Restricted immigration is not an offensive but purely a defensive action. It is not a

bve

Registered Users (C)
Restricted immigration is not an offensive but purely a defensive action. It is not adopted in criticism of others in the slightest degree, but solely for the purpose of protecting ourselves. We cast no aspersions on any race or creed, but we must remember that every object of our institutions of society and government will fail unless America be kept American. Calvin Coolidge 1924 :)
 

posmd

Registered Users (C)
bve said:
Restricted immigration is not an offensive but purely a defensive action. It is not adopted in criticism of others in the slightest degree, but solely for the purpose of protecting ourselves. We cast no aspersions on any race or creed, but we must remember that every object of our institutions of society and government will fail unless America be kept American. Calvin Coolidge 1924 :)

Define "American".
 

calif

Registered Users (C)
solution to problem: create many more americas in world

Unless some other countries like canada/australia with vast resources decide
to compete with USA, People will flock to USA and they can define a immigrant whatever way they want. Plain supply/demand economics.
(US has a vested interest for immigration, The basic tenets of capitalism is
"me first" attitute, I think so do immigrants)

You can't blame bve, Because he is doing (perceived, He just put a statement with no indication of support)what 90% of people do "me first".
I can gurantee you 90% people among us will do same 10-15 years from now
when they become citizens, If Not us definately our kids born here.



I had high hopes from India/China that inspite of all their problems, they
may be able to redefine themselves which will help redefining skilled immigrant in positive light in USA.
 

djh

Member
why are you all getting worked up with bye's quote?.... it is a quotation of an american president... I think the point of his quote is that immigration through the years has always been emotive and subject to "protectionism" and there may be good arguements on both sides of the equation. The fact is that bye just put a quote down by a previous american president. Deal with it.
 

techy2468

Registered Users (C)
dude chatterjee..........i hope you have some good supporting argument to defend your views....

i am yet to apply for my GC and it means a lot to me........but if i was american.....i would like my country to give first preference to existing citizens....and not open the doors for capitalist purpose...

no matter how dumb or lazy the citizens are (i am not saying that it is true....but this is the sterotype a desi has about general americans......) its their country....and they deserve the benefit of being born here....call it pure luck....but thats how nature is......a billionaire is not going to stop caring for his children just because they are lazy & dumb, isnt it??

so stop asking for immigration as a right........or stope portraying that america is lost if not for immigrants.........we are definitely doing good to their system/economy but if only they would fix their schooling system......they may not need skilled workers from overseas.
 

chatterjee

Registered Users (C)
Techy 2468, I fully agree with you.

Its the degree of protectionism in immigration that I was commenting on (the quote is from one of the most conservative republican US President of the pre-depression era).

America will continue to thrive, its only those who want the shield of protectionism and are less competitive would face the threat and challenge ...

I am getting worked up as the topic raised here is regressive. Indeed, BVE quoted President Calvin Coolidge, who was the 30th President of the United States (1923-29). Coolidge was regarded as an extremely conservative Republican. We know that such views are now out of context, and at the margin obsolete. Benefits for immigration in a more open and global context was too early to be perceived before the great depression, and such conservative and protective views were washed out partly by the economic contraction that followed.

Here is a quote from the White House itself:

Before his (Calvin Coolidge) death in January 1933, he confided to an old friend, ". . . I feel I no longer fit in with these times."

http://www.whitehouse.gov/history/presidents/cc30.html


I do not think there would be much support for the views portrayed by Coolidge (or BVE) in current times, from the blue-blodded American elite (Republican or Democrat). Sure we have a retrogression and we are upset and frustrated, but the tenets of competitiveness and capitalism have not changed.

I do not think my views would change after 10-15years. It is a matter of principle. It may be true that after 15yrs I would not be able to compete with new blood and face career challenges. However, I would know that accepting reality would be a better strategy than defending protectionism as what will be will be.....
 

softwareguy

Registered Users (C)
Out of context.

Fantastic viewpoint... Fantastic quote from Calvin Coolidge 1924.

Lets put things in perspective. Most of us writing and reading this article have been on Work Visa - What is work visa? A country doesnt have enough citizen to grow its economy and is asking help from outside... What is that it gets in return... unprecidented growth - USA from the time of 1924 to today has grown leaps and bound, thanks to vast resources and able hands to reap them... So the country is getting consistently what it needs....

What does the worker get, a fair wage, but a human life needs more than money for security. It needs the knowledge that if tomorrow is not all that great, he can still count on things like roof, time to plan next course of action.. and not INS knocking on his door asking to leave the country in less than 10 days.. (possible in theory).

What this entire Forum is asking for is latter - just a bit of security nothing more.. Rest we can manage..

And yes, we do and are contribute hard work towards this country and I feel I do have a right after 5-6 years to see that when things are not good for me its OK. I can face tomorrow in this land...

On a separate note - why the hell have h1 b in 1st place. If this countrys' citizens have guts close doors completely....
 

saras76

Banned
This whole post is pointless ...

