LABOR Substitution SCANDAL and Staffing companies!

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nyc8300

Registered Users (C)
POSTED In another thread
eBhola
Registered User Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 354

Labor substitution makes the wait in the line much more longer, as visa number vanish to fullfill the guys who cut in with better PD.

Here is a thing which happened to one of my buddy.. Needed a GC so got in touch with one company. They said we just have a labor for Ur experience .. but U need to tranfer Ur H1b to us and we will do the sub labor for U .. and U need to go thru our attoney.. Great my friend felt he went for it..

He got the sub labor and got his 140 approved .. just after 180 days they said that he need to go to another company .. there sister concern... they moved him company B .. continued with his GC process using AC-21.
Meanwhile the company got another guy to substitute for his labor.

Later he learnt that ... the labor which he had got was also in the simmilar way .. they had moved one guy to company B to pave a way for his labor.

So over here .. atleast 3 guys got a benefit of one labor.
 
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This is fraud

This is just fraud. not more not less than that. And it is not going to work for ALL three of them.
 
nyc8300 said:
POSTED In another thread
eBhola
Registered User Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 354

Quote:
Originally Posted by unitednations
Labor substitution doesn't change the number of people going for the greencard but rather the order of people. If you think labor substitution is a big problem then you need to prove it. Department of labor hasn't been able to scientifically prove it and that is why it hasn't gone away yet.



Labor substitution makes the wait in the line much more longer, as visa number vanish to fullfill the guys who cut in with better PD.

Here is a thing which happened to one of my buddy.. Needed a GC so got in touch with one company. They said we just have a labor for Ur experience .. but U need to tranfer Ur H1b to us and we will do the sub labor for U .. and U need to go thru our attoney.. Great my friend felt he went for it..

He got the sub labor and got his 140 approved .. just after 180 days they said that he need to go to another company .. there sister concern... they moved him company B .. continued with his GC process using AC-21.
Meanwhile the company got another guy to substitute for his labor.

Later he learnt that ... the labor which he had got was also in the simmilar way .. they had moved one guy to company B to pave a way for his labor.

So over here .. atleast 3 guys got a benefit of one labor.
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Has any of them got the green card yet ?
 
guys, we got much biger fish to fry, atleast the guy who are using this or legal, I am sure they are'nt that many in numbers who are getting GCs thru sub labour,

I know a friend of mine who got his GC about two before using sub labor, he is happy man now, I feel bad sometime that he cut thru the line.

on the other hand, if I had a chance probably I would have done the same.

so relax guys, labour subst, is not our biggest concernt 245i, currrent political and economical situiation are the main factors, we need to focus our effort on these areas

contacting Lou is not going to help :(
 
Corrected the comment! Trying to clean up the misuse. If that means that USCIS takes for ever to process each application and cancel GC's that were granted in the past, so be it.
unitednations said:
[/COLOR]


You are copying/pasting the wrong way. Item in blue was not my quote.

Don't know what you are trying to do.
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asnssf said:
This is just fraud. not more not less than that. And it is not going to work for ALL three of them.
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Well ... why do you think it will not work for all three of them ...... all are within the rules set by USCIS ...

One can leave the company after 180 days of filing 485 .. submit AC21 and go join any company with similar job description ... U are safe.

Meanwhile since U left the company .. the employer withdraws Ur GC application and gets another guy for the future employement on the same labor.

The only thing for employee is that, they must ensure that there is only one guy attached to labor at at given time ( at 140 / 485 stage)
Hmm they cybersoft guy broke this cardinal rule -- and applied for mutiple 140 on the same labor.

Typically the labor substitution companies and attorney charge around 25K.. plus they want all the billing to come to them ... It such a lucrative market that most of the consulting companies are doing this.... and substitution is quite wide spread and is chief cause of retrogression for India.

