N600 eligibility question (LPR since 2 years old, 39 now, parents naturalized when I was 8)

[FullofQuestions]

I came to the US with my parents when I was 2 years old back in 1975 (I am 39 now) and had a Green Card ever since first entering this country. Both my parents became US citizens in 1983 when I was 8 years old. As mentioned I am 39 now and am finally looking to get US Citizenship. As I understand it, I could file for the COC (n600) versus the naturalization path (N400) since I was under the age of 18 when my parents became US Citizens (both parents still together) under the laws preceding the CCA (which is both parents had to be naturalized and I was living with both in their custody prior to my 18th bday)? I am also getting married in a month, and also wanted to be sure that I had to be under 18 and unmarried at the time my parents naturalized back in '83 (or unmarried prior to 18) and not necessarily unmarried now when i apply under N600 to qualify as a "child" under the law? Just want to be sure that I had to be defined as a "child" back in the 80's prior to my 18th bday, and not necessarily now in order to apply for a COC under N600?

Reason why i'm confused about the "child" aspect is from all the reading on this forum, I was referred to a link for the Nationality Chart#3 which stated that "period in which last action took place" under on/after 19/5/78 and prior to 2/27/01 row..........I was LPR before the age of 18 and both parents were naturalized, however in the remarks it says "Child unmarried". Just want to be sure unmarried as in back then versus now to qualify.

Many thanks in advance.

 

[Jackolantern]

Your marital status or immigration status or any kind of other status after age 18 doesn't matter. Once you met the applicable criteria (based on the laws back then) for derivative citizenship before age 18, you can claim citizenship at any age after that, and if your claim is successful your citizenship will be recognized retroactively to start before your 18th birthday.

However, if you were adopted, it gets more problematic because the pre-CCA laws required adoptive parents to proactively apply for their child's citizenship.

 

[FullofQuestions]

Your marital status or immigration status or any kind of other status after age 18 doesn't matter. Once you met the applicable criteria (based on the laws back then) for derivative citizenship before age 18, you can claim citizenship at any age after that, and if your claim is successful your citizenship will be recognized retroactively to start before your 18th birthday.

However, if you were adopted, it gets more problematic because the pre-CCA laws required adoptive parents to proactively apply for their child's citizenship.

Thanks Jack, I wasn't adopted, so no issues there.

Regarding whether or not I file the N600, am I right in thinking I file the N600 versus the N400 given my situation? I believe the only difference between the pre-CCA 2001 law and new CCA law is that pre-2001, BOTH parents had to have been citizens or naturalized prior to my 18th bday and I had to be living with both? Now I believe it's only 1 parents that would make you eligible? Is that right or do I file the N400? My fear is I don't want to file the N400 only to have them say I have to file the N600. Thanks.

 

[Jackolantern]

Regarding whether or not I file the N600, am I right in thinking I file the N600 versus the N400 given my situation?

Yes, N-600 is the correct choice for you, and filing N-400 would have a high risk of being rejected and told to file N-600.

I believe the only difference between the pre-CCA 2001 law and new CCA law is that pre-2001, BOTH parents had to have been citizens or naturalized prior to my 18th bday and I had to be living with both?

That's not the only difference, but that could be considered the main difference. There are some other important differences for adopted children -- under the old law, the adoptive parents had to explicitly apply for their child's citizenship, it wasn't automatically conferred based on the parents having citizenship before the child's 18th birthday.

Now you have the tedious task of digging up evidence of their marriage, their naturalization, and you living with them as a child (school records are valuable for this purpose). Although this shouldn't be terribly difficult for you since they're both alive and still together.

 

[Jackolantern]

I came to the US with my parents when I was 2 years old back in 1975 (I am 39 now) and had a Green Card ever since first entering this country. Both my parents became US citizens in 1983 when I was 8 years old.

Wouldn't that be 10 years old? If you were 2 years old in 1975, you'd be 10 years old in 1983.

 

[FullofQuestions]

Jack, wondering if I could pick your brains a bit more. According to Nationality Chart #3 (for time around 1986) Under the definition of "both parents" there is a reference to "The alien parent who naturalizes when the other parent is already a USC" Does that mean that at least one parent had to be a US Citizen before the other one naturalized for me to have derived citizenship (almost implies one of the parents had to be US citizen prior to the other one)? Both my parents naturalized at the same time.

Also, online I'm also reading that at the time they naturalized they needed to list me in some paperwork for me to claim derived citizenship in the future? Wondering if you heard anything about this?

Thanks!!!

 

[sarwarmd]

I am not sure Jack reads old threads.
I guess USCIS may not act without any paper document to believe that what you or any body is saying is true.

