination in favor of letting a moderator do his job .. the way he wants to do it (Too many cooks y'know). That is pretty much what I had been doing, and I absolutely agree with that concept that Off topic threads are okay, as long as they are clean. Whether they are clean or not .. let the moderator decide.

b) I've been accused by 140 of "Power Trip". (Please read the reinstated thread). Rajiv, you asked me to be moderator. I said, I might not have time to do this, but I will do my best because I believe in fighting against the crap INS puts on our heads, and I will continue to do this even past of getting my green card or citizenship. I certainly have better power trips to worry about than .. the rush I get out of deleting posts on immigrationportal.com, that in all honesty I beleived were inappropriate. Put yourself in my shoes, and think how ridiculous this power trip concept is. If you knew me better, you would LAUGH at that childish comment.

c) Take this suggestion with a grain of salt and your own judgement. Make 140 a moderator and give him the power trip instead. He has been a fairly old member here, and seems to know more than me about responsibility atleast as far as deleting threads go. Plus he is afterall very keen on "How things should be done". I say .. and if you and the users on the CSC forum agree, give him a chance. .. who knows he just might be pretty good.

d) Another thing I have been accused of by 140 is, taking credit, or plagiarism by moving important threads to the FAQ section ... Had you not asked me to do that? And if credit is so important to any particular user, he should have included a copyright statement in his message, how am I supposed to know? I thought every user here was here with an intention to selflessly help another in the same situation. Where did the question of credit come in place? And if credit is what you want .. geez, you can have it all !!!

e) .. I know I'd like to see a world with everyone happy too, but a specific user "1amShantanuB" had been posting messages which were either personal attacks, stingy, or caustic. I gave him a warning that was unheeded, and then on I deleted his inappropriate messages without warnings, and actually replied in all sincerity to his messages that did look appropriate. I actually tried and talk to him directly in certain threads, because I felt he could, if he wanted to be a valuable member of this community. There were threads in which users asked me to BLOCK him, and I said NO I WON'T, because he is I am sure a nice guy who will realize sooner or later and be a valuable member to our community. Now did I do wrong?? And for all I could know, Shantanu is another 140 registered by a different email address.

(Reference,

http://boards.immigration.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=84185 .. and ..
http://boards.immigration.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=84163 .. ) .. I didn't keep a log of his deleted posts/threads.

f) Finally, this is your site. Whats more, you are doing far more to help the immigrant community than I can ever dream of matching up with. If you decide my not being a moderator is the best for the community, I would be more than glad to comply. I will still continue visiting this site, I will still continue being an active member, because I do believe that INS is evil and needs to be remedied. But I will not agree that I did anything wrong or inappropriate by deleting threads I felt deserved deletion.

You might also want to read this. http://boards.immigration.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=84219
Kaput.

PS: I have pretty much spoken what I wanted to here. I am sure there will be replies to this message. If you need any clarification from me, ask me directly, as I feel turning this into an online brawl is not healthy in any manner.
 
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Sorry about flaming! But thought this post definitely deserves a rebuttal!

(I hadn't known about these messages being posted here so far)
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Actually that is so blatantly false! I had clearly indicated to SillyMan, that I had marked the thread to Rajiv for his perusal, While I was trying to post a message to SillyMan asking him not to delete the thread until that was done, his trigger happy fingers wouldn't wait and he deleted the poll thread! The key reason I wanted to bring this up to Rajiv's attention was the anger I felt about SillyMan actually modifying my posts (not deletion mind you but modification)! That was TOTAL abuse of power! It was moral turpitude! While the whole concept of the poll was to check what the forum users thought about censorship! SillyMan wrongly perceived it to be a personal attack and with his super powers decided to be nasty about it and did exactly that!

a) I suggest, lets go by whatever the results of that poll suggest. So far, the poll suggests a passive moderation, with a slight inclination in favor of letting a moderator do his job .. the way he wants to do it (Too many cooks y'know). That is pretty much what I had been doing
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Which is actually the bone of contention! In my opinion a moderator has no business being involved in heated arguments. This is like having the same person as the prosecutor, the judge and the jury. SillyMan goes ahead and posts a pretty nasty personal attack against me and when I respond, he deletes my message, and then deletes the thread so the proof is gone with the wind! Which does not display his passive moderation. (His claiming passive moderation is like Bush claiming to be a compassionate Republican!)

