Labor substitution ban rule got clearance from OMB

[FunLover2000]

I may not agree...

I want to give benefit of doubt on major companies regarding the labor subs. People for which GC is initiatiated (many big companies initiate GC as early as 3 months after joining them) might have left the company and the big companies may be desperately looking for experianced talent to be recruited and the Labor might be one of the benefit they are offering. I only hope/think the big companies in question are not selling labors, not exploiting employees with nopay/very low pay and not misusing multiplying of same PD (with labor sub, I-140 and then employee switches to its sister concern and carries the PD...repeat for another, another....).

Though some good causes are defeated, I wish labor sub ban.

 

[dcmetro22042]

This is classic case of griping.

You have a 485 pending when you shouldn't and are the beneficiary of mistake of uscis not denying your 485.

Your 485 should have been denied when you downgraded from eb2 to eb3 and it wasn't filed when visa dates are current. Now, you are pointing fingers at others...nice.

Hey unitednations:

Mature up and get the point. Don't take out your anger at every post of everyone. My point was plain and simple. Labor substitutions put many people ahead for getting GCs when in fact they should be way behind many of who have been waiting for their GCs for years. Amnesty (to illegal aliens) is in my view the #1 cause of backlog and wrongful use of this labor substitution might be the #2. If you don't get this simple point, then its sad. And its even alarming to see that a veteran like you would stoop low enough to take out your anger at posts not even directed at you. And btw, you have no freakin right to pass a judgement on my case and my luck. Keep your griping to yourself.

 

[desi3933]

Good Luck

Hey unitednations:

Mature up and get the point. Don't take out your anger at every post of everyone. My point was plain and simple. Labor substitutions put many people ahead for getting GCs when in fact they should be way behind many of who have been waiting for their GCs for years. Amnesty (to illegal aliens) is in my view the #1 cause of backlog and wrongful use of this labor substitution might be the #2. If you don't get this simple point, then its sad. And its even alarming to see that a veteran like you would stoop low enough to take out your anger at posts not even directed at you. And btw, you have no freakin right to pass a judgement on my case and my luck. Keep your griping to yourself.

I-485 can be denied just on the basis of filed when dates were not current. I hope you are aware of this.

Good Luck.

 

[eBhola]

multiplying of same PD (with labor sub, I-140 and then employee switches to its sister concern and carries the PD...repeat for another, another....).

....... and it's rampant, they never allow the labor to die. Some have made good money .. hmm but why blame them ... there are many guys to shell out lots of money to get an early GC.

 

[chanduv23]

Disagree

I got layed off in my 6th year and moved to consulting company and went the PERM way. I did not chase L/C substitution. Reason - I was not comfortable with that concept. I was/is and will always have faith in fair practices. I was offered L/C substitution, people like me are attracted with this carrot, but just bit my collar and said 'no' to it.
L/C substitution is used only by those who are desperate. A lot of jobs go only to GC holders and for h1bs jobs are competitive because if issues associated with it. No matter how tough it is, I take it in the right way and I believe what I am doing is right.
I don't really feel that I lost something because I did not get a GC due to all these issues. I have always warned my friends not to use short cut methods.

I am also not against those who do it, its their personal choice. If they get GC and get a life, hey, I am happy for them

Dude; I don't get angry on anyone. Been there done that. What is disappointing is when people point fingers at others; especially when they are benefitting themselves at uscis carelessness.

The "judgment" comment is the most stupid comment in your posting. All of you guys talking about 245i's and labor substitution and the people using them is passing judgment on them. Many people want their greencards at the expense of others - they only want a solution that helps themselves. If the solution doesn't help them but helps others then to hell with them. If solution helps others but not them then they don't want it.

btw; from my personal experience, the people who chase labor substitution don't think they are doing anything wrong. they believe they are following the law. A good number of them had something go wrong with their case in the past (labor got denied, 140 got denied, not willing to leave current employer because they don't want to give up priority date unless other company has a solution for them). The thought of many people starting from scratch and being on h-1b for 12 years is unbearable for them.

once again; I am not a fan of labor substitution. There are people who abuse it but uscis has a solution for them.

 

[GotPR?]

