N-600 without naturalized US Citizen parent’s birth certificate

[AlwaysWorried]

Hello everyone.

Here is a background story for a better understanding:

I was born in 2003 and my father became a naturalized US citizen in 2005. When he got naturalized I was living abroad, not with him in the States. And in 2017 when I was 14 years old my father applied for me. It was approved by the US embassy and I got an IR2 Visa to come live with my father in the U.S. A few weeks after I arrived in the US we received my green card in our mail. Me and my father where living together but unfortunately things went downhill and on my 18th birthday I decided to leave for my mental health. While living on my own I lost my green card and when I was trying to replace it I learned that I am a US citizen under INA 320. And I was also told that I could either apply for a US Passport or a Certificate of Citizenship. The N-600 cost A LOT OF MONEY FOR ME and it takes a long time to have so I went ahead and applied for my US passport with the following evidence:

-My foreign original birth certificate with my US Citizen father’s name on it and a translation.

-Positive DNA test of me and US Citizen father.

- My father’s original certificate of naturalization.

-My foreign passport with the IR2 visa and I-551 stamp in it.
-And medical records with my name and my father’s address on it to proof that I was living with him.

Fortunately for me I received my US Passport in the mail. So I now have a valid 10-years United State Passport to prove my citizenship/nationality. I thought that was the end of it but on Reddit, Quora and even on here I saw people saying that a US passport doesn’t always work as proof of US Citizenship and that the passport is only Prima Facie (still not sure what that means) proof of Citizenship and that if I lose my US Passport or if the laws to renew it change I’ll be royally screwed. So I decided that I will use my savings and borrow money from my mother to apply for a Certificate of Citizenship through form N-600 to be on the safe side because it doesn’t expired like the passport. I looked for the documents needed as evidence for the N-600 and I was happy/smiling because I got all of ´em but my smiling slowly disappeared when I saw and realized that I was missing one required document: The Birth Certificate of my naturalized US Citizen Father. And there’s no way I can get it because my father is uncooperative. He once threatened me that he was gonna go lie about lying to USCIS to put me in trouble with immigration. That means that he was gonna tell them that he lied on my application for a green, which is completely false because everything was done legally and he didn’t lie whatsoever, he and his wife (yes he’s married) just said that to scare and control me when I wanted to leave their abusive home. He’s even mad that I got a US Passport. When I needed his original Certificate of Naturalization, I got it from my mom who lives abroad. She had it because he sent it to her when he was sponsoring me for a green card. She has no status in the US and Never even came here. I also can’t get affidavits from relatives or family members that new him at the time of his birth because I don’t know my family from my dad’s side. I always lived with my mom. Even if I knew them I highly doubt that they would’ve helped me if my father told them not to.

Now I’m starting to get a little nervous. I’m nervous about the consequences that can come by applying for form N-600. If I apply for form N-600 without my Naturalized US citizen father’s birth certificate, is it gonna be a problem ? Can I get denied for that despite having every other required documents and a US Passport? If I get denied, what if USCIS contacts the Department of State and they cancelled/revoked my US Passport by believing that I’m not a US Citizen and that they made a mistake by giving me a US Passport? And after all of that I might never get a chance to naturalize under form n-400. I might even get deported who knows what the future holds.

My Question is: despite the fact that I have a valid US passport, and all supporting documents proving that I derived citizenship through my father, can USCIS denied my form N-600 because I’m didn’t submit my naturalized US Citizen parent’s birth certificate?

Thank you for taking your time to read this long paragraph of mine. Have a nice day!

 

[SusieQQQ]

Many, many if not most people who acquire citizenship under INA320 never do an N600 and never have a problem. Honestly, I wouldn’t worry about it if I were you. Losing a passport does not mean you can’t replace it.

 

[AlwaysWorried]

Thank you Ma’am. People got me worried and belittle the US Passport to the point that I was thinking about submitting a FOIA request to USCIS asking for my dad’s birth certificate. But I guess I’ll just stick with my US Passport. It’s already cool that I have something proving my Citizenship.

 

[Sm1smom]

You can’t truly expect USCIS will respond to your FOIA by releasing your Dad’s b/c to you, considering it is not your personal document.