The concept of the power trip is not really very ridiculous! This point smacks of an attempt at portraying himself as being victimized. I think the reinstated poll thread will bear proof of what the users think of his abuse of power! Regardless, the key issue here is censorship! Instead of taking it personally and taking steps to address the same there were even more flagrant abuses of power,

c) Take this suggestion with a grain of salt and your own judgement. Make 140 a moderator and give him the power trip instead. He has been a fairly old member here, and seems to know more than me about responsibility atleast as far as deleting threads go. Plus he is afterall very keen on "How things should be done". I say .. and if you and the users on the CSC forum agree, give him a chance. .. who knows he just might be pretty good.
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I disagree, instead of taking it with a grain of salt, I think Rajiv should actually look at the poll and the comments on that thread! This community is alive, and people on it have opinions! That is what makes it so cool! I don't have a problem with SillyMan being a moderator, but I believe that being a moderator implies that the person needs to behave like one! A moderator cannot go around picking fights. His job is to put them out! To be moderate and unbiased! To listen to the people because after all without them he is a moderator of nothing! I expected SillyMan to work wonders! He was one of us, and regardless of what he says now, we were pretty good friends till yesterday!

My initial post to you on this thread was not to ask you to knock SillyMan down from being moderator. It was to come up with a set of guidelines, that a moderator can use to manage the forum efficiently! I felt muzzling the posts is bad for the forum. Before if people felt strongly about a post, they always had the link which read "Report post to moderator". Then the moderator could step in and do the needful!

d) Another thing I have been accused of by 140 is, taking credit, or plagiarism by moving important
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Actually Vipsha, who is a senior member on the forum was the one who accused SillyMan of plagiarism of Vipsha's posts, I merely spelt it out for SillyMan, when he couldn't understand Vipsha's words! And for that matter, offcourse credit is important. Why else would people do so much work? It is not that Vipsha was getting money to collect the thread, all he was getting was recognition.

And for all I could know, Shantanu is another 140 registered by a different email address.
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This is such a blatant personal attack I won't respond to this. It is very easy to check IP address and nicks. For all we know shantanu could be SillyMan!

With regards to the current post by SillyMan, I feel it is petulant and childish, more as a personal attack against me for bringing this up. It absolutely does not answer the charges of over active censorship. It does not promise change. Instead it seems as if he feels self righteous and indignant that he could actually do something wrong! But that is not the point I am trying to make here! I am not interested in locking horns personally. It is more a matter of what should the role of the moderator should be? What is are his/her responsibilities? Should the moderator be more moderate? Should the moderator use more appropriate language?

I know Rajiv, that you are extremely busy and don't really have too much time for this petulant squabbles. Maybe I am being too picky, maybe SillyMan is being too sensitive. I don't want to waste your time anymore. I have already deleted my posts in the disputed threads. I have no intention of being a moral policeman! I am going to step back from trying to implement order. If you and the other forum users are happy about what is going on, then who am I to dispute that? This post has already gone too long! Hopefully soon I will post back here with a set of rules I think make the moderators a more moderating influence on the forums. If they meet with your approval, I am sure you can implement them!.

Thanks for your time.
 
I am copying this message from another thread (so maybe Rajiv/owner would read it). Rajiv/owner may please delete this message after reading.

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I would prefer that neither 140 nor SM moderate this forum. Infact no active (hyperactive, I might add) member with vested interests (like me, wating for AOS) should moderate.

The thread that needed to be deleted was that "gulti" thread. Racist, blasphemous and foul threads are other candidates for deletion. All these can be reported to the moderator by users. If a few users (or a percentage of the users) report the thread, the moderator can

1) ask to stop postings to that thread
2) stop the postings to that thread or
3) delete that thread
in that order. or at his/her discretion.

Sorry to see SM and 140 on unhappy terms. I am sure stress is partly to blame.

wait it out guys...
=========
 
I know one thing for sure

We are all well intentioned. With that commonality, I can work out ANYTHING. :) So hang tight. I will be reviewing all the suggestions on Tuesday. By next week with your help we will arraive at a common direction.

I love the idea of all of us participating. The more minds, he better (usually).
 
Silly Man should go

Rajiv,

I didn't really understood what 140 was talking about. Now it is clear that Silly Man is really doing bad things.

With no reason he has deleted my postings. I haven't even got single warning before he deleted it. I want to know why he is doing so?

Silly Man has got no moral rights to continue as a moderator, because he is changing things for his own interest. Not for the community... but he tells that whatever he is doing is all for community.

