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New York vs Los Angeles. Where to settle down for a couple of artists with the Green Card?

Edouard

Edouard

Member
Hi evrybody
This is the following of a former thread about a comparison between Florida and California as a good place to live in.
Let's take it as a story: my spouse and I have been selected for the DV-2015 with a high CN (EU437xx) but we cross the fingers and hope to get it for next year, end of summer, and fly right away to the States.
Now, the great question: where to settle down?
A few things about us, if it can help. We are both french, improving our english as far as possible. I am a professional writer (novelist) with a serious educational background (4 Master 2 in Political Sciences, High business school, Law and Cinema) but it was a long ago and I never use them excerpt for writing my fictions, 60 years old but with childish spirit. I'll still be a writer for my french editors but I do want to do something in the US, to earn our life of course, because the writers in France are note very rich people, and second I want to implicate myself in the move: maybe teaching, or writing in teams for TV or cinema, giving lectures… For all this, my choice would be to settle down in New York, but the life there is very expansive, especially in Manhattan. I don't like to drive and prefer walking the streets. So Manhattan near Central Park would be perfect. But the price is to put all the money out of the window or to live in a tin cane with a view on the next wall with rats in the closet, I don't feel so well at the idea! And live in the New Jersey… I remember too well what Barney said about it in How I Met Your Mother (a serial which gave me the taste of NY, as Friends a view years ago…).
Now, about my spouse. Younger (34), artist, actress, singer, dancer, painter, etc. She lacks of succeeding until now in France cause the artists are no longer considered here and want to have her chances in the States. But her choice until now is rather Los Angeles, because of the Hollywood studios, the recording studios of music, the californian sound and coolest way of life, the great weather (was are both from South of France and like sun more than snow). She got a view virtual contacts there who all say to her: "Come! It's paradise here!" I'm not sure there is paradise nowhere nowadays and the disillusion could be dramatic. But will she have the same opportunities in the Big Apple than in the Sun Belt? Not sure. And if she cannot succeed as an artist, the way of living could maybe be more fancy in LA. I don't know.

In fact we NEVER went to LA until now, only NY for a couple of days during the last New Year's Eve. It was fabulous but so cooooold! We had snow the last day and were obliged to stay 24 hours in the airport before leaving. And spent a lot of days in the warmth of the hotel room instead walking the streets because of the colds outside. So we didn't see a lot of things in NY but we felled like home.
Our best souvenirs: the musicals of Broadway, walking in Central Park, having beers or coffees in little shops, the Angus Beef, Time Square, The Jazz clubs…

So, here we are, guys… What do you thing about our personal case, if we can ask you?

Please to read you here...
 
Look many many artists live in NY but not many can afford to live in Manhattan. Many live in Brooklyn where rents are cheaper and there is a hipper/artsier vibe. The cafes in Brooklyn are filled with young artists! If you live close to a train line you can commute into Manhattan in a jiffy. The apartment may be smaller than if you spent the same $ in California but I couldn't say for sure- it would depend where you lived. The weather is colder in winter but with a tough New Yorker attitude, a good coat and some snow boots you just get on with life. If its any consolation this last winter was a very bad one and not typical of a NY winter- but yes it snows and snow is cold lol. I am Australian and it doesn't snow where Im from but I coped just fine. As far as career opportunities go I can't say whether she would have better luck in Cali vs NY- perhaps if film and TV is her passion then Cali but performing arts/visual arts/ writing etc- definitely NY!
 
My only experience of NYC was a nice sunny April afternoon in 1989 (lol) which I spent around Central Park to kill some time on stopover from Rio de Janeiro, Brazil to Frankfurt, Germany. I had just returned from my first ever overseas adventure, spending 6 months in Rio at age 18 (why did I ever leave that Samba town?). I will never forget that afternoon, full of visions, smells and impressions. I remember how I touched a multistory building in Manhattan and felt how cool the walls still were, as NY had only just awoken from winter. There were so many people laying on the lawns in Central park, enjoying the sun. - Sorry, I'm just dreaming....no help to your post, but I just had to share my memories ;)

Los Angeles .... the last time I was there was with my girlfriend (now wife). The year was 1993 I think (haha). Not much recollection of what we saw except for Hollywood Walk of Fame, some Jeans store across the road and a walk in the hills near the Hollywood sign with Downtown and smog hovering over the city...lol. We actually spent more time in San Diego, Las Vegas and San Francisco than LA - perhaps it was less intuitive to get around LA than it was elsewhere, so we may have 'avoided' most of it. ---- Again ... not much help to you here.

