LABOR Substitution SCANDAL and Staffing companies!

Under perm, you need to do all the recruitment within 180 days of filing the labor. So, the employer has tested the available US-labor pool in the past six months and has not found a suitable candidate and hence, they are filing labor on behalf of the alien. This (I think) is the rationale behind pd as the determinant of your order in the GC queue. Using this logic would imply that pd is the date of receipt of labor even in case of labor sub.

What I do not understand, however, is how the lc is made valid indefinitely? There has to be reasonable time-frame (6 months-1year) within which GC should be approved after filing the labor cert. This is perhaps happening today with perm for EB1 & 2 row. But for oversubscribed countries, where the waiting period stretches to 3-4 years, the above rationale behind using the pd as the order determinant in the GC queue can not be defended.
neocor said:
There is a very simple solution for Labor Substitution that will not offend the companies and lawyers as they will still be able to substitute the Labor.

Solution is that whoever get the benefit of Substituted Labor, his priority date will be the date it was substituted (Or the day I-140 was filed for that subsituted Labor).

Why is that so difficult for the USCIS to implement that I am not able to understand. I am sure that USCIS will win this kind of rule.

Any company or lawyer fighting against this does not have much of a case left now. USCIS is not stopping them from subsituting that Labor, so they cannot argue that the Labor went waste after the employee left.
Infact any company that is fighting against it will be prooven to be a rouge company as the intention now becomes very clear, that they are planning to sell it.

I have been voicing the LS concern for the last two year and now when I see this thread I read every post, and not a single poster seem to suggest this.

Isnt this a neat and best solution. I keep hearing that USCIS has been trying to get away with LS for and long time and eveytime it loses against the companies and laywers because of various reasons.
Has the USCIS ever tried to amend it this way. This absolutely makes sense.

neo
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neocor said:
There is a very simple solution for Labor Substitution that will not offend the companies and lawyers as they will still be able to substitute the Labor.

Solution is that whoever get the benefit of Substituted Labor, his priority date will be the date it was substituted (Or the day I-140 was filed for that subsituted Labor).

Why is that so difficult for the USCIS to implement that I am not able to understand. I am sure that USCIS will win this kind of rule.

Any company or lawyer fighting against this does not have much of a case left now. USCIS is not stopping them from subsituting that Labor, so they cannot argue that the Labor went waste after the employee left.
Infact any company that is fighting against it will be prooven to be a rouge company as the intention now becomes very clear, that they are planning to sell it.

I have been voicing the LS concern for the last two year and now when I see this thread I read every post, and not a single poster seem to suggest this.

Isnt this a neat and best solution. I keep hearing that USCIS has been trying to get away with LS for and long time and eveytime it loses against the companies and laywers because of various reasons.
Has the USCIS ever tried to amend it this way. This absolutely makes sense.

neo
Click to expand...

If they implement what you said, will be great but , I dont think they will do that as long as L/C substitution does not cause flooding.

EB is employer centric and remember all EB laws here are very employer centric. The max, DOL will do is to make sure if someone got benched to get back wages if they get complaints that they are underpayed or back waged.
 
Great Solution!

First REAL SOLUTION on this website.
I was getting tired of all the immigration gurus/analyzers/'no solution' guys.
Makes me feel we have some good brains on this website but the voice is getting drowned by all the nonsense by the gurus and their chelas.



neocor said:
There is a very simple solution for Labor Substitution that will not offend the companies and lawyers as they will still be able to substitute the Labor.

Solution is that whoever get the benefit of Substituted Labor, his priority date will be the date it was substituted (Or the day I-140 was filed for that subsituted Labor).

Why is that so difficult for the USCIS to implement that I am not able to understand. I am sure that USCIS will win this kind of rule.

Any company or lawyer fighting against this does not have much of a case left now. USCIS is not stopping them from subsituting that Labor, so they cannot argue that the Labor went waste after the employee left.
Infact any company that is fighting against it will be prooven to be a rouge company as the intention now becomes very clear, that they are planning to sell it.

I have been voicing the LS concern for the last two year and now when I see this thread I read every post, and not a single poster seem to suggest this.

Isnt this a neat and best solution. I keep hearing that USCIS has been trying to get away with LS for and long time and eveytime it loses against the companies and laywers because of various reasons.
Has the USCIS ever tried to amend it this way. This absolutely makes sense.

neo
Click to expand...
 
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GreenCardVirus said:
That Labor Substitution is a minor problem is false propoganda. All the beneficiaries: Lawyers, CA's, Employers and Employees who benifited from LS want this. Ofcourse they would tell you it is not much of a problem. These people only stand to loose if they told you otherwise.
Click to expand...

I definately agree, that LS being a minor problem is a false propaganda.
The 245i are being made too much off.

At least from India EB3 point of view LS is definately a mojor problem because of these factors.

- Labor Subsitution is more prevalent amoung Indians working in the Tech (software) field. And companies (Staffing) that do it are 90% operated by Indians.
- It was known that Indians would be a minority in the 245i queue. Now due to this misconception everyone somehow has started to believe that the 245i queue has Indians in Majority.

After this retrogression saga in the last two years there has been a concerted attemt to project 245i as the main reason for India EB3 to retrogress badly.
By getting this view its easier for staffing companies and lawyers to sell Labors. And that in effect is keeping the PD in 2001. Its now a cyclic process, where companies and layers keep advocating employees to substitute Labor because of retrogression and, becasue of LS the dates will keep retrogressing.

