People who were selected for DV 2012 (IMPORTANT)

[Kwame O]

Frankly there is no point trading insults about the whole lottery. The problem was not created by any one the entrants (initial winners and those who did not win). It was purely a programming error as said by DOS. In effect, no decision would be completely fair to anyone (both initial winner and those who did not win).

This forum was created for one purpose and for many different national with the same goal: going through the entire lottery program to receiving green card. But sadly, we are all having sharp opinions and ill-feelings. I hope the DOS will find a solution that would not hurt any one so we can all come together to maintain the sanctity of this forum void of insults and piercing words.

keep the 22,000 and redraw for the original 100,000 selectees making the total of 122,000. I think in that sense every one could be happy because DOS keeping the 22,000 would mean they are assuming responsibility for the error and redrawing for the original 100,000 will mean that they have corrected the error and has conducted a fair and random selection.

This is my personal perspective which I think satisfies both parties but I know some will still disagree.

 

[daffodil85]

I agree with everything you said. Besides, taking into account how many winners from the redraw won't be even able to check their status, US will not end up with more immigrants this time than any other time. They should let the initial selectees have the chance to apply for GC.

Frankly there is no point trading insults about the whole lottery. The problem was not created by any one the entrants (initial winners and those who did not win). It was purely a programming error as said by DOS. In effect, no decision would be completely fair to anyone (both initial winner and those who did not win).

This forum was created for one purpose and for many different national with the same goal: going through the entire lottery program to receiving green card. But sadly, we are all having sharp opinions and ill-feelings. I hope the DOS will find a solution that would not hurt any one so we can all come together to maintain the sanctity of this forum void of insults and piercing words.

keep the 22,000 and redraw for the original 100,000 selectees making the total of 122,000. I think in that sense every one could be happy because DOS keeping the 22,000 would mean they are assuming responsibility for the error and redrawing for the original 100,000 will mean that they have corrected the error and has conducted a fair and random selection.

This is my personal perspective which I think satisfies both parties but I know some will still disagree.

 

[jayo2k]

6 months...
first months : checking legitimate & illegitimate entries, checking photos among the 19 millions submited, checking duplicate entries... don't you think that this could take time?
second step: drawing
thirs step : creating data for the 100 000 selected ones, seting up interview ambassy point for each selected...
Do you realy think they do that within a day?
& in our case, they don't have to go through the first step since they use the same entries, they just launch the program... they just need the second & third step... creating data for 100 000 selected do not take a couple of hours...

If the selection is done within 1 day as you think, why did we have to wait for 6 months until the results were published? And why only 22,000 and not 100,000 were selected after such a long period of time? Also, if you say it takes only 1 day to make the selection, were 6 months not enough to detect a problem and solve it before publishing the results?

 

[GNH]

The state department has made mistakes before, but they never cancelled visa allocation or anything.
In July 2007, EB3 category became Current in the Visa bulletin by mistake. This has been corrected in three days. They did not cancel i-1485 applications sent by tens of thousands of people.

They have to...because otherwise they are violating the law.

The procedure and no of visas issued is mandated by Congress...the State dept cannot make things up as they go.

And stop the whining for gods sake!!

 

[astor]

Some people really confused this with promotional lottery;you can either promote your products by giving away same product or promote the name by giving away chance to win something(like money, car etc).The key here is "giving away chance to win". ."""worldwidespecialrisks.co.uk/gaming-lottery.""""" Simple you buy an insurance to cover the probability of someone winning!
PS. I can not post alink, but you can google it or paste the link above.

 

[dv2012x]

The main point here is that: with or without a computer error, the selection is still RANDOM.

As this situation is an "error", nobody knew about it. As a result, nobody could gain from it. Nobody knew that applying on the earlier dates would increase your chance. As a result the whole process is still RANDOM.

The selection process is a blackbox. The internal coding is NOT known. As a result people applied at any random time within the given time limits. The code could have selected applicants from any application time period.

This "error" has just ADDED to the RANDOMNESS.

Think of it like this: Assume that each application is a 1 penny coin dropped in a big jar. Also, assume the coins are made of iron. The selection is to be done by opening a hole at the bottom of the jar and let some random coins fall out. The coins falling out are the selected ones.

