Out of the US before Advanced Parole

heng1234

Registered Users (C)
Hi. My wife and I are Canadians living in the US and I am the main applicant for the green card. We applied for I-485 last August and got the EAD and advanced parole in October.

However, my wife applied for TN (a one-year work permit for Canadians working in the US) at the Canadian/US border in September and the INS gave it to her. A friend told us that because my wife went to Canada before she got her advanced parole and EAD, this means she abandoned her application. My wife explained that she went into Canada with H4 status for 10 minutes and then turned around to the US INS for TN. But my friend said the fact that she left US means that she abandoned her application. We don’t seem to have any solution to this.

Any suggestion about this situation is sincerely appreciated!
 
heng1234 said:
Hi. My wife and I are Canadians living in the US and I am the main applicant for the green card. We applied for I-485 last August and got the EAD and advanced parole in October.

However, my wife applied for TN (a one-year work permit for Canadians working in the US) at the Canadian/US border in September and the INS gave it to her. A friend told us that because my wife went to Canada before she got her advanced parole and EAD, this means she abandoned her application. My wife explained that she went into Canada with H4 status for 10 minutes and then turned around to the US INS for TN. But my friend said the fact that she left US means that she abandoned her application. We don’t seem to have any solution to this.

Any suggestion about this situation is sincerely appreciated!

There should not be the problem of abandening. It was non-usable last time Now she can use AP when she goes next time.
Only you need to understand is TN visa is pure non-immigrant visa. I would use AP rather then a TN visa next time. Keep the EAD valid always.
 
Trouble

heng1234,
The status in which she left the US has absolutely no bearing here. The status we are concerned about is the one she ENTERED the US in. In her case she entered in "TN status", instead of "I-485 pending status"

Tammy2,
I think you're very wrong, here is my logic.

Here is the timeline:
1) Started in H4 Status. (Pre-August)
2) Applied for I-485. (August)
3) Entered the US using TN status (September)
4) Received EAD and AP. (October)

When she was in H4 status and applied for I-485 status, she remained in H4 status. H4 would have allowed her to enter the US without an advance parole document because it has a clause allowing for immigrant intent, and pursuing an I-485 does not nullify the H4 in any way.

Unlike an H4, when a person is in TN status and applies for I-485, the TN does not allow for dual intent. Although simply sending the I-485 application does not automatically nullify the TN status, and the person is in legal status, the TN status is nullified, when one of these situations occurs:
a) The TN expires.
b) The person quits the job related to their TN status.
c) The person switches jobs by using their EAD.
d) The person enters the US using their Advance Parole.
In either of these scenarios, the person's status changes from "TN status" to "I-485 pending status"

According to the law, when a person has demonstrated immigrant intent by applying for the I-485, this makes them ineligible to obtain a new TN status, or extend the existing one. It is for this reason that all lawyers handling TN -> GC cases recommend to their clients to make sure they have enough time left on their TN to make sure that their EAD arrives. (The recommended timeframe is about 4-6 months to allow time to get an interim EAD, if the actual EAD does not arrive in time.) If the TN were to expire, the person would be in "I-485 pending status" and would need an EAD to continue working, and an Advance Parole to enter the US after having left for a trip. If an EAD is not obtained in time, then the person must stop working. If an Advance Parole is not obtained in, then the person cannot re-enter the US from a trip abroad without explicitly abandoning their I-485.

Due to an error on the part of the officer at the either the POE or the PFI, (Canada has PFI at some airports) the person described above obtained TN status. This error probably occurred because it was too soon for the I-485 application to be visible in the computer system used by USCIS. This does not make it right though, since its up to the applicant, and not the officer, to know which status they wish to claim upon entering the US. It’s not the officer's fault. She asked for and qualified for TN status, so he gave it to her. Its was her choice to request TN status after having submitted an I-485, thus abandoning the I-485 in the same step. Why should the officer stop her? If she doesn't want a green card, that's fine with him. Let her have a TN.....