Now I am sure someone will ask the smart question "why then are the dates for India EB3 stuck in April 2001 (the last month for 245i Filers)". The answer to that is companies are substituting Labors from that month and before, giving the 245i as a reason. So the USCIS sees 485 applications popping up every month from Apr 2001 and before and hence keeps the dates there. Even they (USCIS) seem to think that the India EB3 queue is affected by the 245i.

The LS is definately a major problem, its not a minor one. Even if USCIS is cracking down on fraud Labor Subsitutions, that process it itself taking a lot of time. And In the meantime that 485 (based on the fraud subsituted Labor) gets counted to the Visa number demand. So even if they classify is as fraud, the Visa Number gets locked and hence may potentially get wasted. With so few Visa's available these things are really killing the whole process.

neo
 
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whats the disadvantage if we bring this misuse to the attention of USCIS/DOS/DOL etc...

should we all be scared that it will open a can of worms??....which will lead to closing down of most staffing companies....which means all of us will lose our jobs.....and they may also suspend/complicate this GC process for IT guys because of all this fraud????

(BTW i am an IT guy and i work for a indian staffing company)
 
neocor said:
I definately agree, that LS being a minor problem is a false propaganda.
The 245i are being made too much off.



- It was known that Indians would be a minority in the 245i queue. Now due to this misconception everyone somehow has started to believe that the 245i queue has Indians in Majority.[/B][/I]

Now I am sure someone will ask the smart question "why then are the dates for India EB3 stuck in April 2001 (the last month for 245i Filers)". The answer to that is companies are substituting Labors from that month and before, giving the 245i as a reason. So the USCIS sees 485 applications popping up every month from Apr 2001 and before and hence keeps the dates there. Even they (USCIS) seem to think that the India EB3 queue is affected by the 245i.

neo
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Neo,
Its wrong , There are lot of Indian people who applied under 245(i) in April 2001, lot of my friends and there roommates applied thru 245(i) eventhough they are IT people.
i just want to say from India lof of people applied labor thru 245(i) ,
when i started my Labor in Sept 2001, My Attorney clearly told me that on April 30,2001 there are more than 25000 applications filed, i dont know from where he Got that information,
I applied in EB3 from Fortune 100 company from NY city and stuck until 2006, they layoffed me in 2005 becoz of retrogression, i came to know that my labor was used to another person.

especially for Indians we have this major hurdle 245(i), if it passes April 2001, then we'll be fine
 
Labor substitution will always happen, and will allow some to cut through the line. I think they should not allow to port the PD when they substitute the labor. This sucks.
 
Get a Staffing company List

It seems, that participants on this thread are overwhelmingly against labor substitution. We need to do the following

Get a List of Staffing Companies that have charged any type of fees/contract towards GC application. This is unlawful as per USCIS.

Send Emails to USCIS and Lou Dobbs informing about this scandal.
There was a news item on L Dobbs about USCIS cracking down on
marriage GC scams
 
nyc
dude you need to wake up and smell the coffee, LC sub is not a scandal.
there are a lot of legitimate companies that do labor substitution. just because you and i are desperate to get a GC, we shudder to think why would anyone leave the GC process, and hence make the labor available for GC,
there are a lot of people who abandon GC for many reasons.
not all Labor sub are illegal. quite frankly there is no basis for us to claim its illegal. unless USCIS discontinues and stops it it is legal. i think the right word could be plugging the "loop hole" in the law.

so going to Lous Dobbs (whos he?? btw is he the messiah of masses) is not going to solve the problem. btw why do you think Lou dobbs will help you, he will use this to say NO to any legal immigration. frankly he will argue that cheap foreign labor is bringing this country down and will ask to abolish EB immigration category altogether...good luck with that...

i am not sure why you are making this a big deal. instead of wasting your energy maybe you should find a sub LC and move your PD.
you think USCIS does not know this exists. you cannot take action without proof.
i got letters from DOL asking about my company, its not that easy to put up a case on a company. when you realise the practical limitations, you will think twice to complain.
get real...
 
As long as labor substitution does not involve moving the priority date, they will be attractive to fraudsters when retrogression exists, and the DOL doesn't have the resources to police them effectively.

To cut down on the fraudulent behavior it has to be made less profitable. Moving the priority date to when the I-140 is filed will still allow legitimate companies whose employees have left to make use of the labor certification, while reducing the value for those who want to sell the LCs. And making them expire when the I-140 isn't filed within a certain time frame also would make it less profitable for those who file LCs with the purpose of stockpiling and selling them.
 
Holding,
what you are saying is right. LS is not illigal at all and whoever gets a chance and have balls should go that route.
I admit i din't have balls and so elected to go the regular way.

We cannot win the battle by saying that LS is illigal and abolish it. Its there to stay. The energies should be spent on making the PD of that subsituted labor as the date of filing the I-140.

This argument contains a lot of credibility and helps the good companies too who are doing the LS for all the good reasons.
We should stop any argument relating to abolishing LS, its not going to happen period.


zzzz4zzzz,
I know there are Indians in the 245i queue.
What I am saying that its not as huge as its been made out to be.
We dont know which applications are clogging up the USCIS at this moment. And benefit of doubt is been overwhemingly given to 245i cases.

Becasue of this lot of people are desperately trying to jump the queue and in effect buyiing labors (prior to Apr 2001) and hence not allowing the dates to move ahead of that.

neo
 
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