Litigation update this week

[jayo2k]

wait, some winner put false signatures? How stupid can they be? OR they were cheating (duplicate)... but that's another case, but still dumb from thoses winners

Well probably raevsky is talking about process which Mister Ken White started to legalize cases of some winners which were disqualified for the false signature in the documents
lolz I'm angry today

 

[raevsky]

what was the moscow case?

http://www.bridgewest.com/news-archive/
In particular, references 25, 26
http://www.bridgewest.com/wp-content/themes/client/pdf/25.pdf
http://www.bridgewest.com/wp-content/themes/client/pdf/26.pdf

The idea was that consulate did not believe the signature on the paper lottery entry was authentic of the entrant (that was a requirement). The reason for that was the format of paper (the size of paper in Russia differs from the size in US)
If the entry was mailed from US on the Russian format paper sheet, or from Russia on the US format paper sheet, the visa was denied in Moscow on the reason "signature does not belong to the applicant on the initial entry".

wait, some winner put false signatures?

No, the signatures were authentic, according to plaintiffs

 

[jayo2k]

We'll never know, but sure the plaintiff won't say "I cheated"...
but that's a total different case, we are talking on a potential fraud here & you & I know that in usa, lying is taken seriously that's why when you reach the us by plane you get a form which ask you what do you want to do in usa even asking if you want to kill the president...

http://www.bridgewest.com/news-archive/
In particular, references 25, 26
http://www.bridgewest.com/wp-content/themes/client/pdf/25.pdf
http://www.bridgewest.com/wp-content/themes/client/pdf/26.pdf

The idea was that consulate did not believe the signature on the paper lottery entry was authentic of the entrant (that was a requirement). The reason for that was the format of paper (the size of paper in Russia differs from the size in US)
If the entry was mailed from US on the Russian format paper sheet, or from Russia on the US format paper sheet, the visa was denied in Moscow on the reason "signature does not belong to the applicant on the initial entry".
No, the signatures were authentic, according to plaintiffs

 

[raevsky]

Mister Ken White started to legalize cases of some winners which were disqualified for the false signature in the documents

One of the plaintiffs got his visa. That happened before the process started. Ivan Gusev got his visa on the following reason.
He was in the US on J-1 visa and left to Russia several days before the submission period started. He prepared his entry in the US before he left, and a friend of his put the entry into mail. On the date his entry was mailed he was already in Russia, his entry was mailed from the US on Russian size paper. That was the reason for visa denial.
When the consulate realized he was in the US several days before his entry was submitted, they reconsidered. They believed he had brought a sheet of paper from Russia, filled it in in the US, signed it, and then left.
Their normal way of thinking was if a person was in the US when his entry was submitted on Russian paper, the format difference was not a disqualifying factor.
Mr. White was involved and Ivan Gusev got his visa partly because Mr. White was involved; he negotiated with the consulate. As I said, this plaintiff was the only one who got a visa, and that happened before the matter got into court. it could even be that Ivan Gusev finally received "yes" from the consulate, but submitted his passport for a visa several days later. And the suit was filed in between, when the consulate already agreed to issue him a visa, but it was not issued yet.

So it would be correct to say Mr. White legalized exactly one case, and that was not related to the suit.

 

[Corewin]

One of the plaintiffs got his visa. That happened before the process started. Ivan Gusev got his visa on the following reason.
He was in the US on J-1 visa and left to Russia several days before the submission period started. He prepared his entry in the US before he left, and a friend of his put the entry into mail. On the date his entry was mailed he was already in Russia, his entry was mailed from the US on Russian size paper. That was the reason for visa denial.
When the consulate realized he was in the US several days before his entry was submitted, they reconsidered. They believed he had brought a sheet of paper from Russia, filled it in in the US, signed it, and then left.
Their normal way of thinking was if a person was in the US when his entry was submitted on Russian paper, the format difference was not a disqualifying factor.
Mr. White was involved and Ivan Gusev got his visa partly because Mr. White was involved; he negotiated with the consulate. As I said, this plaintiff was the only one who got a visa, and that happened before the matter got into court.

That's because there was no false signature in his docs.
Sure it's a different case but they both about DV programm rules, guys.