 

[newacct]

I don't know why N-600 asks for the parent's birth certificate. I don't see how it is relevant in the cases where it is not being used as the parent's proof of citizenship. The relationship between you and your parent is proved by your birth certificate and your parents' marriage certificate. You could try filing N-600 without the parent's birth certificate, and putting in the cover letter that you are unable to obtain it, but there is a big risk of denial since it is an explicit form requirement. Since you are short on money right now, it might not be worth it to take this risk (with N-600 having a fee of $1,170) at the moment, especially since you don't need anything right now that a Certificate of Citizenship can provide that your US passport does not already provide.

 

[AlwaysWorried]

@Sm1smom

Ah. Yeah I forgot about that. Well I guess I don’t have any other options anymore. I’ll just act like I never even had the brilliant idea of applying for a certificate of Citizenship.

 

[AlwaysWorried]

@newacct

Yeah honestly I don’t understand why they ask for it either. I mean I can understand if they require it because the US Citizen parent was born on US soil, but otherwise they shouldn’t ask for it. It’s really weird. What about those with parents who never even got a birth certificate? Well I guess they application will get denied too. For something that is beyond their control. I won’t be applying for a Certificate of Citizenship. I’ll just keep my US passport. I’ll avoid wasting my saving for something that might get denied for a stupid reason like this. The only reason why I wanted the certificate is because people made it seem like a US Passport is worthless and that the certificate is the most solid proof of Citizenship for children of US Citizens. If years from now the required documents for the N-600 change and they don’t need my dad’s birth certificate anymore, I’ll apply for it. Thank you for your answer sir.

 

[SusieQQQ]

@newacct

Yeah honestly I don’t understand why they ask for it either. I mean I can understand if they require it because the US Citizen parent was born on US soil, but otherwise they shouldn’t ask for it. It’s really weird. What about those with parents who never even got a birth certificate? Well I guess they application will get denied too. For something that is beyond their control. I won’t be applying for a Certificate of Citizenship. I’ll just keep my US passport. I’ll avoid wasting my saving for something that might get denied for a stupid reason like this. The only reason why I wanted the certificate is because people made it seem like a US Passport is worthless and that the certificate is the most solid proof of Citizenship for children of US Citizens. If years from now the required documents for the N-600 change and they don’t need my dad’s birth certificate anymore, I’ll apply for it. Thank you for your answer sir.

Technically an n600 is superior to a passport. In practice it seems to make no difference. The only case I recall seeing reported where the passport was an issue was someone born in the US to parents on diplomatic status, which is a known exception to the birthright citizenship rule and a completely different case than yours.

 

[AlwaysWorried]

@SusieQQQ

If an N-600 is superior to a United States Passport, than why does the federal government says that a « US Passport has the same force and effect like a certificate of Citizenship/Naturalization during its period of validity » ?

It is article 22 U.S.C. 2705 that says it.

 

[SusieQQQ]

@SusieQQQ

If an N-600 is superior to a United States Passport, than why does the federal government says that a « US Passport has the same force and effect like a certificate of Citizenship/Naturalization during its period of validity » ?

It is article 22 U.S.C. 2705 that says it.

I said technically superior, you seem to forget I’m the one who told you to stop worrying about the n600 in the first place. Just make sure you always have a valid passport as per what you quoted. Obviously a certificate of citizenship never expires (and is issued by uscis not DoS).

 

[AlwaysWorried]

I said technically superior, you seem to forget I’m the one who told you to stop worrying about the n600 in the first place. Just make sure you always have a valid passport as per what you quoted. Obviously a certificate of citizenship never expires (and is issued by uscis not DoS)

Sorry I couldn’t answer. I was busy (college work etc...)

and I have another question. So without a certificate of Citizenship, if ICE takes me into custody or if I get in trouble with the law, can I get deported or get my citizenship revoked even though I have a US Passport identifying me as a citizen? Am i less safe with only a US Passport as proof of Citizenship? and I was thinking about applying for a passport card to have another proof of Citizenship, is it worth it?

 

[SusieQQQ]

Sorry I couldn’t answer. I was busy (college work etc...)

and I have another question. So without a certificate of Citizenship, if ICE takes me into custody or if I get in trouble with the law, can I get deported or get my citizenship revoked even though I have a US Passport identifying me as a citizen? Am i less safe with only a US Passport as proof of Citizenship? and I was thinking about applying for a passport card to have another proof of Citizenship, is it worth it?