I agree with UN. People tends to be selfish. They complain to something that they can not get benefit from, but when they gets to the position with the benefit, they'll enjoy it.
I'm sure that some of those who are pounding on labor sub actively used/are using/will use AC21 to change the employer. Totally legitimate process, however, as discussed before here, it produces new labor substitution.(labor sub from the guy who gave up GC process won't be evil force, but the one from AC21 will be). So, how many of those who is going hard on labor sub will give up AC21 benefit only for labor sub ? I'd say none. if they had better opportunity w/o harming GC process, most of those will move.
Or, if USCIS terminates AC21 benefit because it could produces labor sub, I'm 100% sure that all of those opposing labor sub will furiously come back to this board in record time and start ranting.
People just don't have deep thought on what they are doing when spewing venom to others.

I don't like the idea of labor sub, but it is because it could be a nesting ground of fraud, not because they could get early PD.

 

[MA_Labor]

Ok so what's the outcome now? Has substitution been banned after all? Or nobody knows when it's going to be implemented.

 

[dcmetro22042]

Dude; I don't get angry on anyone. Been there done that. What is disappointing is when people point fingers at others; especially when they are benefitting themselves at uscis carelessness.

The "judgment" comment is the most stupid comment in your posting. All of you guys talking about 245i's and labor substitution and the people using them is passing judgment on them. Many people want their greencards at the expense of others - they only want a solution that helps themselves. If the solution doesn't help them but helps others then to hell with them. If solution helps others but not them then they don't want it.

btw; from my personal experience, the people who chase labor substitution don't think they are doing anything wrong. they believe they are following the law. A good number of them had something go wrong with their case in the past (labor got denied, 140 got denied, not willing to leave current employer because they don't want to give up priority date unless other company has a solution for them). The thought of many people starting from scratch and being on h-1b for 12 years is unbearable for them.

once again; I am not a fan of labor substitution. There are people who abuse it but uscis has a solution for them.

My main concern about your post was your way to trying to get your point across. You took an offensive approach that I did not appreciate. What you mentioned now is right and don't blame people for taking the labor substitution approach since USCIS allows them to. I am against companies selling this to make money. They should be under a watchlist and banned. USCIS could've done a better job to control that. Thats all.

 

[indian_gc_ocean]

I agree with UN. People tends to be selfish. They complain to something that they can not get benefit from, but when they gets to the position with the benefit, they'll enjoy it.
I'm sure that some of those who are pounding on labor sub actively used/are using/will use AC21 to change the employer. Totally legitimate process, however, as discussed before here, it produces new labor substitution.(labor sub from the guy who gave up GC process won't be evil force, but the one from AC21 will be). So, how many of those who is going hard on labor sub will give up AC21 benefit only for labor sub ? I'd say none. if they had better opportunity w/o harming GC process, most of those will move.
Or, if USCIS terminates AC21 benefit because it could produces labor sub, I'm 100% sure that all of those opposing labor sub will furiously come back to this board in record time and start ranting.
People just don't have deep thought on what they are doing when spewing venom to others.

I don't like the idea of labor sub, but it is because it could be a nesting ground of fraud, not because they could get early PD.

No body is perfect here. This is a forum to voice individual opinion/immigration issues without OFFENDING others. We don't need preachers here after getting their greencard. Imagine yourself sitting in the country quotas and waiting for your permanent residency for 5 years. If a person is waiting for too long it is very much reasonable to voice his/her opinion.

When you are talking about venom..., have you seen some of UN's posting before agreeing to him.

 

[indian_gc_ocean]

Let's see as of today there is 5,642 posting. 5,300 or so were before I got greencard. Same tone before and after. If I was selfish and cared only about my situation; I could have done something about it long time ago and it would have been a detriment to others...

Also, I learned a long time ago; you can't please everyone; if you try it will get you nowhere.

btw; is it your full time job now to just monitor my postings and then copy/paste what offends you?

I can take care of my job; infact I should ask you about it. Opinions are always welcome, as I said this is a forum to express individual's opinion as dcmetro... expressed, you have no freaking right to curse his immigration status just because you have a different opinion, on top of it you and GotPR say expressing individual's opinion as selfish. If that is what is selfish, then the whole board is full of such opinions. Can you see you guys hypocrisy. Anyway, your apology to original poster is accepted.

 

[indian_gc_ocean]

Who is cursing whose status??? People want solution to their own greencards and what they think is right only seems to fit their own situation.

