Let's Do Some Work...see In

Guys ..guys

we are admitting to the facts that there are too many applicants from India but at the same time we cannot demand for increase the visas. There are other solution to the problem, just tilt the pretext and tell them to use unused visas of other countries. The concept of DV is WRONG in EB visas, it makes sence in GC lottery or other schemes but irrelevant in EB cause it is for the ppl who has the skills. What has Diversity to do with skills??

Again, we are not making lame excuses like said by unitednations- "pay taxes and you should get relief, paying into social security, need to get wife working, career stagnation, etc"

nyc8300, which is that "similar bill like SKIL" ?? I am all for going on streets for this matter.

Added point 3 below..

Some points we should not forget while writing..

1) Dont mention abut H1B at all in the whole letter.

2) Point out the unused numbers for other countries.

3) Dependents not to be counted in the green cards cap.
 
as i had pointed my problems........they are pretty lame when you mention that to authorities....

so someone please mention some good reasons why US authorities should pay attention to our cause??
 
House Bill for Skilled Immigrants

The House (R Shadegg-House Republican) has introduced its own version of the SKIL Bill for skilled immigrants. I have seen the bill in the forum. It is more favorable than the SKIL bill itself.
For once the house and senate agree on how to treat the skilled workers.
Also the appropriation bill has to be passed before year end and there are discussions about getting this bill tagged to the appropriation bill.
IF WE DON'T MOVE NOW, I don't know of any next urgency to do anything on immigration.
 
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Let's conclude on action rather than analysis

United Nations/Others,

Your analysis is well appreciated. We should however not debate the merits of why US should do what it is doing.
Are we trying to just discuss or initiate some action or are we can just going to analyze the whole 'damn system'.

At some point, we need to either DO SOMETHING or just SHUT UP!
 
WE Ask for SKIL Bill or similar

unitednations,

The SKIL Bill has all the components that we want. The House version of the bill is on the same lines.
All we are asking for is why the bill is being mixed with the illegals.
We need ACTION NOW on this by the Congress.

Mr. Bush had started his presidency by promising to clean up the backlog problems. I am sure he wants to clean the mess up. We are just not visible to be up on his priority list.

The problem is we are debating this too much and there is not enough action on the streets. The only thing that scares politicians is TV and we need to put the argument before them not just through faxes etc but by going to TV channels to highlight the inaction.

If you have noticed the TV channels/press will gladly cover 'hot' topics like immigration. We are getting out of the 'hot' topics category right now; the effort to bring this up later will have to be herculean if nothing is done now.
 
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Immigration and outsourcing

Guys,

I believe there is a correlation between immigration and outsourcing. If they dont allow skilled people to stay here, they have to send jobs to outside US.

This is what I heard from many executives.
 
while that is true.....its not the whole story........outsourcing the the final reality.....in the future everything that can be outsourced will be outsourced unless US government intervenes........

i expect 70-80% of IT jobs to be outsourced.......
 
unitednations,

You can justify expedited GC processing the same way that lawmakers justified AC21: it's "American Competitiveness". A dispirited, hollow shell of an employee (to quote Dilbert) waiting forever for a green card and working barely enough to not get fired, is contributing less to the American economy than the one who's free to go anywhere where market forces let him. The free-range worker may choose to put lots of extra hours because he likes the new job (or the money), he may even start a company on his own and hire new people and so on.

Such freedom of labor is one of the core principles on which this country functions. We may argue whether it's good or bad, but obviously we are attracted to that spirit since we're here.

And yes, lawmakers need to balance that freedom for immigrants against the need to protect -- to some extent at least -- the domestic work force. The question than becomes whether the number of employment GC visas is high enough that alloting more would put US workers (and immigrants who previously received their Green Cards :) in danger. If it's not, then it should be increased.
 
techy2468 said:
while that is true.....its not the whole story........outsourcing the the final reality.....in the future everything that can be outsourced will be outsourced unless US government intervenes........

i expect 70-80% of IT jobs to be outsourced.......
Click to expand...
You can not avoid globalization, but whether outsource keeps continue at the current speed is doubtful. They outsource simply because off shore has cheaper labor, but gap in human cost is getting smaller between the US and major outsourced nations especially India. I'm not an Indian, but I heard their salary increased double last few years. If their human cost keeps going high, the US companies will lose interest to outsource or they'll find alternatives.
 