 

[raevsky]

The consulate did not have experts on handwriting. They also did not accept forensics from outside companies (even in the US) and refused to conduct forensics in the US by DOS.
So, they did not have any proof of false signatures, and they refused to consider any proof the signatures were in fact authentic. The court decided they did not have to.
So, it is very much possible that all signatures were in fact authentic, not only Ivan Gusev's.

 

[Arekee]

Mr Jako2, i just took my time to go thru all ur threads,nah, who do u want to deceive by your so called FACT or LOGIC.Guy we re not fools here. so stop all those, by trying to sit on the fence and be a judge.You indirect want the preliminary injunction and class certification to go on in court from stopping DOS announcing the results.My brother is not who starts a case in court and wins it.What matters is the END justifys all.Keep your so called FACTS AND LOGIC.Check your posts up and see how you contradict yourself my brother think twice b4 post .July 15.

 

[Corewin]

The consulate did not have experts on handwriting. They also did not accept forensics from outside companies (even in the US) and refused to conduct forensics in the US by DOS.
So, they did not have any proof of false signatures, and they refused to consider any proof the signatures were in fact authentic. The court decided they did not have to.
So, it is very much possible that all signatures were in fact authentic, not only Ivan Gusev's.

No, it's not possible in them case because they mailed it from Russia and they didn't have US paper format there.
He could use russian format in the USA for the convenience. Or he could fill it up in Russia and send to the USA to his friend , and then his friend could send it to KCC.
People are funny sometimes ))

 

[jayo2k]

man... ...
I even said yesterday that i am not even sure what i want, either fighting DOS or waiting for a slim chance... but you passed that to make your point look solid right...?
& Tell me, like I keep saying IF... do you know that word "IF"?
ok, so IF the injunction is accepted by a judge, what do you think will happen...
come on man be objectiv, do not think as a non selectees... IF... & again IF IF & IF the injuction is accepted by a judge, there won't be any july 15 until that case is over no matter what the outcome is...IFFFFFFF

Mr Jako2, i just took my time to go thru all ur threads,nah, who do u want to deceive by your so called FACT or LOGIC.Guy we re not fools here. so stop all those, by trying to sit on the fence and be a judge.You indirect want the preliminary injunction and class certification to go on in court from stopping DOS announcing the results.My brother is not who starts a case in court and wins it.What matters is the END justifys all.Keep your so called FACTS AND LOGIC.Check your posts up and see how you contradict yourself my brother think twice b4 post .July 15.

 

[raevsky]

Or he could fill it up in Russia and send to the USA to his friend , and then his friend could send it to KCC.

That was exactly the cause of troubles. All those who did just that were denied because it was filled in Russian format but sent from US. That looked unfair but was done according to the law.

 

[Corewin]

That was exactly the cause of troubles. All those who did just that were denied because it was filled in Russian format but sent from US. That looked unfair but was done according to the law.

How comes then I have read at other forum that "US friends" offering US mail adress for the russian people in case that Russian post office works badly? I guess it happenes when people send docs to USA and then somebody send it to KCC, or receiving mails from KCC and sending to Russia.

 

[jayo2k]

That's why from the past 5 years, not all of the 50 000 visas were issued since a small thing can get you denied

That was exactly the cause of troubles. All those who did just that were denied because it was filled in Russian format but sent from US. That looked unfair but was done according to the law.

 

[jayo2k]

What's the point sending the docs to an usa adress just to send them to KCC...? That look like a scam to me... If they can send to the friends mail from russia then they could send them to the KCC straight away without that friend mail...
You want something done, do it your damn self

How comes then I have read at other forum that "US friends" offering US mail adress for the russian people in case that Russian post office works badly? I guess it happenes when people send docs to USA and then somebody send it to KCC, or receiving mails from KCC and sending to Russia.