Any time someone wants to get on a high horse then people will point out maybe something they are doing wrong or benefiting from. That IS HOW IT WORKS IN THIS COUNTRY. IF YOU ARE GOING TO TAKE A STAND AGAINST SOMETHING THAT IS MORALLY RIGHT OR WRONG OR PUT YOURSELF ON A PEDESTAL THEN YOU ARE INVITING SCRUTINY ON WHAT YOU ARE DOING. A PERSON SHOULD NOT BE OFFENDED WHEN THEY GET CALLED OUT.

Originally Posted by dcmetro22042
I am happy when this rule becomes effective. It should help all of us who have been waiting for PD to become current and have been sitting behind companies selling labors to make money. I personally knew two people who bought their labors and one already got his GC last yr and the 2nd one is going to get it soon. It plain sucks.




Your reply

This is classic case of griping.

You have a 485 pending when you shouldn't and are the beneficiary of mistake of uscis not denying your 485.

Your 485 should have been denied when you downgraded from eb2 to eb3 and it wasn't filed when visa dates are current. Now, you are pointing fingers at others...nice.

What do you call this? -- blessing or cursing?, Did he talk to you, after all he just posted his opinion, I would have left it if it is not for you shouting in CAPS. why don't you open your ears and listen to your own shouting? After posting such crap, stop preaching others about selfishness and other things.

Whatever is one's point of view, he/she will post, may be that is wrong; it is to the user to read and use his judgement, you have a point make it without pointing fingers pesonally or at any community. If you do so, there is no value for your sh*t you write for pages and pages.

 

[Nadi]

btw; from my personal experience, the people who chase labor substitution don't think they are doing anything wrong. they believe they are following the law. A good number of them had something go wrong with their case in the past (labor got denied, 140 got denied, not willing to leave current employer because they don't want to give up priority date unless other company has a solution for them). The thought of many people starting from scratch and being on h-1b for 12 years is unbearable for them.

Yes ... thats correct. Most of the guys are driven to these greedy dream merchants for there green card solution.

But most of the guys are in trouble just because of the substitution.. I know some guys working for a consulting company. The company did apply for the labor for the 2 guys who I know. The company later got some two customers who were willing to pay large sum of money for preApproved labor.
The company asked the original guys to pay some extra money for there next process ... they refused and were kicked out. The new customers took there place in job and GC process.

Later the two guys who were in trouble got hold of another consulting firm -- who asked them to transfer the h1b and the billing to there company and gave them the subLabor for a hefty sum.

The two guys now know that -- there labor is filed multiple times as they happened to bum into some other guys from there consulting firm at the attorneys office. They compared there labors and wow they all were so exact.

Don't you think the Attorneys and the companies should have some moral and ethical values. Who is at larger fault - Attorneys or the hard working guys who is driven to the corner with the wrong advice?

Why does USCIS does not hold the Attorneys responsible for filing multiple guys on the same labor? Some have even gone a step further -- by changing the labor too to fit the new customers... is this not wrong. Some have hired sales persons too ... these dream merchants are going everywhere to get some new guys in there net.. even to the gas stations and yes they are very successful.

 

[chanduv23]

Originally Posted by dcmetro22042
I am happy when this rule becomes effective. It should help all of us who have been waiting for PD to become current and have been sitting behind companies selling labors to make money. I personally knew two people who bought their labors and one already got his GC last yr and the 2nd one is going to get it soon. It plain sucks.




Your reply

This is classic case of griping.

You have a 485 pending when you shouldn't and are the beneficiary of mistake of uscis not denying your 485.

Your 485 should have been denied when you downgraded from eb2 to eb3 and it wasn't filed when visa dates are current. Now, you are pointing fingers at others...nice.

What do you call this? -- blessing or cursing?, Did he talk to you, after all he just posted his opinion, I would have left it if it is not for you shouting in CAPS. why don't you open your ears and listen to your own shouting? After posting such crap, stop preaching others about selfishness and other things.

Whatever is one's point of view, he/she will post, may be that is wrong; it is to the user to read and use his judgement, you have a point make it without pointing fingers pesonally or at any community. If you do so, there is no value for your sh*t you write for pages and pages.

UnitedNations 's postings draws me to this forum and for some reason I follow him on this forum. From what I understand, his comments are always insluting and are opposite from other's views. He talks exactly what you don't like to hear. His postings are based on fact that most posters on internet are anonymous and if some is having a problem or an opinion then their opinion may not always be right. There is no reasoning to his logic but then if you look closely into what he tries to say, he actually tries to convey a strong message.