Jack, wondering if I could pick your brains a bit more. According to Nationality Chart #3 (for time around 1986) Under the definition of "both parents" there is a reference to "The alien parent who naturalizes when the other parent is already a USC" Does that mean that at least one parent had to be a US Citizen before the other one naturalized for me to have derived citizenship (almost implies one of the parents had to be US citizen prior to the other one)? Both my parents naturalized at the same time.

Also, online I'm also reading that at the time they naturalized they needed to list me in some paperwork for me to claim derived citizenship in the future? Wondering if you heard anything about this?

Thanks!!!

 

[Jackolantern]

Jack, wondering if I could pick your brains a bit more. According to Nationality Chart #3 (for time around 1986) Under the definition of "both parents" there is a reference to "The alien parent who naturalizes when the other parent is already a USC" Does that mean that at least one parent had to be a US Citizen before the other one naturalized for me to have derived citizenship (almost implies one of the parents had to be US citizen prior to the other one)? Both my parents naturalized at the same time.

Whether they became citizens at the same time or different times doesn't matter. The timing that matters is that both were citizens before you turned 18 (and obviously other requirements such as you having a green card before age 18 etc.).

Also, online I'm also reading that at the time they naturalized they needed to list me in some paperwork for me to claim derived citizenship in the future? Wondering if you heard anything about this?

That's only for adopted children, where under the old law the citizen parents had to explicitly apply for their adopted children's citizenship before their 18th birthday. That doesn't apply to you, who can claim derivative citizenship based on the naturalization of your biological parents, even though they never applied for your citizenship documents.

Stop wasting time, go ahead and file the N-600!

 

[FullofQuestions]

Whether they became citizens at the same time or different times doesn't matter. The timing that matters is that both were citizens before you turned 18 (and obviously other requirements such as you having a green card before age 18 etc.).


That's only for adopted children, where under the old law the citizen parents had to explicitly apply for their adopted children's citizenship before their 18th birthday. That doesn't apply to you, who can claim derivative citizenship based on the naturalization of your biological parents, even though they never applied for your citizenship documents.

Stop wasting time, go ahead and file the N-600!

Thanks Jack, yes i'm trying to gather supporting documentation, unfortunately speaking to my parents, they don't seem to have a marriage certificate (married in Korea and immigrated here and apparently they don't have a copy of it or there was no concept of such documentation in Korea back then?). Doesn't seem like they even have any sort of birth certificate for me being born in Korea if a birth certificate of some kind is required. What I do have going for me is that they both have their original certificates of naturalization but seems like that's about it. Regarding proving me living in their physical custody back in 1983, I assume some kind of elementary school record or document with my address and them listed as parents at same address will suffice? And if so, I would only need it for the year 1983 or a range of years?

Honestly given the requirement to have such old (possibly no longer existing documentation) I might be better off just applying under N400 but...........then my fear is the N400 application getting rejected and being told to go the N600 route with the accompanying loss of time and $$$.

 

[Jackolantern]

Thanks Jack, yes i'm trying to gather supporting documentation, unfortunately speaking to my parents, they don't seem to have a marriage certificate (married in Korea and immigrated here and apparently they don't have a copy of it or there was no concept of such documentation in Korea back then?).

If they were married, they probably had to provide evidence of the marriage during the immigration process, so the marriage certificate (or whatever other official document of their marriage) must be in their immigration file and/or at a Korean government agency and/or in their house somewhere. Which Korea -- North or South? Obviously they won't be able to obtain anything from North Korea, but those records should be available from South Korea.

Doesn't seem like they even have any sort of birth certificate for me being born in Korea if a birth certificate of some kind is required.

You have to prove the parental relationship in order to claim successfully citizenship through your parents. They probably had to prove that when you immigrated along with them.

What I do have going for me is that they both have their original certificates of naturalization but seems like that's about it.

Do the certificates show their marital status?

Regarding proving me living in their physical custody back in 1983, I assume some kind of elementary school record or document with my address and them listed as parents at same address will suffice? And if so, I would only need it for the year 1983 or a range of years?

A few months of evidence should be sufficient, but multiple years may be more convincing. School records are considered to be very good evidence. If you're only showing for 1983, make sure it includes part of the year after the specific date they naturalized.

 

[FullofQuestions]

If they were married, they probably had to provide evidence of the marriage during the immigration process, so the marriage certificate (or whatever other official document of their marriage) must be in their immigration file and/or at a Korean government agency and/or in their house somewhere. Which Korea -- North or South? Obviously they won't be able to obtain anything from North Korea, but those records should be available from South Korea.


