Name change and Naturalization Certificate

#1
Hello,
We were naturalized in 2008 when my son was age 6 years. He was born outside of USA and we all came through visa lottery Green Card in 2002. We did not apply for a N-600 naturalization certificate before for son, but want to get it done now.
He has had a U.S. passport as proof of citizenship so far.
My question is:
He is age 18 now and we made a legal correction to his name when he was 16.
Do we fill out a N-600 or N-565?
If you have been in this situation please share your experience as all information will be very valuable to me.
Thanks very much.
 

Fin

Registered Users (C)
#2
Just a question, why are you feeding the USCIS coffers by applying for a citizenship certificate? US Passport is a conclusive proof of US citizenship, so there is technically no difference there. This is federal law. If you need additional proof, get a passport card for $30. In case he loses his passport, state department has records and you can request for a file search (in case you do not have a copy). If I were you, I’d just apply for a passport card and keep a few copies of the passport or save a pdf on my email. Nothing else is needed.
 

SusieQQQ

Well-Known Member
#3
Just a question, why are you feeding the USCIS coffers by applying for a citizenship certificate? US Passport is a conclusive proof of US citizenship, so there is technically no difference there. This is federal law. If you need additional proof, get a passport card for $30. In case he loses his passport, state department has records and you can request for a file search (in case you do not have a copy). If I were you, I’d just apply for a passport card and keep a few copies of the passport or save a pdf on my email. Nothing else is needed.
there have been enough posts of people having problems later in life despite having had a passport (example being told the initial passport was issued in error), especially once parents are passed and the required proof has been lost, that there are definitely some who want a CoC on record for their minor children who naturalized automatically. You might see it as a waste of money, others see it as, let’s say, an insurance premium.
 
#4
Thank you for responding. Fin, I would love to not have to pay 1000+ USD but like SusieQQ says laws can change anytime down the line and we only want to do what is right by our son so that he is not put in a difficult situation later in life. We could not afford the $600 fees back then but now it is over $1000 and my son is 18 so we have little choice.
 

Sm1smom

Super Moderator
#5
Just a question, why are you feeding the USCIS coffers by applying for a citizenship certificate? US Passport is a conclusive proof of US citizenship, so there is technically no difference there. This is federal law. If you need additional proof, get a passport card for $30. In case he loses his passport, state department has records and you can request for a file search (in case you do not have a copy). If I were you, I’d just apply for a passport card and keep a few copies of the passport or save a pdf on my email. Nothing else is needed.
A very wise decision on OP’s part IMO, and not simply a case of feeding the USCIS coffers. Will do the same if I was in OP’s shoes - seen and read of too many horror stories in this forum and others to consider this move a frivolous spending.
 

Fin

Registered Users (C)
#6
I understand what Susie is saying and why you are doing it, but to put it in perspective, such cases have seem to be extremely rare and can be easily proved if the child has records of the parents citizenship. For example, in the rare case that the DoS claims that the initial passport was issued in error, he can show your naturalization certificate or a copy of your passport plus his birth certificate (to show that he was below 18 when you naturalized). Again, I’m in no way dissuading you from applying for certificate of citizenship for your children but just giving my own perspective since the process is expensive and takes around a year. I just don’t want people who cannot afford it to go ahead and break their bank thinking that their kids might get their citizenship revoked one fine day. It’s highly unlikely and can easily be disproven as I explained.
 

SusieQQQ

Well-Known Member
#7
if the child has records of the parents citizenship. .
That’s exactly the point, IF. People often lose these types of things when parents die. Personally, I don’t care if it’s rare, i find the price cheap for a lifetime’s worth of peace of mind for my kid. YMMV.
by the way, the process does not always take around a year, I applied for my kid 15 Nov last year and her case was approved 27 February.
 

Fin

Registered Users (C)
#8
That’s exactly the point, IF. People often lose these types of things when parents die. Personally, I don’t care if it’s rare, i find the price cheap for a lifetime’s worth of peace of mind for my kid. YMMV.
by the way, the process does not always take around a year, I applied for my kid 15 Nov last year and her case was approved 27 February.
Oh I absolutely understand why people are cautious and the piece of mind thing. Also just throwing it out there, even if the kids do not have a copy of parents’ naturalization certificate or passport, they can always do a FOIA and get it. But yeah, if you can afford it, it’s fine to get the certificate. However such administrative revocation of citizenship is not a small matter and is not taken lightly under federal law.
 
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SusieQQQ

Well-Known Member
#9
its not even always revocation of citizenship, can be much more mundane, seen things like people trying to sponsor family members and not being able to provide acceptable proof of citizenship to do so. I see about one post every few months of someone having hassles somewhere or the other on this. Yeah sure you can leave it up to your kid to try get a FOIA request in 30 years time when he doesn’t know any of your “numbers” (A number, ssn, CoN etc) that they normally need to look these things up and spend money and time etc on it tracking it all down then, as well as trying to find retroactive acceptable proof he or she was in your legal and physical custody at the time you naturalized. But kid will always know own ssn and can get CoC that way even if lost.

(also whether or not it’s a real legitimate concern I don’t know but I have seen people mention that because passport is DoS and not USCIS like CoN or CoC, it is not as reliable. that wasn’t my reason for doing it, but I have seen people mention it.)
 
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Fin

Registered Users (C)
#10
its not even always revocation of citizenship, can be much more mundane, seen things like people trying to sponsor family members and not being able to provide acceptable proof of citizenship to do so. I see about one post every few months of someone having hassles somewhere or the other on this. Yeah sure you can leave it up to your kid to try get a FOIA request in 30 years time when he doesn’t know any of your “numbers” (A number, ssn, CoN etc) that they normally need to look these things up and spend money and time etc on it tracking it all down then, as well as trying to find retroactive acceptable proof he or she was in your legal and physical custody at the time you naturalized. But kid will always know own ssn and can get CoC that way even if lost.

(also whether or not it’s a real legitimate concern I don’t know but I have seen people mention that because passport is DoS and not USCIS like CoN or CoC, it is not as reliable. that wasn’t my reason for doing it, but I have seen people mention it.)
I ran into a 3rd circuit opinion in US v Moreno where it interprets 22 U.S.C. § 2705 that a passport will serve as conclusive proof of citizenship only if it was issued by the Secretary of State to a citizen of the United States. So if the Government claims that the person was not a citizen when the passport was issued, the passport cannot be used as an evidence of citizenship. The 9th Circuit and a number of district courts do not agree with this interpretation and hold that a passport is a conclusive proof as it is only issued to citizens. So, there is a split in the opinions and SCOTUS has not decided this issue. Based on this, I take back my original advice. I think for now, its a good idea to apply and get a certificate of citizenship if you can afford it. But again, I'm not sure if the CoC can be conclusive proof either. Technically speaking, the government can use the same logic to attack it's validity as well.
 
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