Rejected for informal probation

hefyjefy

Registered Users (C)
Hello, we live in California

My daughter (23) has a DUI from about 2 years ago, the fine has been paid and also she attended and completed the the required school. She sent all the required papers for her arrest along with her N-400 and (with me - her father) received first the BIO tests and then the interview appointment, I passed the interview but she, after answering all the questions and fulfilling the other requirements was told that she was being refused because her informal probation of 5 years from the DUI was not complete.

Q1- Why did they not inform her when she originally sent in the required arrest papers that she was ineligible? - had we known we would not have paid the $680 application.
Q2 - Do we have any grounds to get the probation lifted?
Q3 - Our green cards expire in November of this year, if we can't get her citizenship we will need to renew her green card - is that going to be a problem?

Thanks for any assistance

Geoff
 
Hello, we live in California

My daughter (23) has a DUI from about 2 years ago, the fine has been paid and also she attended and completed the the required school. She sent all the required papers for her arrest along with her N-400 and (with me - her father) received first the BIO tests and then the interview appointment, I passed the interview but she, after answering all the questions and fulfilling the other requirements was told that she was being refused because her informal probation of 5 years from the DUI was not complete.

Q1- Why did they not inform her when she originally sent in the required arrest papers that she was ineligible? - had we known we would not have paid the $680 application.
Q2 - Do we have any grounds to get the probation lifted?
Q3 - Our green cards expire in November of this year, if we can't get her citizenship we will need to renew her green card - is that going to be a problem?

Thanks for any assistance

Geoff

Unfortunately DHS waits for the interview, they go through with Naturalization test and everything and then they deny. Applicants cannot be naturalized if they are on probabtion. I dont think there is any deportation in DUI cases unless there are many.

I dont know if this falls under CIMT. If it is not then she can apply after the probabtion otherwise she has to wait 5 years from the date of termination of probabtion.

She would ave to talk to the probabtion officer and would have to file a petition in court if for early termination and which is upto the judge.

I don't think renewing a GC will have any issue.

Please also consult an Attorney.
 
Hello, we live in California

My daughter (23) has a DUI from about 2 years ago, the fine has been paid and also she attended and completed the the required school. She sent all the required papers for her arrest along with her N-400 and (with me - her father) received first the BIO tests and then the interview appointment, I passed the interview but she, after answering all the questions and fulfilling the other requirements was told that she was being refused because her informal probation of 5 years from the DUI was not complete.

Q1- Why did they not inform her when she originally sent in the required arrest papers that she was ineligible? - had we known we would not have paid the $680 application.
Q2 - Do we have any grounds to get the probation lifted?
Q3 - Our green cards expire in November of this year, if we can't get her citizenship we will need to renew her green card - is that going to be a problem?

Thanks for any assistance

Geoff

A1-You should have looked at the forums before sending in the application. People who process the application have entry level positions. They are no experts. An interviewer is an expert who can approve/deny your application. You should have discussed the situation with a lawyer before sending the forms. Moral Character is definitely blurred with a DUI on record.
A2-Apply after 5 years.
A3-Renewing green card won't be a much of a problem. (If it's denied, then I don't know...ask a lawyer again on this issue)
 
8 CFR § 316.10 Good moral character.

(c) Proof of good moral character in certain cases —

(1) Effect of probation or parole. [Added comments in bold.]

An applicant who has been on probation, parole, or suspended sentence during all or part of the statutory period is not thereby precluded from establishing good moral character, [Probation does not prevent filing an N-400 and does not require denial.]

but such probation, parole, or suspended sentence may be considered by the Service in determining good moral character. [Behavior while on probation is considered in discretionary decisions.]

An application will not be approved until after the probation, parole, or suspended sentence has been completed. [CURRENT probation prevents administering the Oath. So, one can apply while still on probation, if they had good compliance, BUT the probation must come to a satisfactory end BEFORE an N-400 can be approved. With the faster processing times, it is wiser wait to until probation is completed before filing.]

********************************
An ordinary DUI is NOT a CIMT and does not create a 5 year (or 3 yr) bar to filing. Good compliance and a sufficient period from the time of the incident to the time of the Oath will be considered and decided as a matter of discretion one way or the other, case-by-case.
 
CA Probation: Formal or Informal?

To understand how probation works in CA you must understand the difference between formal and informal probation (court probation). Formal probation requires that you register with the Adult Probation Department of your county where you will be assigned a probation officer who will supervise you throughout your probation. In the beginning you may have to meet with him once a week. Once you show you will perform the conditions of probation your meetings may be less often. Court or informal probation does not require registration or supervision. The primary condition is that you obey all laws during the term of probation. If you are arrested again during your probation the DA will seek to have your probation modified or terminated.

Gentlemen, thank you for the very rapid response.