You have to prove the parental relationship in order to claim successfully citizenship through your parents. They probably had to prove that when you immigrated along with them.


Do the certificates show their marital status?


A few months of evidence should be sufficient, but multiple years may be more convincing. School records are considered to be very good evidence. If you're only showing for 1983, make sure it includes part of the year after the specific date they naturalized.

South Korea...........though USCIS put "Korea" on my green card when I got it last renewed instead of "Korea, South" as they had in my previous one. Also, seemed to have dropped a few letters from my first name on the front of the green card (though the back of the green card has my full complete name). Such headaches.

My parents are trying to dig up their Certificates of Naturalization...........if marital status is listed on it, I'm assuming it will say "Married" however until I see it with my own eyes, i will be stressing over this. I remember a few years back, my parents showing me their passports at the time of immigration and back then, apparently my siblings and I (since we were babies) didn't have individual passports but we were all listed under my mom's passport, but i'm not sure if that by itself is proof of anything as far as obtaining my Certificate of Citizenship is concerned, but should provide additional support that she was our mother.

Regarding school records, my parents "gave" me an American name to go by when I was in school, i don't recall if this began in elementary school or middle school, but to make a long story short, my school records at the time my parents naturalized may very well be under my "American" name and not my "legal" Korean name (name that is on my green card). In fact I know by High School, my records were all under this American name, in fact I even have a driver's license under my American name, and my high school/college records have my American name, all of my financial records are under this american name, heck even my marriage certificate is under the american name, etc. Hopefully this does not pose too serious a problem since the N600 form does ask if i've gone by any other names. I assume I just list my American name here for this exact reason?

I know that the N600 process does not allow me to legally change my name as the N400 process might (depending on area), but in my case would it make sense to complete a legal name change prior to submitting the application so that the Certificate of Certification will have my "American" name that I want to go by (and that all my financial, most of school, college, work records know me by) on it versus the Korean name that none of my adult life records reflect? Additionally, will a Certificate of Certification have a date of citizenship on it like I assume the Certificate of Naturalization would have and if so, would the COC reflect a citizenship date of when my parents became citizens (and hence I derived citizenship on that date by action of law) or a citizenship date of when USCIS issues the COC?

Once again thanks a ton for all your help!!!

 

[FullofQuestions]

Wanted to post an update on this thread I started for anyone in a similar situation. Just received my US Passport based on derived citizenship from my parents. I submitted the following:

1) Both parent's naturalization certificates
2) Korean birth certificate with parent's names on it (I was able to get an official copy of mine through the Korean consulate) - birth certificate had to be translated into English and notarized
3) Current green card (which showed that I was a legally admitted permanent resident prior to my parent's naturalization)
4) Primary school records listing my parents and showing I was living at the same address as my parents, which also matched up with the address on their naturalization certificates (just to be sure, I submitted primary, middle, and high school records - so there was a continuous record of me living with my parents before and after their naturalization)
5) As a FYI, even if the Department of State website says you will need your parent's marriage certificate, having "Married" listed on the parent's naturalization certificates, having them listed as your parents on your birth certificate, and having them listed as your parent's on your school records, is sufficient proof that they are married and that you're their kid.

Due to the the value of the above documents (especially my parent's naturalization certificates), I did not want to entrust it to the postal service so with less than 2 weeks to go for an international trip, I walked into the local US passport agency, submitted all of the above, and went back the next day and they had my US passport waiting for me and they gave back all of the above documents.

Just wanted to thank everyone here for their help!!! Based on previous posters experiences and some great advice (especially from Jackolantern), I went to the passport agency prepared to prove my derived citizenship and well it turns out that i've been a US Citizen for over 30 years and didn't even know it!!!

 

[Jackolantern]

That's great news!

Are you planning to apply for the N-600 soon after you return from your trip? For N-600 you only need to send copies of the documents with the application. If they want to see originals they'll ask to see them when you go to pick up the certificate.

 

[FullofQuestions]

That's great news!

Are you planning to apply for the N-600 soon after you return from your trip? For N-600 you only need to send copies of the documents with the application. If they want to see originals they'll ask to see them when you go to pick up the certificate.

Once again thanks for the help!!!

As for the N600, yes I do plan on submitting an application for it at some point when I return. I'm going to have to look into exactly what I would need to submit for that process to go as smoothly as the passport application process (though I realize it could be an upwards of 1 year process). My biggest fear is if i'm ever in a situation where I lose my passport and need to prove my citizenship again, to have some other piece of documentation (though I did also apply for and received a passport card as a "backup" just in case).