Sorry.... these are too personal and I had no intention to be against a person. But he is spoiling the entire forum.

Now I am even afraid of posting anything in CSC forum... because I know it will never see lights.

Rajiv, why would you want a controversy person moderating this forum? I know you are doing great services to all of us, but we can't tolerate Silly Man.

Thanks
 
Re: Silly Man should go

Originally posted by Silly Maan
With no reason he has deleted my postings. I haven't even got single warning before he deleted it. I want to know why he is doing so?
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The reason was your signature. You are not a moderator.
 
The reason was your signature. You are not a moderator
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It very clearly says that I am NOT repeat NOT a moderator. Even then, if you find a problem with anything, you must let the poster knows about the issues. It is not a good practice just to go and blindly delete posts from here and there.

In fact, Silly man is the person who forced me put such signature. Everyone knows that he is the moderator, but why is it stamped there in his signature? Just to warn people... "Hey, I am the super power. I can do anything here... beware" If he can have such signature, what is wrong with mine? He and the people he likes can post any nonsense. But not others. What does that mean? Short answer is "misuse".

Since I asked, I came to know that he deleted them all because of the sign. Otherwise, all my posting would have got deleted with out anyone’s knowledge.

I think this is way too much :mad:

I am not going to change my signature until Silly Man changes his signature.
 
It is stamped in my signature because all moderators were asked to include that line in their signatures. I'll let operations delete your message if they deem neccessary.
 
Silly Maan, before you post another post here, read this true story.

I have a friend. He came to USA when he was in his early 20's. He filed for his green card, he was really intelligent so he progressed fast. His 485 overlapped with the downslide of the market, plus he had to get married or else he knew he wouldn't be able to for a long time. So he rushed to India and got married. When he was trying to bring his wife back on H4, he realized he was already approved, and his wife was sent back to India. It's been 4 years since then, they have a 3 year old son. The son asks his father .. "Why do mummy and daddy not live together", and "Why does everyone at school have both mummy and daddy". The father cannot explain immigration laws to his son. He cannot explain that mummy cannot see her son grow, because american immigration laws won't let her set foot in this country. Meanwhile, his wife living with his parents back there, is an object of weird attention there, because none of the relatives in india understand that why a "Green Card" holder won't take his wife to USA. The parents cannot understand it even. Everytime I see either of them, it brings tears to my eyes.

Their life is a living hell, that they will have to continue thru for the next 4-5 years. The 3 year old, will never understand the reason for this, and will have a skewed childhood until he is around 10 years old.

And that is one of thousands of others people such reading this website.

Y'know it is a SHAME that somebody should even think and actually act on violating a wonderful source of information, and such a moral support in these tough times as this board is.

Every individual like the one mentioned above, who reads immigrationportal.com, reads it with an undying hope and gratitude that when everyone they know, including the lawyers they have paid, are of no help whatsoever, this is the only place that provides them with not just credible information, but emotional and mental support also.

For once, before you post another message, think about your actions, and think about all such people you are harming for no fault of theirs by violating this board.

About me not being moderator, if that helps keep the sancity of this board, I would request Rajiv to take my moderator rights away. But I will still continue being on this board, and I would still continue being who I am, and if I could, I would still try and help others.

Please, donot mess this board up for your fun, it is just not morally right. Think of all the seperated families, and all the mental stress high blood pressure cases that you are troubling with your pranks.

For once, for god's sake, before you post another message, think of that three year old boy, who will not see his parents together, until he is atleast 10. Think of what childhood he will get, and think of what was his fault to start with.

I hope you understand.
 
Silly Man, I appreciate you narrating us a story. But whatever you say... your style doesn't suite for a moderator. See this to find how a moderator should be http://boards.immigration.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=444316#post444316

Conclusion:
New equations derived from past experience.
Others == Constructor
Silly Man == Destructor

I have no intention to continue the talks further. I will not come back here and utter a single word again.

Correct yourself if you want.
 
We are all learning

Originally posted by Silly Maan
Silly Man, I appreciate you narrating us a story. But whatever you say... your style doesn't suite for a moderator. See this to find how a moderator should be http://boards.immigration.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=444316#post444316

Conclusion:
New equations derived from past experience.
Others == Constructor
Silly Man == Destructor

I have no intention to continue the talks further. I will not come back here and utter a single word again.

Correct yourself if you want.
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Gice us a little time. This is a new direction for all of us.
 
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