@SusieQQQ

If an N-600 is superior to a United States Passport, than why does the federal government says that a « US Passport has the same force and effect like a certificate of Citizenship/Naturalization during its period of validity » ?

It is article 22 U.S.C. 2705 that says it.

 

[newacct]

Sorry I couldn’t answer. I was busy (college work etc...)

and I have another question. So without a certificate of Citizenship, if ICE takes me into custody or if I get in trouble with the law, can I get deported or get my citizenship revoked even though I have a US Passport identifying me as a citizen? Am i less safe with only a US Passport as proof of Citizenship? and I was thinking about applying for a passport card to have another proof of Citizenship, is it worth it?

ICE would have to really screw up to put you in removal proceedings if you have a real US passport (or even a copy of a passport that they can verify). In the highly unlikely case that you are placed in deportation proceedings, you can present your US passport or evidence that you derived US citizenship from your parent (e.g. the same type of evidence that you used to apply for a US passport), and you cannot be deported. In fact, even if you never obtained a US passport or Certificate of Citizenship (neither of which you are require to have as a US citizen), you can still beat deportation if you can establish that you derived citizenship. The problem is that ICE could detain you for a while before removal proceedings; there are stories of US citizens being mistakenly detained for months.

 

[AlwaysWorried]

ICE would have to really screw up to put you in removal proceedings if you have a real US passport (or even a copy of a passport that they can verify). In the highly unlikely case that you are placed in deportation proceedings, you can present your US passport or evidence that you derived US citizenship from your parent (e.g. the same type of evidence that you used to apply for a US passport), and you cannot be deported. In fact, even if you never obtained a US passport or Certificate of Citizenship (neither of which you are require to have as a US citizen), you can still beat deportation if you can establish that you derived citizenship. The problem is that ICE could detain you for a while before removal proceedings; there are stories of US citizens being mistakenly detained for months.

Good to know. I heard stories of US Citizens getting almost deported and detained despite showing evidence of Citizenship that ICE dismissed as fraudulent without proper verifications so I thought that could happen to me too.

 

[Fin]

An unexpired US passport is a conclusive proof of US citizenship as per 22 U.S.C. 2705. Even if you lose it, the state department can do a record search to find the record many years later. Many people apply for N600 for their own peace of mind to have an extra document. It is absolutely not necessary. If you cannot afford it, don’t worry about it. Most stories of people ending up in deportation either have mental health issues or language issues - especially prisoners who get released. It’s a very rare occurrence - the media reports just blow it out of proportion

 

[ippjjang1]

N-600 is not a superior.

The difference is that Department of State is much more lenient in issuing US Passport vs Department of Homeland Security issuing Certificate of Citizenship.

N-600 being superior is a wrong concept and as a matter of a fact, I was denied for Certificate of Citizenship for failing to provide a sole custody after my parent's divorce in my father's home country because they don't provide child custody in their divorce decree (The law back then prohibited mother from becoming a legal custodian in my biological parents' country) and I derived citizenship under my father with INA 321, which required either:

1. Both parents naturalize
2. Parent with legal custody naturalize

Department of State interprets the second part of the above for the "legal custody" to be ok if the parents have joint custody, or per say, sole custody of a naturalizing parent is NOT REQUIRED. And this is written in their rule book.
So Department of State reviewed my parents' divorce decree and the law where it prohibited my mother from becoming a legal custodian, and it allowed them to interpret as my father being the only person who can become my legal custodian.

On the other hand, Department of Homeland Security, or the old Department of Justice, preferred a naturalizing parent to be a SOLE CUSTODIAN, and it wanted to see it who the custodian was with a court order from the divorce decree. However, as I mentioned above my home country only allowed father to automatically become legal custodian upon parents' divorce, this was not necessary by the law and they denied it saying that court order is a requirement.

but it is NOT WRITTEN ANY WHERE IN THE RULE BOOK (which is a bit absurd).


However, they (USCIS) did respond saying I am a US citizen by law regardless of USCIS decision to deny my CoC since Department of State has issued me a US Passport, it also specified that my US Passport is my conclusive proof that I am a US citizen and under no circumstances Department of Homeland Security overrides Department of State's decision nor they can request Department of State to revoke the passport. (This was communicated to me in writing from Department of Homeland Security)

Three years after I was refused for Certificate of Citizenship, I was able to file a petition for my spouse using ONLY US PASSPORT and I never had any issue. This is exactly when I realized that Certificate of Citizenship has no superior power to the US Passport as the person who was refused the CoC was approved to file a petition for the spouse lol.