BTW...just wondering...since you are French - have you considered living in Montreal? Not sure what the art scene is like over there, I have not been to Canada myself yet but just thinking out loud.
 
Well done, OneTheGo… Your idea about Montreal is quite good, but my spouse is on the DV-2015 program for the Green Card! So, the States….
 
Well...only because she was selected in the DV lottery, doesn't mean that this has to be your only avenue to explore further. Not sure what the chances are of pursuing immigration to Canada, but I would still encourage you to look into all options...especially considering your wife's rather high CN.
 
You're right… I know Montreal and it is a rather great place to work with. But the winter is endless, and we prefer the american vibes. But if she fail on this GC cursus, we'll look perhaps for the Canada. But Toronto rather than Montreal.
 
From your description i would say 70% LA - 30% NYC

Weather: LA (if you don't like cold)
Family Suited: LA
Acting Opportunities: LA
Purchasing Power: LA
Lower Rents: LA

Things to Do: NYC
NightLife: NYC
Writing Opportunites: NYC (LA is close)
Cultural Diversity: NYC
Bachelor suited: NYC

In short NYC is better suited for you only if:
you don't have a money issue
can take the cold
you are very outgoing, full of energy and can't do without nightlife

In all other cases, LA seems more appropriate.

If you were both under 30, maybe you could try NYC but for 60 and 34 i would say LA seems a wiser choice
 
Waouh! Thank you so much, alberto1, it rings a bell!
LA seems indeed to be a good choice for both of us, if we can find a good location (we think rather to settle down in West Hollywood or maybe Santa Monica, if we can). We don't want to throw money out of the window and aren't so much night life fans.
My spouse would like to have acting opportunities, of course, but also in music, composing, writing texts, singing and so one for bands or composers. In the spirit of the former Sound City of LA (studio 606 since). With good californian harmonies and cool vibes. She would like also to be in healing movement, spirituality, shamanism, etc. LA seems to be the best but many people (on this forum and around us in France, people who know the two cities) have serious doubts about LA. This i s the reason why we need more advices…
When you say LA is close from NYC, you mean the flights are rapid and not so expansive?
Thanks gain...
 
Edouard said:
When you say LA is close from NYC, you mean the flights are rapid and not so expansive?
Thanks gain...
Click to expand...

no i mean it is a close second in terms of writting opportunities
a.k.a. you can pursue a novelist career in LA as well

Edouard said:
LA seems to be the best but many people (on this forum and around us in France, people who know the two cities) have serious doubts about LA.
Click to expand...

It makes sense... New York resembles French cities more than L.A.
Los Angeles is more American-ish if i can use that term, and a lot of European people might not like that very much.
 
I've never been to LA so I can't comment on that, but I have lived in NYC (in Manhattan) for several years and mostly agree with the others.

With that said, NYC is not as expensive as you think. However, you have to be smart about it and make a lot of contacts. I have lived in car-centric Northern Virginia, and I can tell you my expenses as a whole were LOWER in NYC. For instance, living in LA, you'll each need a car, insurance for each car and gas. That alone will cost you upwards of $600 monthly, assuming you get cheap cars. As newcomers to the country, you will not have a driving record or credit report (unless you find a way of transferring your info from France). This means you pay cash for your cars at the beginning and your insurance will cost at least $100 each, per month.

In NY, you can get a monthly unlimited metrocard for $125 each (at least that was the rate last year). You can ride the 24hr subway all day and night, same with the bus, and go to every part of the city. It's way cheaper for sure!