By "error" there is also a magnet in the jar as well. When the small hole is opened at the bottom of the jar it opens just below the magnet; the few coins (selectees) start falling through the hole. The magnet with all the coins stuck to it also falls through. Nobody knew that there was a magnet ("error") in the jar. So nobody tried to throw their coin next to the magnet.

The process is STILL COMPLETELY RANDOM.

Noone has been favoured.

There is no reason for the voiding.


Please let me know if you disagree.

 

[GNH]

The main point here is that: with or without a computer error, the selection is still RANDOM.

As this situation is an "error", nobody knew about it. As a result, nobody could gain from it. Nobody knew that applying on the earlier dates would increase your chance. As a result the whole process is still RANDOM.

The selection process is a blackbox. The internal coding is NOT known. As a result people applied at any random time within the given time limits. The code could have selected applicants from any application time period.

This "error" has just ADDED to the RANDOMNESS.

Think of it like this: Assume that each application is a 1 penny coin dropped in a big jar. Also, assume the coins are made of iron. The selection is to be done by opening a hole at the bottom of the jar and let some random coins fall out. The coins falling out are the selected ones.

By "error" there is also a magnet in the jar as well. When the small hole is opened at the bottom of the jar it opens just below the magnet; the few coins (selectees) start falling through the hole. The magnet with all the coins stuck to it also falls through. Nobody knew that there was a magnet ("error") in the jar. So nobody tried to throw their coin next to the magnet.

The process is STILL COMPLETELY RANDOM.

Noone has been favoured.

There is no reason for the voiding.


Please let me know if you disagree.

It was not random..because the random picks were not taken from the entire pool of eligible entries...the key word being entire

 

[dv2012x]

This does NOT matter.

As long as this selection method was NOT known, it does NOT matter.

Nobody knew that the first applicants would be selected. This is why it is called an "ERROR" and not "FRAUD". Consequently, nobody tried to apply first.
The system could have chosen the 2nd 100,000 or last 100,000.

Do you see that as long as nobody knows of this, the selection is still RANDOM?

Applicants applied at RANDOM and a group was chosen. As long as nobody knows the method these applicants are chosen, the selection is still RANDOM.


1- Assume that a program will choose 2 balls out of 10 balls at RANDOM and you ask me to order 10 balls next to each other for this program to choose from.
2- I order 10 balls that I have next to each other.
3- Then the program goes ahead and chooses the first 2.
4- The choice is still RANDOM.
5- I did NOT know that the program would take the first 2 balls. Consequently, I did not put the balls in any specific order.
6- The probability of any of these 2 balls to be chosen is still unchanged.

Nobody knew of the "ERROR" and NOBODY got an unfair advantage.
The program (and error) resulted in a certain group to be chosen. The people in this group are still RANDOM.

The "ERROR" could have made the program choose every 100th applicant. Or the first 50,000 and last 50,000.
All these choices are the internal workings of the BLACKBOX selection program.

As applicants we had no way of knowing this and we could not affect the selection process.

Therefore, the RANDOMNESS is NOT effected.


I think you are mistaking "random selection" to mean "uniformly distributed".

The program took as input ALL applicants and then, according to whatever its internal logic, selected a certain group.
The resulting group is a random selection from among ALL applicants.
The group selected does Not need to be "uniformly distributed" according to their application date & time.
The important point in randomness is that all applicants should have the same chance of being selected.
This was definitely the case, as long as all this was an "error" as declared.

If all this was planned to give someone an advantage over others, then someone could apply at a certain time to increase his/her chance to being selected.
Then only would the selection not be random anymore.
However, in that case it could not be called an "error" anyway.

To reiterate, an "error" indicates that noone knew of the programming details. Therefore noone had an advantage over others.
Consequently, everybody applied without knowledge of being able to manipulating the selection system.

Hence the selection is still RANDOM.

Without knowing how the system would make the selection, would you have been able to gain an unfair advantage? Would you know when or when not to apply?
No, you would not.

As a result the selection was still RANDOM from amongst ALL applicants.

It all comes back to the crucial point which I have repeated many times. As long as noone had any prior knowledge of the details of how the system would behave while selecting the "winners", nobody had an unfair advantage. And as this situation is an "error", this is definitely the case.