By the way, if i'm ever asked by an official as to "when" I became a US Citizen, i'm assuming I can list the date of my parent's Naturalization?

 

[Jackolantern]

For the N-600, submit copies of all the same documents you provide for the passport application, plus a copy of the identifying pages of your US passport. The lack of your parents' marriage certificate should not be a problem, assuming they already supplied evidence of their marriage to USCIS during the green card process and/or naturalization.

By the way, if i'm ever asked by an official as to "when" I became a US Citizen, i'm assuming I can list the date of my parent's Naturalization?

Yes. But depending on who you're talking to and their response to your answer, especially if it's an immigration officer at a computer who can see the history of your entries and exits with a green card, you may have to explain that you didn't realize you qualified for derivative citizenship until recently so that's why you were traveling with a green card.

 

[FullofQuestions]

For the N-600, submit copies of all the same documents you provide for the passport application, plus a copy of the identifying pages of your US passport. The lack of your parents' marriage certificate should not be a problem, assuming they already supplied evidence of their marriage to USCIS during the green card process and/or naturalization.


Yes. But depending on who you're talking to and their response to your answer, especially if it's an immigration officer at a computer who can see the history of your entries and exits with a green card, you may have to explain that you didn't realize you qualified for derivative citizenship until recently so that's why you were traveling with a green card.

Yes, for the N600, i'm hoping with my parent's naturalization certificates, USCIS would be able to "look" up any documents that I'm unable to get a hold of myself.

Regarding "official" date of citizenship, the scenario you posed is what gives me a little concern. I've traveled my whole life with a korean passport and green card and now all of a sudden i'm traveling with a US Passport. I'm not sure what questions the immigration officer might ask upon my return (i'm even contemplating bringing my korean passport and green card with me as a "just in case" there's something wrong with the US Passport.....I know call it paranoia, but this is all a bit surreal for me knowing I was a US Citizen this whole time), but if they were to ask for my "date" of citizenship, I will certainly explain to them that I derived citizenship through my parents. I remember several years back when returning from an overseas the trip, the US immigration officer even asked me why if I was a LPR since 1975, why I didn't obtain my citizenship yet. I remember telling him, that my parents were naturalized when I was a kid, but that I just haven't gotten around to it yet and i was kind of embarrassed that I didn't.

 

[Jackolantern]

I'm not sure what questions the immigration officer might ask upon my return (i'm even contemplating bringing my korean passport and green card with me as a "just in case" there's something wrong with the US Passport.....

Now that you're officially recognized as a US citizen, don't EVER* show your non-US passport when entering the US at the border or airport. Don't even think about it. They will send you to the secondary inspection room and massacre you with interrogation.

You are a US citizen, period, and don't say, do, or show anything to a US government official that indicates otherwise, unless they specifically force you (as described below).

You're not supposed to keep the green card either, so don't show it at the border. Give it back to USCIS when you go to pick up the N-600 certificate.


*exception: if they specifically ask if you have another citizenship, and also specifically ask to see your other passport, show it if you have it.

 

[FullofQuestions]

Now that you're officially recognized as a US citizen, don't EVER* show your non-US passport when entering the US at the border or airport. Don't even think about it. They will send you to the secondary inspection room and massacre you with interrogation.

You are a US citizen, period, and don't say, do, or show anything to a US government official that indicates otherwise, unless they specifically force you (as described below).

You're not supposed to keep the green card either, so don't show it at the border. Give it back to USCIS when you go to pick up the N-600 certificate.


*exception: if they specifically ask if you have another citizenship, and also specifically ask to see your other passport, show it if you have it.

Thanks Jackolantern for the advice. I wasn't planning on showing a secondary passport. I guess it's just nervousness flying with a new passport for the first time. I might as well not even bring the korean passport and green card on the trip and trust that all will work out with the US Passport and the knowledge that i'm a US Citizen

I'm so excited that i'll finally be voting in my first presidential election in 2016.............

 

[Jackolantern]

I might as well not even bring the korean passport and green card ...

Don't carry the green card, but if you're going to visit Korea you probably should use the Korean passport to enter there. Most countries expect you to use their country's passport to enter if you're a citizen of the same country, and some legally require it.

 

[cafeconleche]

If I were you I would always carry both passports unless there is a known risk in doing so. As Jackolantern says, the GC is invalid since you're a citizen, no use taking it. You'll be asked for it when you get your CoC.

You're a US citizen. Don't be afraid of a US border unless you're smuggling something or doing something nefarious. If they want you dead, a drone could strike you anywhere, at any time, anyway...