When it comes to housing, you can get decent places to live, but you will have to live far from Central Park!! That's a completely unrealistic dream right there so I'll have to cure you of it. At most, you may be able to live in southern Harlem (which is rapidly gentrifying) and be close to the northern end of the Park. But then again, that's the least interesting part of it as well. CP is also not the only park in Manhattan. My personal favorite is Riverside Park, and stretches along a huge chunk of the island's west coast.

In Inwood or Washington Heights (northern Manhattan), you can get decent places to live for an ok price. There are nice parks in Inwood as well. A decent 1-bedroom for $1,200-$1,400 is feasible, but you have to be diligent in your search. With that said, those neighborhoods are not exactly the hottest areas to move to, but they are gentrifying. They are also relatively far from downtown, and it would be a quicker commute from Brooklyn or Queens for sure. The housing outside of the NYC area is definitely newer and more comfortable, however, so if that's very important, LA should be your choice. You have to be ok with pre-war buildings to live in NY - there are many renovated units, so it's not all horrible or anything, but you'll pay accordingly.

When it comes to groceries, NY is very expensive if you shop at regular stores (like Fairway or Whole Foods, for instance). If you shop in 'ethnic' neighborhoods, it's cheap. For instance, a box of strawberries that's $4 in a regular supermarket is about $1 or $1.50 in Washington Heights! Chinatown in Manhattan, Flushing Meadows in Queens and Jackson Heights in Brooklyn are some of the other ethnic areas where I shopped sometimes when looking for good bargains. As a result, my grocery bills in NY were cheaper than in VA. So by saving quite a bit on transport and groceries, you can pay more for a decent apartment in Manhattan.

Another thing that may interest you as a French couple is that it seems there is a sizable French community in NY. I speak French too, and not a day went by when I didn't run into French people. One of the buildings I lived in had about a third of tenants from France. I don't know if such a thing exists in LA, but I think it's something to consider as new immigrants. You don't want to be completely isolated I assume.

Let me know if there's more info I could give you.
 
Just a comment, I know a couple (mid-30s) who've just moved to South Harlem, from the Upper West Side, to get more space for a more reasonable price (kid on the way). They are not the type to slum it so I would assume the gentrification is properly taking hold ;-)
 
I actually really like Harlem. I've lived in the southern part of Central Harlem (which is where I think your friends are) and I loved it. I certainly wasn't slumming it either :D. From 110th up to 125th, 5th Avenue and west-ward, are quite nice areas now. There are even French restaurants there :p. A lot of people though, particularly those new to the City, are stuck with imagining Harlem as a warzone. Its worst days were in the 80s and 90s. It's safe and comfortable nowadays. I actually really loved the community feel around it. It's the only place in Manhattan where random people smiled and said hello on a regular basis. Granted, it was on Sunday mornings as old ladies were leaving Church, but I'll take it :D
 
Thank you so much of all those quite reasonable informations! That helps… and make us hesitate! The two destinations have their own good and evil in fact.
Personally I'm rather found of NYC because I don't like to have a car in town and prefer walking. And this town reminds me a bit London and other big europeans towns. I feel at home in NYC, for the view I've seen until now and would perfectly take my little habits of the writer-who-let-his-desk-for-a-little-walk-between-two-chapters. I lived for years in Paris and am not so reluctant about cold and snow in winter.
My spouse is the one who push for the LA location, because of opportunities of working in her arts and meet artists, make her sport, benefit of a quite weather (she lived for years south of France), and so one. I don't mind at all this choice but for shure we won't have a car on the beginning, even in LA. I hate to be bloqued like an idiot in the circulation. So, if there's no way to move in LA, I'll stay writing at home!
According to the groceries and so one, it's rather the same. I don't' want to drive miles to have a reduced price on a grapefruit.
Quite a problem all this staff, isn't it? :rolleyes:
 
Hm, maybe you want to look further into that. My friends insist it is impossible to live without a car in LA. Even just being there for a week, staying in Santa Monica, we needed to rent a car eventually. There is obviously public transport, but ... You might also want to think about how you would really feel being basically isolated at home in a new country, especially while your wife is out and about doing things. It strikes me that one wants to do to make a successful move is immerse yourself as much as you can in your new surroundings? That just seems to me so much easier in NYC, and so easy to get to all the museums, theatres, Lincoln centre, the parks, galleries, etc etc by public transport. But again maybe I just don't know enough about LA or its neigborhoods on this score, it just seemed a lot harder to me to get to places.
 