Simple question: Without knowing how the system would make its selection, could you have made anything to increase your chances of being selected. Simple Answer: NO.


I believe that cancelling the "winners" based on the statement that this was an unfair and non random selection is wrong.
Let aside human factors, it is wrong even mathematically.

 

[GNH]

This does NOT matter.

As long as this selection method was NOT known, it does NOT matter.

Nobody knew that the first applicants would be selected. This is why it is called an "ERROR" and not "FRAUD". Consequently, nobody tried to apply first.
The system could have chosen the 2nd 100,000 or last 100,000.

Do you see that as long as nobody knows of this, the selection is still RANDOM?

Applicants applied at RANDOM and a group was chosen. As long as nobody knows the method these applicants are chosen, the selection is still RANDOM.


1- Assume that a program will choose 2 balls out of 10 balls at RANDOM and you ask me to order 10 balls next to each other for this program to choose from.
2- I order 10 balls that I have next to each other.
3- Then the program goes ahead and chooses the first 2.
4- The choice is still RANDOM.
5- I did NOT know that the program would take the first 2 balls. Consequently, I did not put the balls in any specific order.
6- The probability of any of these 2 balls to be chosen is still unchanged.

Nobody knew of the "ERROR" and NOBODY got an unfair advantage.
The program (and error) resulted in a certain group to be chosen. The people in this group are still RANDOM.

The "ERROR" could have made the program choose every 100th applicant. Or the first 50,000 and last 50,000.
All these choices are the internal workings of the BLACKBOX selection program.

As applicants we had no way of knowing this and we could not affect the selection process.

Therefore, the RANDOMNESS is NOT effected.


I think you are mistaking "random selection" to mean "uniformly distributed".

The program took as input ALL applicants and then, according to whatever its internal logic, selected a certain group.
The resulting group is a random selection from among ALL applicants.
The group selected does Not need to be "uniformly distributed" according to their application date & time.
The important point in randomness is that all applicants should have the same chance of being selected.
This was definitely the case, as long as all this was an "error" as declared.

If all this was planned to give someone an advantage over others, then someone could apply at a certain time to increase his/her chance to being selected.
Then only would the selection not be random anymore.
However, in that case it could not be called an "error" anyway.

To reiterate, an "error" indicates that noone knew of the programming details. Therefore noone had an advantage over others.
Consequently, everybody applied without knowledge of being able to manipulating the selection system.

Hence the selection is still RANDOM.

Without knowing how the system would make the selection, would you have been able to gain an unfair advantage? Would you know when or when not to apply?
No, you would not.

As a result the selection was still RANDOM from amongst ALL applicants.

It all comes back to the crucial point which I have repeated many times. As long as noone had any prior knowledge of the details of how the system would behave while selecting the "winners", nobody had an unfair advantage. And as this situation is an "error", this is definitely the case.

Simple question: Without knowing how the system would make its selection, could you have made anything to increase your chances of being selected. Simple Answer: NO.


I believe that cancelling the "winners" based on the statement that this was an unfair and non random selection is wrong.
Let aside human factors, it is wrong even mathematically.

Because it is not a mathematical issue...the LAW mandates that the winners be chosen among ALL the eligible entries.

 

[dv2012x]

Assume that there are 1000 tiny balls in a toy train which has 10 seperate wagons.
Each wagon has 100 balls in it.
Someone tells you to randomly choose 100 balls.


It is not necessary for you to choose 10 balls from each seperate wagon.

You can randomly choose 50 from some wagons and 5 from others. You only need to make sure you choose 100 balls.

Or you might just randomly pick up a whole wagon...
And you still have chosen 100 random balls.


Nobody new that you would choose this particular wagon.
Noone had any unfair advantage.

The selection has taken into account ALL Wagons and ALL Balls and it is still RANDOM.

In our case the balls are the applications and the wagons correspond to the Application Dates.


Unless you can prove that any one applicant had any chance to manipulate the outcome of he system and gain any unfair advantage, I can not agree to the fact that this selection was not random.

In any case this discussion is probably nothing but a mind game

 

[GNH]

Assume that there are 1000 tiny balls in a toy train which has 10 seperate wagons.
Each wagon has 100 balls in it.
Someone tells you to randomly choose 100 balls.


It is not necessary for you to choose 10 balls from each seperate wagon.