It is like this. Among my friends or known group of people, I am known to have "some knowledge of this process". People call me to ask me questions. But the questions I get is mostly how to cheat the system, how to lie to the officer about a fake stuff, how to bring a relative, etc..... people expect me to give them an insight to the loopholes using my analysing power.

Same with UN. He knows all the stuff to a level where he can use as many loopholes as he can. People approach him with cancerous conditions on their immigration petitions and ask him for a cure.

On the other hand, a lot of people do not understand how govt agencies work. They set protocols for various reasons and they want people to adher to it. They change criteria in between, lot of grey areas that can lead to intrepretions. I currently deal with the City of New York and slowly began to understand how government works. A lot of decisions are made in closed doors. Some have logic and some don't. The immigration process is set up like this for a reason and like it or not, the govt has its own way of dealing.

Not to deviate from this topic, till date we do not have any official news about substitution being banned and we must look at it from the other side. The employer lobby and lawyer lobby will be the last group of people to attest this and the anti immigrants will care least about this genuine issue.

Look at it from the other side and you will know things are not easy. Every group have their own vested interests. It all depends on how much power you have.

 

[kewl]

To self-proclaimed expert UN

UN,

I am following this forum almost everyday and I admire your tips to people on their cases on many instances. BUT Since last couple of days, I see lots of arrogance and contradition in your posts, which is really pathetic and I lost all honor for you. Your posts, especially after labor substitution annoucement from OMB, are too much self-directed and this shows what kind of person you are. It is now very much clear that your motive to help people was only for your business and you do not care whether it is good for people like us or not. So please shut your mouth for being self-proclaimed expert on immigration matter where even DOL / USCIS is not even sure and do not misguide people here. Please understand that with your this attitude, DOL will not going to stop publishing any rule as you are no big gun.

 

[p_aluri]

I am in the same boat

Hi,


I had similar experience back in 2005. I was employed by a company for 5 yrs in CA.

My previous employer applied for LC back in 2002 under Eb2 category. It took almost 3 yrs to get the approval. We got the LC approval in DEC 2004.

My attorney was preparing to file I-140, a week later my employer filed chapter-11. So everything went in vain.

I just stayed with this company for my GC. I wasted like 5 yrs of valuable time just for GC processing.

I was offered sub L/C but I was not comfortable using it.

I ended up finding a consulting company in JAN 2005 and moved on.They have filed my PERM application in 2006. Now I am here on my 8th year and I got 3 yrs H1b extension until 2010.

The game started all over again!

I got layed off in my 6th year and moved to consulting company and went the PERM way. I did not chase L/C substitution. Reason - I was not comfortable with that concept. I was/is and will always have faith in fair practices. I was offered L/C substitution, people like me are attracted with this carrot, but just bit my collar and said 'no' to it.
L/C substitution is used only by those who are desperate. A lot of jobs go only to GC holders and for h1bs jobs are competitive because if issues associated with it. No matter how tough it is, I take it in the right way and I believe what I am doing is right.
I don't really feel that I lost something because I did not get a GC due to all these issues. I have always warned my friends not to use short cut methods.

I am also not against those who do it, its their personal choice. If they get GC and get a life, hey, I am happy for them

 

[kobebeef01]

hi, any updates on this issue? did dol already publish this ruling? my family owns a business and we have one labor cert that is stuck in BPC. the employee that we sponsored back in 2003 already left us for another job but we still decided to continue the process and just use this labor cert for one of employees who might need it. do we have to wait till they finish processing this case or is it better to act now and substitute a new employee?

 

[Nadi]

I was offered sub L/C but I was not comfortable using it.
I ended up finding a consulting company in JAN 2005 and moved on.They have filed my PERM application in 2006. Now I am here on my 8th year and I got 3 yrs H1b extension until 2010.
The game started all over again!

Three of my friends have sailed very smoothly with the subLabor and they have got there GC now.. But they were lucky .. as they had overlapping labors. But everyone may not be so lucky ........

Wait will be longer than had you used subLabor. But this is a neater way.
Working with the subLabor is quite complex, some ask huge amount upfront. Some tamper with the labor. Some force you into a labor where you might be misfit with Ur education and experience. Many bad things out there .. so I guess you are better off with your own labor.

 

[GC_ANY_ONE]

Is this a law yet?

 

[paragsan]

Any final update on this ? http://www.reginfo.gov/public/do/eoViewRule?ruleID=274862
Is this new rule for LC is effective by this time ? when will it get effective ? if some one wants get PreApproved Labor now, is it advisable to do so ?