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You're right, SusieQQQ, the need of having a car is THE black point about LA according to me. Because of the cost, of course, including assurance, and also because of the traffic. Grmmmbl… Why it ain't so easy to make one's choice! :confused:
 
An american translator I'm in touch with jumped from her chair went I wrote to her we intended to live in LA. She lives in Austin, Texas, and think LA (or NYC) are towns rather too expensive, especially for new french immigrants who want to work in arts. She mentioned Austin, share she lives, and also Santa Fe. Texas? Hum. In France we have serious doubts about Texas, qualified of "Deep America" not especially hospitable for the strangers. But maybe we're wrong. After aim, they have the Angus beef, isn't it? ;) Well. Maybe the best would be to land in NYC, to buy a car and travel all across the country from coast to coast and make up our mind. It will take 6 months and we'll be broken in the end! :oops:
I'm joking (am I?), that's the way to hyde one's confusion for a French.
So HELP!
 
I was wondering if there was somewhere other than NY and LA that could suit you as a kind of compromise. Well, I know quite a few people from my home country who have moved to Texas and they love it, but they are generally of a rather...conservative persuasion, shall we say? And they find that Texas suits them just fine on that count. And that is why, despite the cheaper cost of living, warm weather and job opportunities, Texas is not a place we have considered, but for people who do not think quite the same way we do it would probably be a good option. But that is in general, and I do not know anyone in the arts industry as such who is there.

For cheaper artsy towns, Santa Fe may well be the kind of thing you are looking for. Disclaimer, I was there a long long time ago so not sure what the scene is like now, but it was a really lovely town and definitely very artsy orientated. And the southwest is really stunning and beautiful in general. But also much more a natural beauty that you will be in, not at all the cosmopolitan vibe of the big cities on the east or west coasts. The thing is, I guess, you need to weigh up cost of living vs likelihood of finding work. Cheaper rent doesn't help if there are no jobs to be found (ask those in Detroit). And as you will stay at home and write I guess the pivot is what your wife can do. Is there really all that much for your wife in Austin in her line of work?? Maybe she and you can do some online searching and see. Or maybe just search for the types of jobs she is interested in, without limiting by state and see if there are any other places that seem to come up regularly?
 
I guess you're right, SusieQQQ. And I don't know any friend who thinked or dreamed to live in Texas! My wife, in fact, is until now 100% for LA, but I anticipate the disillusion always possible… If she succeed in arts, music and movies and if we can afford a car and a condo in West Hollywood in LA, no problem for me! But if we have to live only with my french writer's rights, hum… We'll finish as servers in MacDonald's! (she will, 'cause I'll be an hobo by then…):(
It has to be said that life is VERY difficult for artists nowadays in France. It's quite impossible in fact to bring bacon home in writing, except for a very few best sellers products. And it's going worts and worst. I'm not particularly bashing France, but… Anyway, you understand...
 
If you want a place that suits both of your interests (acting, writing, other arts, etc.), then close to L.A. is a good choice, and there are options other than living directly in L.A. One of my friends moved to Van Nuys and he pays $1k for a 1000 sqft apartment (two bedrooms), so getting a condo there would definitely be cheaper than L.A. Van Nuys is about an hour out of L.A. You'd still need a car there, but the money you save in housing can go to a car. Another option is Santa Barbara, which is a good walking city and many writers and artists live there. You can manage without a car and just a bicycle. Its expensive (but much cheaper than L.A.) and about a 2 hour train ride from L.A., so its possible to go into L.A. for occasional auditions, but can be tiring if going to L.A. daily.
 
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