GotPR....right now in india.....a avg programmers(3-4 years experience, an ordinary engineering or bachelors in science) just gets paid around $13k.......compare that with $70k in usa...

in the high end(architects etc) it is around $34k.....compare that with $120K in usa...

another factor is that quality is much better because everything gets documented and goes through a quality control...

those guys are better because they have specialised teams to handle projects....with the right expertise...

but the biggest factor......atleast 40-50% cost savings...

and dont worry about the salary increasing.....for new comers the salary will always hand around $10k .....and as outsourced work increases (almost 30-40% every years).....people automatically get promotion since they need seniors.....hence the quick pay raise(20-30% every year)...

and now even china is doing great in IT outsourced work....no shortage of people to do work......india itself produced atleast 200K engineers every year....
 
Can't believe this!

Why are we even discussing the merits/demerits of immigration of skilled labor?

In a world where congress is still debating how to treat Alqeeda in prisons we have an AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE HOUSE and SENATE FOR ONCE on SKILLED IMMIGRANTS.

PLS SEE THE DETAILS ON THE HOUSE and SENATE BILL in another THREAD BY garg.

WHY DON'T WE TAKE THIS AS A BASELINE AND THINK OF PUSHING THE AGENDA FORWARD.
 
Skil Bill

Hey guys..i really dont see anything happening..regarding the SKIL bill..I find only the old stuff online..dated back to May /june..I am in a bad state because my lawyer screwed up my H1B ..so SKIL bill is my only hope...I guess the illegal stuff is under consideration rite now n i dunno for how long?
How many of u think that the SKIL bill has a good chance..Also what matters is the progress..so plz keep everyone poseted if u see any news article..!!
 
skip it if you want 'todo' list; nothin' new here

unitednations said:
I don't see any valid reasons to tell you the truth.
..There might still be some retrogression but not much.
Click to expand...
thanks for your honest response. i don't want to come out as an expert on this topic, as frankly, i am not. and there's nothing new i'm going to say, but based on just numbers -- 300,000, until recently, stuck in bec/dol, 1.4 M stuck with the uscis, VBs, arbitrariness in the processing, American IT/xyz lobbying, global competitiveness etc. tell me that there's something basic missing in the US immigration system and needs to be fixed to cater to current realities. whatever be the reason. perm, ac21, pp are good positive steps; more needs to be done. fixing the 245i mess by raising the quota might be a good start.

all throughout, economic and market conditions have driven migration and i think that will continue. if indians have devised a way for h1bs to come here, so be it. they took the opportunity for whatever reasons, and indians should NOT be apologetic or defensive about it as long as it's legal. now their and others' next challenge is to ask for correlated-visa numbers for eb immigration and there's nothing wrong in it as long as it's legal.

if the US society/govt decides not to increase the numbers or have a CIR, in a few years, economic, market, and social conditions will make the potential immigrants to move to other destinations, be it australia, uk or bangalore. market conditions will find a mensa, harvard math major in bangalore as well.

socio-political policies need not by 'airtight' or perfect for argument sake to implement, as there're so many other social variables that need to be looked into. look into history you'll find many examples.
 
Very well said

Very well said, UnitedNations. I agree with you 100%.

Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer, and this ain't legal advice, its just my opinion.
-----------------------------------------
PD: Jan 2000
LC: Mar 2000
I-140 EB3: Jun 2000
I-140 EB2: Oct 2000
I-485: Jul 2000
I-485 AD: May 2002

unitednations said:
Have you ever been to NYC?

Stand in Queens along the East River or New Jersey along the Hudson River. Look into Manhattan. You will see a big drop off in skyscrapers from mid town to downtown.

That part of NYC used to be a textile hub. NYC was a blue collar place one point in time. All the business that was done there was outsourced to Mexico, Pakistan, China, Indonesia a long time ago.

Nike got in trouble for using sweatshops to make $180 shoes and having their agents employer underaged kids in Indonesia.

When free trade came about between Canada, USA and Mexico; Chrysler sent their manufacturing jobs to Mexico.

Why am I saying the above. It had nothing to do with employers not being able to find people who couldn't sew t-shirts, make car seats, etc. It had to do with "shareholder value". Maximize revenue and reduce cost at all costs. If you are patriotic then you better meet your quarterly earnings estimates and if you don't then we will get someone else who will and if they can meet it by getting cheaper costs then they will.

If you are part of the decision making process in reducing costs; the arguments go like this: We have to pay 20% on top of an employee salary due to employer taxes, health care. We have to hire more employees then necessary to cover for sick leave and vacations. We have constant turnover and have to train employees over and over again and lose productive time.
How can we justify to our employees, shareholders, customers that we are going to outsource? Do we tell the truth or do we spin it that we can't find the right skilled workers?