Although its makes for interesting reading, I do not see the point in this post. Who cares what an ex-president said ages ago. This forum was created for immigrants that want to share information and help eachother get through this tough imimgration process. Idiotic posts like these add no value to this forum. They just give sadistic pleasure to people who have already gotten their GCs or are citizens. I am sure they are amused at the emotional responses to this ridiculous post.

Lets spend more time trying to figure out how to get out of this mess rather than reply to some idiots post.

regards,

saras76
 

techy2468

Registered Users (C)
software guy........its not that they do not have guts to close the door..........the point is that we do not have enough dignity to go to another country or go back home.....even when we are going thru this hell.......why?........because this country is worth it........even if i get my GC after a wait of 3-4 years.....and working like a slave thru the same employer..........this GC will be worth it........and i am not going to say that they need me....or that it is my right............, but i will have to prove that i fulfil their criteria.....and sadly....i will have to wait more....
 

saras76

Banned
Your rights ..

techy2468 said:
software guy........its not that they do not have guts to close the door..........the point is that we do not have enough dignity to go to another country or go back home.....even when we are going thru this hell.......why?........because this country is worth it........even if i get my GC after a wait of 3-4 years.....and working like a slave thru the same employer..........this GC will be worth it........and i am not going to say that they need me....or that it is my right............, but i will have to prove that i fulfil their criteria.....and sadly....i will have to wait more....

techy2468,

Although I agree with some of your views I think you need to give yourself a little more credit. Getting the GC is not your right but a transparent and fair process IS your right (especially when this country prides itself on the fairness and equality of most of its processes). A guaranteed GC is not your right but getting some resolution within a reasonable amount of time IS your right. Most of us immigrants are NOT demanding the GC, we are demanding that our applications be considered and a DECISION be made. Letting our files sit in some storage area for years on end without any explaination or reasoning is unacceptable.

Just because you made the choice to come to this country does not give this country the right to treat you in any way they choose. Not wanting to leave is not a matter of dignity. We are here because we are needed. We are also here because we need to be. Its a two way street. Talking of dignity, you cannot generalize. Although there are a sizeable number of immigrants here that will do anything and everything to remain in this country, there are enough that are willing to leave. The reason a lot of them are not leaving (I am included in this lot) is that we have already invested so many years into this stupid process and are hesitant to throw it all away at this stage.

Finally, we cannot expect the same rights as citizens and permanent residents but we should not resign ourselves to dealing with any sort of treatment that is thrown our way. All we are asking for is a decision (YES OR NO) and its ridiculous that this system can't even provide that.

regards,

saras76
 
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softwareguy

Registered Users (C)
techy2468 - My thought were wholly based on Philosophical view point expressed as a response to a Viewpoint.

Not that USA as of today is good or bad to live. The whole idea is that if a country needs your able hands, it has to give more in return. I not asking anyone to go back or you needing to justify your reasons.
And if a country cannot do this they should not have a program like H1 B.

It is only now that you have seen a better life you wish to pursue it further.. Techy2468 - what if you never had come to this country... Ponder on that thought. You would have still tried to make your life better somewhere else..
Thats a right of every human being.

saras76 - I agree this is the exact nature of people on other side of the fence... Problem is they Philosophically try to justify that!!
 

global_goonda

Registered Users (C)
bve said:
Restricted immigration is not an offensive but purely a defensive action. It is not adopted in criticism of others in the slightest degree, but solely for the purpose of protecting ourselves. We cast no aspersions on any race or creed, but we must remember that every object of our institutions of society and government will fail unless America be kept American. Calvin Coolidge 1924 :)

A statement full of contradictions and pre-suppositions. Lets analyze:
"It is not adpoted in criticism....but for the purpose of protecting ourselves". When I build a wall to *protect* myself against my neighbor, don't I implicitly criticise my neighbor? Don't I implicitly acknowledge a *threat* when I raise the banner of *protectionism*? Isn't that criticism?

"We cast no apseration on any race...... America be kept American". Aha - so American is a race? If he isn't casting any aperations on any race, then what is he afraid of regarding immigration? It is like saying "We trust you, but we don't trust you to become American?" In fact since a person's race is immutable, Coolidge's statement means "If you're not of the American race, then you never can be - so we must keep you out".
 

techy2468

Registered Users (C)
let me summarise my thoughts:

right now everyone thinks GC is a favor they are doing to us (including my university people) and they keep it as the lowest priority (same with the current us administration)
so if you do not want to be treated as the lowest priority item.....look for an alternative.

they do accept our application.....but they have started ignoring it....its the least priority....its an indirect message that they do not care about us......now either we accept this fact and wait it out.......or if we really think we deserve better then we need to create alternative...

it does not matter how much time we have spent.....all it matters is how important it is....and how much are we willing to pay...........its all a demand and supply.........they can find a substitute for us in the form of another H1 visa holder.....