You can randomly choose 50 from some wagons and 5 from others. You only need to make sure you choose 100 balls.

Or you might just randomly pick up a whole wagon...
And you still have chosen 100 random balls.


Nobody new that you would choose this particular wagon.
Noone had any unfair advantage.

The selection has taken into account ALL Wagons and ALL Balls and it is still RANDOM.

In our case the balls are the applications and the wagons correspond to the Application Dates.


Unless you can prove that any one applicant had any chance to manipulate the outcome of he system and gain any unfair advantage, I can not agree to the fact that this selection was not random.

In any case this discussion is probably nothing but a mind game

Actually in your case..the wagon should never have been used as a factor. The law is specific on that. The balls should have been divided based on geographic locations and then randomly chosen among the geographic locations.

 

[Chamalka]

Guys join the facebook page " US Green Card Lottery DV-2012 - 22,000 winners can't be ignored " http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_175930459121084&ap=1#!/dv2012...

 

[NuvF]

I agree with everything you said. Besides, taking into account how many winners from the redraw won't be even able to check their status, US will not end up with more immigrants this time than any other time. They should let the initial selectees have the chance to apply for GC.

I agree. But what if DoS do that and I walk out from the bar next day and file a lawsuit against DoS for doing so??

They do not take those chances my friend, 'cos they know pretty well that there are lot of drunkards like me walking the US streets waiting to sue the US gov!!

 

[Xpucu]

Hey... you guys talk like you are fully in with all the details around this error.

What if someone deliberately made the software to pick these days? (very unlikely)

What if the rest of the applicant were not include in the pool AT ALL? (very likely)

You do realize that if the selection was made only among the people who applied in the first two days, this will not be fair and these 22 000 winners MUST be voided.

How would you feel if your application was not considered in the draw at all?

Or to pitch in with the wagon slang from above:

Say you are to chose randomly 100 balls from 100 wagons. But what if you are shown only two of these wagons? Would this be fair?

I agree. But what if DoS do that and I walk out from the bar next day and file a lawsuit against DoS for doing so??

They do not take those chances my friend, 'cos they know pretty well that there are lot of drunkards like me walking the US streets waiting to sue the US gov!!

They are given the chance. The very same chance everyone else has.

You've got to calm down already, guys.

 

[daffodil85]

All this has gone too far. I wish luck to all the applicants on July 15th. It was a very eye-opening experience. People who were initially selected got hurt but will recover. But where do all these jealousy and hatred come from? There will never be people except the immediate families of course, who will truly be happy for GC winners. And this is reality. Nobody from those who was not notified of selection is really sorry for what has happened to us. What a shame!

 

[sonibago]

All this has gone too far. I wish luck to all the applicants on July 15th. It was a very eye-opening experience. People who were initially selected got hurt but will recover. But where do all these jealousy and hatred come from? There will never be people except the immediate families of course, who will truly be happy for GC winners. And this is reality. Nobody from those who was not notified of selection is really sorry for what has happened to us. What a shame!

WRONG! People are sincerely sorry for what happened and have expressed it. You choose not to believe this and that is your right.

 

[daffodil85]

You do what is appropriate to do. But aren't you happy that the results were canceled and you got another chance? Sure you are.

 

[falanku]

Hi, i've been selected for 2012 dv (2012EU0001XXX), got the bad news yesterday. Sent docs to KCC on 12th.
Will fight this till the end.
I've heard of a class lawsuit against the US government. I would also like to see what the glitch was, what do they consider random and what the definition of random for them is.
Will be calling Maryland Representatives in the Congress and Senate on monday.

Please could you share the results you get from the representatives, I am also planning to file a lawsuit very soon. I already processed all my documents and even made the payments. Because the instructions on the website were not very clear I even did my medicals already. I'm not going to do any of this for nothing. Will fight to the end too!

 

[whataboutno]

i am also planning to file a lawsuit very soon.

:d

 

[keona]

You do realize that if the selection was made only among the people who applied in the first two days, this will not be fair and these 22 000 winners MUST be voided.

Read an Listen to a guy - 90% of winners were from first two days and 10% from the rest of registration period. Read more carefully and do not write stupid comment.

WHY its not random 90% from first 2 days and 10% from the rest of the period. It's still random.