If an RFE were to be sent to this applicant at the adjudication time of the I-485 requesting proof of legal status during the entire period the person was in the US, this slight error may then be discovered by the adjudicating officer. Although she is continually in legal status, she no longer has a valid I-485 application. This may cause an issue with adjudication, or even an outright denial. I don't think an appeal nor a motion to reopen would help at that point either, since there is clear evidence of abandoning the I-485 application by applying for a non-immigrant status that does not allow dual intent when the I-485 was pending. On the other hand, since the dates are so close, USCIS may never notice, or if they do, they may just let it go. It’s a roll of the dice.

Technically, I believe she has abandoned her "I-485 pending status", and is currently in "TN Status". Whether it gets discovered or not is a risk that she needs to decide if she wants to take. I recommend seeking council that specializes in TN to Green card adjustment cases, as this could get really sticky later on in the game. www.grasmick.com

This could probably be corrected by filing a "Follow to join" as soon as possible, as she is currently in TN status. Just my suggestion.

The good news is that she is in legal status. The bad news is that she is not on track to getting a green card, unless she files a "Follow to join". Since her I-485 has been voided by applying for a TN, the automatically invalidates her EAD and Advance Parole document also, so make sure she does not work for anyone other than the employer mentioned on the TN (as that would be considered illegal employment), and make sure she does not leave the country until this is all straightened out.
 
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curiousGeorge said:
Technically, I believe she has abandoned her "I-485 pending status", and is currently in "TN Status". Whether it gets discovered or not is a risk that she needs to decide if she wants to take. I recommend seeking council that specializes in TN to Green card adjustment cases, as this could get really sticky later on in the game. www.grasmick.com This could probably be corrected by filing a "Follow to join" as soon as possible, as she is currently in TN status. Just my suggestion.

I disagree. The reason why USCIS requires you to have AP or L/H status on re-entry is that's the only status that you should be able to re-enter as. If you don't have any of those, then the I-485 would be abandoned since you couldn't re-enter. However, due to slow record entry, she was able to enter as a TN.

I highly doubt that USCIS will ever ask for proof of legal status *after* the I-485 was filed, since the I-485 automatically makes one in legal status and therefore this never needs to be verified.

I think we're fine.
 
TheRealCanadian said:
However, due to slow record entry, she was able to enter as a TN.


TheRealCanadian,
So are you saying she "slipped through a crack", and just happens to be lucky?

So the next question is, what is her status at this point? She can't have TN and H4 at the same time. Her TN voided her H4, and by applying for a TN and entering without an AP she voided her I-485.

Are you saying she's in TN status until one of these situations occurs:
a) The TN expires.
b) She quits the job related to their TN status.
c) She switches jobs by using their EAD.
d) She re-enters the US using their Advance Parole.
After which she would be in I-485 pending status?
 
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curiousGeorge said:
Her TN voided her H4, and by applying for a TN and entering without an AP she voided her I-485.

I don't necessarily think she voided the I-485 by entering on a TN. The whole abandonment of the I-485 without AP/H/L rests on the fact that once you have an I-485, you probably won't get readmitted unless you have these. The lack of legal admittance is what kills the I-485, nothing else.

Are you saying she's in TN status until one of these situations occurs

I have no clue what status she's in, but probably TN. I'd use AP for re-entry next time and be done with things. It's really quite amazing that the wife tried to get a TN.
 
Re

Thanks for all the replay.

Actually my wife now is working on her EAD card. Why did she apply for TN? Because she got a new job then. After she received her EAD, she changed her job using her EAD card. Is she working leaglly now?
 
TheRealCanadian said:
It's really quite amazing that the wife tried to get a TN.
TheRealCanadian,
I definitely agree with you on that one but with all the disorganization they have over there, anything is possible.


heng1234 said:
Is she working leaglly now?
Heng1234,
Its "seems" as if she's ok according to TheRealCanadian. If we assume for the purpose of this statement that she has not technically abandonded her I-485(which by the way I am not convinced of this just yet), then after having used the EAD to wotk, she is now in "I-485 pending status". She will need to file to renew her EAD every year, preferrably 3-5 months before the expiration date to ensure the new EAD arrives on time.
What does your lawyer say about this rare situation?
 
curiousGeorge said:
One but with all the disorganization they have over there, anything is possible.