and if there is no gaurentee of GC, mark my word there will still be people coming for temporary stay to make money.......since there is a abundance of manpower in developing country.......maybe the top cream will not come....but even the average person is good enough to do our jobs (i consider myself an average programmer....because i have not been yet given any assignment, which i can say that only i can do justice to it)
 

chatterjee

Registered Users (C)
Techy2468,

It is not necessary that we have to .... "not have enough dignity to go to another country or go back home.....even when we are going thru this hell.......why?........because this country is worth it........even if i get my GC after a wait of 3-4 years.....and working like a slave thru the same employer". If you have a good background (IIT etc.) you should be able to make US$60-80K base (or more depending on your experience) in India, and very easily. If you are willing to work in Sing/HK you can make more (but opportunities are less there). Also, sitting in US is not necessary to get your GC, and certainly not if you are being exploited like a slave (try EB1 or EB2 NIW if you qualify).

You should look at GC as a mutually beneficial process - where you significantly contribute to the US economy/production process and get the GC security in return. GC security is not a blanket assurance to great life. Sure you will not be asked to leave US by the authorities, but a burger-flipping job gives you no life (think of the cost of child's education, retirement savings etc.). On the other hand, if you can double your salary by changing job now - may be you should. With that higher salary/bigger responsibility you may be a better candidate for EB1 and still manage to get your GC earlier. Besides, what is the point of sacrificing the best years of your productive life for slavedom.

However, not all can get $60-80K-100K jobs back in India. India is very very competitive. Many in the US (particularly in software & may be para medical/nursing field) do not have adequate formal training and capability to compete in India. Their best choice may still be slavedom in US till they get their GC. Many of them will do better, as GC will provide job mobility.

At the end its your choice Techy 2468. Wish you all the best.
 

Jackolantern

Registered Users (C)
saras76 said:
techy2468,

Although I agree with some of your views I think you need to give yourself a little more credit. Getting the GC is not your right but a transparent and fair process IS your right (especially when this country prides itself on the fairness and equality of most of its processes). A guaranteed GC is not your right but getting some resolution within a reasonable amount of time IS your right. Most of us immigrants are NOT demanding the GC, we are demanding that our applications be considered and a DECISION be made. Letting our files sit in some storage area for years on end without any explaination or reasoning is unacceptable.
Very well said. The green card process is not some charity the US government is giving us; it is a service for which they are being paid every step of the way. From the time of your first H-1 all the way to I-485, the US government has collected a total of thousands of dollars in fees to perform a few hours of paperwork. Having that paperwork processed promptly is indeed a right that we pay for but do not receive.
 

techy2468

Registered Users (C)
beating the drum again and again....will not give us any relief.....but if we accept that we are not the choosers....i think then, we may plan something as an alternative....or atleast when we will talk, it will make sense....it wont be some biased, agenda driven talk.

point is: uscis takes fee......and taking fee is no gaurentee for anything.....particularly for a gov agency....this rule applies all over the world.....

they are not providing a service.......you want them to consider your application.....they are not selling the service......

i hope people realise that we are nobody in todays immigration political & capitalist game..............if we are lucky we will get something in terms of legislation....otherwise we may be ignored for 2-3 years because of different elections...

my only hope is business is interested in our cause to some extent......but we are second priority.....for them H1B is first priority...
 

saras76

Banned
Biased .. agenda driven ... ??

techy,

I am not sure what the bias is or what the agenda is. Do you not think that we deserve some sort of resolution after 6++ years of waiting??? Hey, if the USCIS doesn't want us here then they should just reject the damn applications and ask us to pack up and leave. All we ask is that they stop this indefenite limbo. There is nothing wrong in asking for that. There is no agenda here and there is no bias. It is not about H1-B versus EB categories. It is about resolution, it is about some sort of accountability. Also people are NOT free to ask us to leave if we do not like it here. We were hired by American firms because we bring value. They are NOT doing us a favor by hiring us. We are NOT doing them any favors either. They need us and we need them. We make MONEY for them and they help us create our own wealth. We are smart and resourceful. If people really want us to leave then they should push their congressmen to pass legislation that would reject our applications immiediately and THEN we will leave.

I have a feeling you have not been in this system for to long. If you have then I am amazed at your approach. Please stop making excuses for agencies. Everyone knows we are not top priority but we are not bottom of the barrel either. Going by your approach we should just sit back and make excuses for everything in life. Here are a few examples based on your thinking -

Question - Why didn't I get a raise this year?

Answer - I do not deserve it. I am not a priority at my work place. I must accept it.

Question - Why was I not promoted?

Answer - I am colored so I cannot expect this. Why would they make me manager. I am at the bottom of this food chain. I should just accept it.

Question - Why are agenecies neglecting my applications?

Answer - They can do what they want. They are doing me a favor. I should be happy that they are not kicking me out. I am SOOOO LUCKY.

The list can go on and on.

saras76
 
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