What can be done? Nothing much .. unless the USCIS changes .. which is unlikely... as most who are lobbing for immigration reforms are supportive of substitution.
 
if you know these things are happening is there a recourse through law to force USCIS not to allow this. Is this the intent of USCIS law on labor substitution ?
 
AGC4ME said:
if you know these things are happening is there a recourse through law to force USCIS not to allow this. Is this the intent of USCIS law on labor substitution ?
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Send emails to USCIS to look at this.
Single out staffing companies that are asking for money to file for your GC. It is illegal for companies to charge anything from employees towards GC process as per USCIS. We can create a list of staffing companies that have asked for money to process GC and out it out as one of the threads. You don't have to disclose your identity but may have to come up with some proof later that you were asked to pay up
 
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nyc8300 said:
Send emails to USCIS to look at this.
Single out staffing companies that are asking for money to file for your GC. It is illegal for companies to charge anything from employees towards GC process as per USCIS. We can create a list of staffing companies that have asked for money to process GC and out it out as one of the threads. You don't have to disclose your identity but may have to come up with some proof later that you were asked to pay up
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U look new out here ... this is not something that is happening now ... the process is old and USCIS tried to remove the labor substitution many times ... but they failed...
 
The USCIS rule on employers not charging money is recent. From what i have heard USCIS has been cracking down on 'staffing companies' and lots of approved H-1 guys are not being granted visas. Also lots of the agencies are under investigation.

If we create a list of 'staffing agencies' we will make a huge deterrant for agencies to screw around with the rules and employees.

You didn't use a subs labor, did you?

garam.chadi said:
U look new out here ... this is not something that is happening now ... the process is old and USCIS tried to remove the labor substitution many times ... but they failed...
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Check this thread
http://www.immigrationportal.com/showthread.php?t=227574

It seems only after AC-21, labor can not be substituted.

The reason for Retrogression, in my opinion, is huge number of applications for eb2 and eb3 from people born in India. It is simple demand/supply scenario. People from India take about 40% of total H1, but about 7% of Employment based visa numbers (green cards) are available to India until RoW eb3 is not current. Do the math.
 
desi3933 said:
Check this thread
http://www.immigrationportal.com/showthread.php?t=227574

It seems only after AC-21, labor can not be substituted.

The reason for Retrogression, in my opinion, is huge number of applications for eb2 and eb3 from people born in India. It is simple demand/supply scenario. People from India take about 40% of total H1, but about 7% of Employment based visa numbers (green cards) are available to India until RoW eb3 is not current. Do the math.
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what do u mean by only after AC-21 labor can not be substituted. Everyday I see labor available ads right here.
 
desi3933 said:
What I meant is, it seems when a person has exercised his/her AC-21 option, that person's LC can not be substituted for another person. In other words, one GC per LC.
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According to my understanding of this substitution process --- what you say is not correct ... Let me explain you the process with an example.. experts comments are welcome to improve the correct understanding of this process.



* Emp A quits Comp JJ after 180 days of 485.

* Emp A joins Comp ZZ.

Comp JJ withdraws Emp A applications .. writes the letter to USCIS Emp A is no more interested for future employement.
Terms and condition of the labor does not hold true anymore for Emp A.

USCIS .. sends Intent to Deny (NOID) to Emp A.

* Comp JJ meanwhile finds another guy Emp B and hires him for future with the labor...

At this stage GC for Emp B is safe .. Emp A is in trouble..
He has technically refused future employment with Comp JJ.

* Thanks to AC21 --- Emp A can protect himself...
If he can prove that he has joined a simmilar job after 180 days of 485 ..
He might be safe. If USCIS rejects his AC21 application --- Emp A is doomed.

So U see the guy who gets the sub labor is more safe than original guy.
Emp A has to defend himself to continue his GC.


+ If Comp JJ does NOT withdraw the GC application for Emp A after he quits .. then USCIS assumes that Emp A is willing for future employment.

+ If Comp JJ does NOT withdraw the GC application for Emp A and then use the same labor of Emp B.. Emp B is in trouble... he might not get his GC.