Yes ofcourse. I am just curios to know from original poster that While getting TN visa there shoud be a question that Did you ever apply for Immigrant visa. what did she answer for that. If that answer was no does it create perjury?
 
My wife went to the border to apply for TN in person, and the INS officer did not ask her anything about immigration. My wife and I did not know her TN would ruin her I-485 application. If we know, we would not try it for sure. Also, my wife applied several TN before and the INS officer never asked her anything about immigration either. That is part of reason why we in such situation now.
 
tammy2 said:
While getting TN visa there shoud be a question that Did you ever apply for Immigrant visa.

The thing to remember is that the TN "visa" isn't really a visa. No I-129 or DS-156 is ever filed. You just show up at the border with an offer letter, $50 or $56 and a copy of your degree and you're done. The border officer can ask you lots of questions, or none. You get your I-94 and that's it.
 
heng1234
What category did u apply in ?EB1 ,EB2 or EB3. ?
If dont think there will be a problem for her if the I-485 is approved soon as they may not have information regarding the status on your recent entry or anything unless they generate an RFE.
If I-485 does not get approved sooner and takes longer you will need to renew the EAD.
when you apply for the next EAD there is a question about your last entry,status in which u entered the last time and current status.
So this may voluntarily give USCIS the information about the entry in TN status and may cause issues while processing.
Still it all depends on the adjudigating officer.Anything is possible with USCIS.If they dont clearly cross check everything then there is all possibility that the case will be approved.
 
If your wife still has valid AP, maybe she could go outside the border again for 10 min and come back on AP? This would shorten her TN time in USA...and convert her status from the last entry..
 
TheRealCanadian said:
The thing to remember is that the TN "visa" isn't really a visa. No I-129 or DS-156 is ever filed. You just show up at the border with an offer letter, $50 or $56 and a copy of your degree and you're done. The border officer can ask you lots of questions, or none. You get your I-94 and that's it.

Then there should not be any problem. I was not aware of TN visa process.
 
Green Card & Canadian Citizenship

I have Canadian Citizenship and US Green Card and I am
working in US now. I will get married in several
months and my spouse couldn't enter US without a visa.
I like my spouse to join me in a short period. As I
know, it takes several years for a green card hold to
sponsor his spouse for immigrant visa, and it isn't
guaranteed that she could get non-immigration visa.
Can I work in US using a TN visa - since I have
Canadian citizenship- and in this case she is eligible
for TD visa. Or are there other options that we could
use.

Spouse doesn't have Canadian Citizenship or residency

Your input is appreciated.
 
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GC05_CA04 said:
Can I work in US using a TN visa - since I have
Canadian citizenship- and in this case she is eligible
for TD visa.

No. Since you have a green card, you can't get TN status.

I suggest you start a new thread on your specific topic in the family based green cards section of this forum, as it does not exactly relate to the topic that we started discussing here:

http://www.immigrationportal.com/forumdisplay.php?f=39
 
curiousGeorge said:
heng1234,
What does your lawyer say about this situation?
Just talked with my lawyer and he said there are only two choices for my wife now: reapply for I-485 or apply for I-24 (Follow to join?), and he will check I-24 more because he thought it would more complicate than reapply for I-485. So, which choice is better? Also, if my wife reapplies for I-485, does her history (abandon I-485) will influence getting green card?
 
heng1234 said:
Just talked with my lawyer and he said there are only two choices for my wife now: reapply for I-485 or apply for I-24 (Follow to join?), and he will check I-24 more because he thought it would more complicate than reapply for I-485.

Has your attorney seen the processing times for I-824s these days? I'd wait to see what USCIS does. She was legally readmitted to the US, so to me the I-485 is still active. There are plenty of Canadians with pending I-485s that just get waved through without showing or using AP, and all is well.
 
TheRealCanadian said:
Has your attorney seen the processing times for I-824s these days? I'd wait to see what USCIS does. She was legally readmitted to the US, so to me the I-485 is still active. There are plenty of Canadians with pending I-485s that just get waved through without showing or using AP, and all is well.

The difference is that my wife using TN not L/H visa to re-entry to US without using AP. If she did not apply for TN and using L or H visa without AP, I think she would be OK.
 
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