 

[Arekee]

Guys we re all brothers n sisters in the house.We should be our BROs n SISs keepers.Instead of allowing the so called lawsuit making us to insult,abuse and querels over nothing.I always said that i dont have anything against the ex-22k cos i have two sisters who re among the 22k.Lawsuit doesn't worth we querelling over nothingin cos we dont know what would happen at the end weather if it will pleases us or not.We dont know who ll win if possible.We re here to learn.Guys my advise to you all,dont go against the rules of this forum cos you might be mornitored and gets deleted or deactivated.The Admin is watching all our posts. even as i post.Jayo2k we re all ONE.

 

[Corewin]

That's why from the past 5 years, not all of the 50 000 visas were issued since a small thing can get you denied

Well it cased trouble for him just because he was caught in a flow with people which really lied and just didn't send docs to USA on russian paper, but just somebody filled it up in USA and signed it up.
lolz

 

[jayo2k]

I am not against the non selectees... not even against the redraw, my perfect scenario would be 78 to 85k new selectees on july 15 keeping the former 22k... I truly believe they deserve a chance.
I think you missunderstood me.
I try to be as objective as i can, remember at first i was saying that the lawsuit will be useless but i started to change my mind... now i think it is 50/50... Sure non selectees want to remain optimist so do not want to hear bad prediction & that's normal but I try to stay as objective as i can that's why i Keep saying "if"
now we are just 2 weeks before july 15... newt week we will know that the result should be the week after... the thing is that wa are underestimating that injuction, does that mean Mr white will win? No, that mean the draw will be put on hold pending the result of the lawsuit.
I am ready to bet that a laaaaaarge number of applicants doesn't even know about the redraw... only large participating countries may know it but i'm sure that a very large number are not aware... & most doesn't have an email adresss since they applied from a internet cafe & the email was optional...

Guys we re all brothers n sisters in the house.We should be our BROs n SISs keepers.Instead of allowing the so called lawsuit making us to insult,abuse and querels over nothing.I always said that i dont have anything against the ex-22k cos i have two sisters who re among the 22k.Lawsuit doesn't worth we querelling over nothingin cos we dont know what would happen at the end weather if it will pleases us or not.We dont know who ll win if possible.We re here to learn.Guys my advise to you all,dont go against the rules of this forum cos you might be mornitored and gets deleted or deactivated.The Admin is watching all our posts. even as i post.Jayo2k we re all ONE.

 

[Corewin]

What's the point sending the docs to an usa adress just to send them to KCC...?

Ask those people, I'm also wonder, but there are nothing illegal in that.

 

[jayo2k]

Well it cased trouble for him just because he was caught in a flow with people which really lied and just didn't send docs to USA on russian paper, but just somebody filled it up in USA and signed it up.
lolz

I think he is even baned from visiting the USA since it is concidered as "lying in an official paper"... Feel sorry for him realy

 

[raevsky]

How comes then I have read at other forum that "US friends" offering US mail adress for the russian people in case that Russian post office works badly?

having a US return address was OK. The problem was if the original envelope was sent from US on Russia size paper. If it was sent from Russia with a US return mailing address, it was OK.

I guess it happenes when people send docs to USA and then somebody send it to KCC, or receiving mails from KCC and sending to Russia.

It created problems for 3 years only - DV-2000, DV-2001 and DV-2002. Then people stopped doing that. And starting DV-2005 there was no signature any more.

What's the point sending the docs to an usa adress just to send them to KCC...? That look like a scam to me... If they can send to the friends mail from russia then they could send them to the KCC straight away without that friend mail...

No. Russia is a country with a terrible mail system. Huge percentage of mail is lost in the mail. You could send a mail to a friend in the US, and if he does not receive it, send it again. But you cannot send it twice to KCC - that is a duplicate entry.

Well it cased trouble for him just because he was caught in a flow with people which really lied and just didn't send docs to USA on russian paper, but just somebody filled it up in USA and signed it up.

No. There was no reason to believe that someone actually lied. The only reason was the paper format.
Would a person in the US be absolutely crazy to get Russian size paper and forge a signature on it? Why not to do it on US size paper if you want to forge?

However, sending US format paper from US was OK, but sending Russian size paper from US meant a denial.

 

[raevsky]

think he is even baned from visiting the USA since it is concidered as "lying in an official paper"... Feel sorry for him realy

Nobody was banned. Just the entries were disqualified from this particular DV lottery program.