EB immigration much inclined towards the employers ... they get whatever they want ... Well as someone said -- they feed us too ......
 
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ban labor substitution

Unless labor substitutions are banned such abuses cannot be stopped. The price is paid by the people who have waited in line of years and years.

9th year in the US and no sign of GC yet... :( :mad:
 
Yes but ...

unitednations said:
I'll ask the question again;

The latest statistics on approvals from India were for the period ended September 2005.

Close to 50,000 people from India got the greencard.

How many people got it in labor substitution?

20,000, 30,000, 40,000, 2,000, 300, 100, etc.

In the case of revoking, re-applying, how many people got it this way?

There is over 110,000 retrogressed EB cases and a couple of hundred thousand more in backlog and over 100,000 filed in perm.

You guys are focusing on a small number of people trying to play the system either by labor substitution or two people trying to get the greencard on the same labor. I'm not a proponent of labor substitution. However, you guys have misguided conception of how this is playing with the priority date.
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UN,

You are right in that Labor Sub may not be a huge problem right now but when the backlogged labors get approved this year for applicants that have already utilized PERM or quit over the years etc etc, the labor selling companies will have a field day selling these newly apporved labors to people. So in effect there will be twice as much backlog because backlogged labors will be used by newer applicants while PERM will add older applicants who either abandoned their regular labors or left their companies on top of all this. In the end Labor Sub will have an effect. However, in the big picture, labor sub is just a single dimension of this multidimensional problem. It will have an adverse effect but it is a small part of the major problems that plague this system.

regards,

saras
 
unitednations said:
There is over 110,000 retrogressed EB cases and a couple of hundred thousand more in backlog and over 100,000 filed in perm.
You guys are focusing on a small number of people trying to play the system either by labor substitution or two people trying to get the greencard on the same labor. I'm not a proponent of labor substitution. However, you guys have misguided conception of how this is playing with the priority date.
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We do not have the numbers as how many are doing labor substitution... but I would say they are quite a bit in number... I know atleast 6 guys who have done it ... and some have got GC too.. [All the guys were just traped and had no other way to go other than the labor substitution. ] The labor are substituted in BEC too ... even before they are approved. The employer who offer labor substitution is also asking the employee to file for labor under PERM .. looks like future investment for them.

Guys who are waiting in BEC for long time have right to enter the line ahead .. as they have already waited there turn...

I feel whatever small the number be .. atleast that many guys who are standing in line for 3-4 years will get 485 approved... ( instead of waiting for another 2 years more).

I know it is diffcult to eliminate labor substitution --- but now if that is eliminated ... its the only way to make the cutoff date move forward .. aleast a little bit.
 
It's not just the "staffing agencies" using labor substitution that we have to worry about; it's the fact that labor certifications are valid indefinitely.

There are many companies holding approved labor certifications for whom the employee resigned or was laid off years ago. Many such companies have forgotten about them or have no intention of using them for another employee. But the fact that those labor certifications still remain "alive" causes the USCIS to count them when deciding the priority date, because theoretically any of them could file I-140/I-485 tomorrow.

Even if they don't eliminate labor substitution, DOL should make labor certs expire after a reasonable time frame (say 4-6 months after approval, not the ridiculously short 45 days they were proposing). That would eliminate those old ones held by companies that forgot about them, and make fraudulent substitution much less profitable and doable.
 
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I liked the points laid out by unitedNations ...

This system of immigration is seems not to work... there are too many fixes to be done ..

I think the permant fix is do a huge overhaul to this immigration system --- something how cannadians do might help every level of immigrants...

Easier said than done .. atleast for us we have to live with the system we have.

After the Nov election the admistration might visit the Immigration issue but only for illegals ... No one seeems to care for EB immigration ... not even corporate America ...

What if -- all EAD guys stop work for a day to raise the issue -- will it be heard?
 
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