As far as we can tell there is no Probation Officer (or at least my daughter has never been to see one). My feeling is that for an American-born citizen 3-5 years probation would be considered a reasonable penalty - but in my daughters situation I think its unusually severe. Once we have the official notification from the DHS I intend to take it the court to see if we can get it reduced.
 
Hi again - just to let you know that I received my appointment for taking the Oath, unfortunately I can't make it and have asked for a delay. Now: on the formal notification was a question "Will you have traveled overseas between the initial interview and the taking of the Oath" (or words to that effect). Well no I haven't, but if the next date is say a month or two away I might, (I travel on business quite often) should I avoid overseas travel until I actually take the Oath?
In the meantime we have not heard anything official about my daughters application her notice from the interview did say she would be informed by mail of a decision. Can't really get started on the probation thing until we get that - or can we?

Thanks again folks - Geoff
 
In the meantime we have not heard anything official about my daughters application her notice from the interview did say she would be informed by mail of a decision. Can't really get started on the probation thing until we get that - or can we?

She can't be approved before the probation is over, so if she wants approval for this citizenship application she needs to get the probation shortened and completed before they make a decision.
 
Hi again - just to let you know that I received my appointment for taking the Oath, unfortunately I can't make it and have asked for a delay. Now: on the formal notification was a question "Will you have traveled overseas between the initial interview and the taking of the Oath" (or words to that effect). Well no I haven't, but if the next date is say a month or two away I might, (I travel on business quite often) should I avoid overseas travel until I actually take the Oath?
You may travel between interview and oath as long as it doesn't put your continuous residency into question.

In the meantime we have not heard anything official about my daughters application her notice from the interview did say she would be informed by mail of a decision. Can't really get started on the probation thing until we get that - or can we?

Thanks again folks - Geoff
Regardless of whether she can get the probation shortened at this point, they can still deny her application based on the fact that she was on probation at interview. It's not just a matter of USCIS delaying adjudication until her probation is over.
 
... so if she wants approval for this citizenship application she needs to get the probation shortened and completed before they make a decision.
Since she already had interview and was still on probation at the time, shortening probation (or completing it) is not going to change anything.
 
Since she already had interview and was still on probation at the time, shortening probation (or completing it) is not going to change anything.

From BigJoe5's post #4, if the probation ends before adjudication, naturalization approval is possible. Of course, it's still unlikely as it would require a second interview or the IO being willing to review post-interview evidence of probation completion and also find that the long probation isn't reason enough to deny naturalization.
 
I can see an IO being more willing to accept delaying adjudication (instead of outright denial) when it is clear at interview that probation will end very shortly. However, if the IO is presented (at interview) with the evidence that probation will only end much later, a denial is inevitable. Considering that an attempt to reduce probation (via court process) after the interview takes time, it's pretty much useless to do so in the hopes that it will delay adjudication.
 
Considering that an attempt to reduce probation (via court process) after the interview takes time, it's pretty much useless to do so in the hopes that it will delay adjudication.

I certainly don't expect the adjudication to be delayed because of seeking the reduction of probation. But if the case remains undecided for a long time anyway, and they manage to obtain a reduction and completion of probation in the several months while it's still pending, the evidence of probation completion could be presented and maybe the case approved. Of course, the probability of that happening and resulting in approval is probably less than 0.1%, but the law doesn't rule out the possibility.
 
If the judge is sympathetic AND there have been no problems while on probation, the judge could just terminate the probation. If the court probation has already lasted 2 years or so, it is possible to get it terminated. Even if the N-400 is denied, that is not the end. An N-336 is possible and could very well be successful but a new N-400 would probably be faster and if the small difference in price ($30) is not a consideration, the better choice. She's young, she can wait a little while.
 
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Again thanks - we are getting some advice from a local attorney - I will let you know what happens. I am not in any danger of exceeding my continuous residency - trips are usually less than one week.

Geoff
 
Update 7/30 - Oath Ceremony

I thought I would pass this on for other folk.

My daughter took herself along to the local courthouse, got an appearance before the judge and asked for her probation to be terminated. I was not present but apparently the judge asked her, among other things, why she wanted to become a citizen. Its easy after the fact to be wise of course; one can reel off numerous admirable reasons, but Lizzie was somewhat unnerved by the question! The upshot was that the judge was sympathetic, however the local counsel asked for 250 days community service which was how it ended up. Actually not much use - my daughter works several jobs, goes to college and it would have been more than a year before she could have completed 250 hours (plus of course once again, you have to give people money!).

However today right out of the blue she received a letter notifying here that her oath ceremony was scheduled for one week from now! Go figure, it took three months but finally it seems somebody else looked at the original decision.

We are very relieved, in the meantime myself, my son and wife have taken the oath (and I am now the holder of an American passport).

One final comment on the whole episode: Throughout this whole sorry tale, at every turn it costs money, a young person could be forgiven for thinking that in order to solve something as serious as a DUI all that's needed is a pot of cash...

Once again thanks to all for the advice.

Geoff
 
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