If USA opened the floodgates do you think they would bring the outsourced jobs back to USA and increase their costs by 50%? Also, USA is not the only one who is outsourcing to cheaper countries.
Click to expand...
 
the history of manhattan's manufacturing and textiles decline started long before outsourcing even came into the picture. it has to do with jobs and people moving out of the city into the hinterland of america..america was expanding too. more people settled in the plains and into the mississippi delta, where cotton was grown...virginia and carolina had a lot of textile industry growth.
whereas manhattan was becoming a big trade and financial hub of the world, it was getting sophisticated and morphing into a service economy , moving from a manufacturing economy.

the same thing happened all over the world, this example is nothing peculiar to NY. it happened in london, mumbai...etc at different times in history.

while i do not know if there is a correlation between immigration and outsourcing, i can certainly say that there is correlation between immigration and innovation. the best minds come here to innovate, if america needs to attract and retain top talent ( i am not talking about IT programmers here) then a flexible immigration policy is certain in need.
 
unitednations said:
All good points.

However, the voice for change is not from candidates for greencard. It has to come from the public and american business.

Very valid points were raised by business to do special quota for nurses. The best and brightest from the world all have accomodation here. The movie stars (Russell Crowe), athletes (baseball players from Latin America), important scientists, professors, etc. The system is designed to attract them as there is many avenues for them to come here.

The rest of employment base system is purely employer base for the most part. If US employers want people to get greencards faster or increase quota then it will happen. As long as they can get people here on temporary visas and work towards greencard then there is no hurry and will be no push.

There was doomsday scenarios for students because of visa delays, and security clearences to get people to USA. There was a little drop off but once they worked the kinks out of the system the student level, number of visitors returned to its normal levels.

USA knows that it can attract people from anywhere in the world, especially third world countries. Once demand drops off and it is pointed to the system then it can change. However, I don't foresee demand ever dropping off.
Click to expand...

we all know and understand that only stakeholders i.e. employers/citizens would help bring legislative changes in any democracy. this is well known and well understood. there's nothing new in that, and you're stating the obvious. what these guys were discussing in this thread titled - "Let's Do Some Work...see In" was to go beyond that. the focus of this thread was the candidates, what they could do, how they can contribute to influence legislative agendas etc.

in a limited way, candidates did have some impact in the BEC mess. candidates contacted secretary chao/congress representatives to bring to their notice the bec mess; these candidates did get response from them and we have a better system now. maybe dol/bec could have done on their own, but i think candidates' involvement, press coverages, did have some impact. agreed, this did not require legislative initiatives, but people in power did listen to the candidates and acted upon.

also, there are some good media and legislative buzz about retrogression and skilled immigration in general because of the lobbying efforts by many immigrants, mainly indians, some chinese and some brits among others. i'm sure you would agree that lobbying efforts do bring in legislative initiatives in this country in many "interesting" ways. examples are plenty.

yeah, you're right about the US that they can attract any people from anywhere in the world esp. third world country, but the focus of this thread was or is again, on 'candidates' and not the USA.
 
Senators and House Reps

Apart from sending letters to Newspapers we can also send them to our senators and House Reps.

Find ur senators and house Reps here..

For the house of representatives:

1. Go to www.house.gov

2. Enter your zipcode(5 digit plus 4) and look for the congressman representing your district.

For the Senate:

1. Go to www.senate.gov

2. Enter your state. You will see the names, phone numbers and their address(es) in Washington DC for both the senators representing your state.

-Pavan Arora
 
Not enough!

pa_arora,

Although these are good steps they are terribly insufficient. IV has been doing a lot of work on this already.
Do you think senators will look at this rather than illegal immigrants, elections and other more pressing demands?

Truth is we do not have a presence. IV has done lot of print ads this year and we have a consensus in the house on SKIL Bill.
The only thing we lack is any presence and we need to create that presence through TV. We still have time before the appropriation bill at the end of the year to stage a rally and not loose the momentum on this.
Next year, there is no election and no immigration issue.
 
nyc8300 said:
pa_arora,

Although these are good steps they are terribly insufficient. IV has been doing a lot of work on this already.
Do you think senators will look at this rather than illegal immigrants, elections and other more pressing demands?

Truth is we do not have a presence. IV has done lot of print ads this year and we have a consensus in the house on SKIL Bill.
The only thing we lack is any presence and we need to create that presence through TV. We still have time before the appropriation bill at the end of the year to stage a rally and not loose the momentum on this.
Next year, there is no election and no immigration issue.
Click to expand...

I know IV is doing this, but I think this needs to be done at individual level.

Senators look at the letters we send them. I can make this statement as couple of my friends got called by senators when they wrote them about the name check/ FBI thingy. So they atleast look at them.

Am starting a new thread for the rally lets see how many ppl are IN for this.
 
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