Certificate of Citizenship is just a piece of paper and in no way have any sort of power above US Passport. I don't know how many times I reiterated this message, but in no way a person who is issued a US Passport can be deported unless Department of State somehow revokes its decision.

In the success line of presidency, Secretary of State is the FIRST in line and the Secretary of Homeland Security is THE VERY LAST. If the Secretary of State acknowledged you as a US Citizen, the Secretary of Homeland Security's decision is irrelevant regardless of what he/she thinks you are entitled to. I was told of this by Department of State upon asking whose decision is a superior. When I contacted Department of Homeland Security, they asked me to contact Department of State for their decision.

So trust me.

So please DO NOT WORRY!

 

[ippjjang1]

By the way,

My close friend works for Department of Defense and passed a very strict security clearance.

Of one of those of course was whether he was a US Citizen ONLY or NOT. He on the same side, was denied of Certificate of Citizenship for the same reason as mine (Unable to provide evidence of legal custody).

At the end of the day, USCIS refusing to approve Certificate of Citizenship had absolute no effect since he was declared as a US Citizen by the Department of State and that WAS MORE THAN ENOUGH. Department of Defense, for one, doesn't care what USCIS says as long as an applicant has a US Passport.

He to this date isn't declared officially by the Department of Homeland Security as a US Citizen, but we can all careless about what they think of his current status.

Hence, having a NON-EXPIRING PIECE OF PAPER called Certificate of Citizenship is neither SUPERIOR or even NECESSARY. It is an OPTIONAL form you can have for $1170.00 which itself is an absolute ridiculous cost considering you can renew US Passport for about 70 years for that amount.

If you are afraid of losing a passport book and that being the ONLY primary proof of citizenship since you don't have a US Birth certificate or CBRA like those who were born US Citizens, I suggest you to just apply for US passport card (even though you may never need one) so that in any case you lose your US Passport book, that you have an immediate primary evidence of US citizenship document. It only costs $30.

Now, make sure you report to Social Security office with your US Passport to update your status there. The reason federal gov't or colleges asks for your Certificate of Citizenship number is because you will show up as a permanent resident in Social Security until you update your record and if so, they want to know when and how you became a US citizen. All this could be avoided if you UPDATE YOUR STATUS AS A US CITIZEN before applying for college or any federal job.

And yes, Social Security office will accept IF YOU ONLY HAVE US Passport and will NOT REQUIRE YOU TO PROVIDE the Certificate of Citizenship to update your status.

So save yourself the $1170.00 and the one year waiting time and live worry free.

All those people who were born here or born abroad with CBRA (Certificate of Birth Abroad, issued by Department of State) will NEVER IN THEIR LIFETIME NEED ANY ASSISTANCE from USCIS to prove anything from their Birth to Death.

You should be treated the same once you are proven as a US Citizen by the Department of State.

I myself and my best friend have been denied of Certificate of Citizenship and has yet faced any issue proving our US Citizenship using ONLY US PASSPORT. Even when applying for federal job or filing a petition which requires an approval from USCIS (LOL). I mean, what else do you really need the Certificate of Citizenship for? I was misinformed that I needed to submit a Certificate of Citizenship to file a petition for my wife and that was the only reason why I even applied for one. But it wasn't needed and USCIS has no authority to say that I am not a US citizen because I have a US Passport. Which in this case, makes me feel that US Passport almost is more superior (It isn't).

So you can ignore someone saying Certificate of Citizenship is somewhat superior as it surely isn't in ANY WAY.

Again, make sure you update your status with Social Security and possibly apply for Passport card for $30. That will SUFFICE all the things you might ever need with Certificate of Citizenship.

Up to this date, I don't recall anyone ever needing to show Certificate of Citizenship ONLY to any organization other than when applying for US Passport which you already received without one. School or Government WHICH WOULD BE THE ONLY OTHER ONES WHO MIGHT ASK FOR ONE wouldn't ask for one if you show up as US Citizen in the Social Security. If you research, US Passport is always mentioned as the first document (not saying it is more superior than CoC) of evidence of proof of US Citizenship on most requirement. Even above Birth Certificate (Since it lacks a photo).

Thanks!