I'm confused..you're referring to denials whereas the discussion is about denaturalization?
Is your argument based on Gorbach vs Reno?
Iterview passed. Confused and worried
- Thread starter Anuksha80
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Is your argument based on Gorbach vs Reno?
Jackolatern's point: the fact that USCIS deny some applications based upon disclosed traffic violation means USCIS can denaturalize a naturlzied citizen based upon his nondisclosure of traffic violation. Otherwise it is not fair to the persons who disclose traffic violation. If traffic tickets can lead to denial of application, then they become material facts
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I agree, But no innocent should be punished correct?. I want to correct the matter.
what are my options at this point Jack/others ?.
I've yet to come across any recent credible instances of denials that were based solely on non disclosure of minor traffic citations, yet alone any denaturalizations for non disclosure of minor traffic tickets. Imo, it's paranoid to think that by not disclosing minor traffics you are setting yourself up for potential denaturalzation later on.
Did the IO specifically ask you at interview about minor traffic tickets and you answered no anyways?
If your answer is no, then your guilty conscious is making you worry about nothing. I don't see what you want to correct here; disclose some minor traffic tickets so that you won't be potentially denaturalized later?? It sounds silly to me to think that USCIS would even entertain your need to confess something so minor.
nyc_newbie was denied because of 4 trafic tickets in the past (only 2 in teh oast 5 years). He disclosed them. Had he not disclosed them, he might
be a citizen now.
Dude, stop imagining things. If INS is determinied to deport you, they can find (fabricate) anything against you. But why would they do it? Unless you are in their suspect list of some sort why would they go after you? Don't they have anything else to do? Stop splitting hair on the minor traffic ticket issues. I think you are promoting fear in the minds of people.
Jackolantern
Registered Users (C)
My point is that traffic citations are incidents that they have shown a tendency to care about in the past, as there have been denials and court cases about them, some IOs asking for them, and the back of the oath letter asking to list them. So if they ever start an aggressive drive to denaturalize people for lying on the N-400, the failure to list traffic tickets is more likely to be targeted than the failure to list those other trivial incidents you mentioned.
Jackolantern
Registered Users (C)
If they're absolutely determined to deport me specifically, maybe they will succeed one way or another. But if my immigration history provides no obvious lines of attack for them, maybe they will target another guy (who is easier to win a case against because he didn't list his tickets) rather than spend extra time and money to target me.
There are over a million names on the terror watch list, even though in reality most of them have nothing to do with terrorism. That long list could include me and you. When they don't have evidence of terrorism to support their suspicions (which would be the case for the innocent people on the list), their strategy has been to try to deport them.
I am saying what I will personally do. You can choose your own course action.
ATLANTA_N400
Registered Users (C)
But there will be a 'due process' and the defendent will be allowed to take the matter to a court and challenge the strength of
If it to happen so, Personally I will try to form a class action and a couple of TV commercials. There will be millions to join. I will try to beat it all the way up to the Supreme Court. Then again, If it is a class action suit of failry large scope, I am sure the meadia would do their part too. If I still loose at the end along with the millions of others, I will swwallow it and go back to my country of birth.
But what are my options if I get crushed by a car accident before then ?. Or what if a dirty cop plants something in my car during a stop ?.
If someone is arrested, it is a completely different matter, The argument may not stand in the court. I think, there is a certain degree of severety on each of these.
Peace
Spoke to a lawyer
I spoke to an immigration lawyer this morning.
She thinks I am a little paranoid. I offered to pay for the service, but she said I do not need any service at this point. She pretty much laughed off on this matter. However she said, if the traffic violation did result in an arrest - say, by way of going way over the speed limit ( I am assuming reckless driving) I HAVE TO DISCLOSE IT . Otherwise I am not required to disclose it as USCIS is not interested in them. She also said, the USCIS does a fair deal of vetting before they approve a naturalization petition and even before they schedule an oath(???).
I kept asking about the word 'citation' and she said patiently and politely, 'Mam unless you are not telling me something else in your case, you should just go ahead and take the oath. Nothing to worry about for a minor traffic ticket such as speeing too closely or running a red light etc.'.
I spoke to an immigration lawyer this morning.
She thinks I am a little paranoid. I offered to pay for the service, but she said I do not need any service at this point. She pretty much laughed off on this matter. However she said, if the traffic violation did result in an arrest - say, by way of going way over the speed limit ( I am assuming reckless driving) I HAVE TO DISCLOSE IT . Otherwise I am not required to disclose it as USCIS is not interested in them. She also said, the USCIS does a fair deal of vetting before they approve a naturalization petition and even before they schedule an oath(???).
I kept asking about the word 'citation' and she said patiently and politely, 'Mam unless you are not telling me something else in your case, you should just go ahead and take the oath. Nothing to worry about for a minor traffic ticket such as speeing too closely or running a red light etc.'.
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Jackolantern
Registered Users (C)
The media won't help you. If they ever go on another denaturalization rampage, it would be because of a heightened anti-immigrant fever in the country, like the fever that produced the 1996 retroactive law and the attempt to administratively denaturalize thousands in the late 1990s. Naturalized citizens who didn't list traffic tickets will get lumped in with those who lied about serious crimes, and the whole group will be painted as frauds who deceived the US government to get citizenship.
Of course they did
eve though I don't know if it had an effect on my character .My parents always instructed me to to tell even the most unpleasant truth and then close my eyes, reagardless of no matter what happens. I try to keep it in fairly good deal of my life. I had what I thought was a very straight forward and genuine immigration case, including that of Labor Certification(!!!). Now at this point I feel like, I could've perfected at it. Then the life and reality the way we perceive are far from perfection
. Aren't they? .ATLANTA_N400
Registered Users (C)
Jackolantern. I agree, there were some frantic - but mostly missed- attempts from the USCIS during the 90's to denaturalize based on the 1990 Immigration ammendement and a 'misread' statement in it. But Courts have since, stepped in every case that I know of and killed majority of the arguments presented by INS. I know INS failed to denaturalize a fairly large number of cases where the argument was weak. None of them that I know of involved petty traffic tickets. What could've been weaker than accusation of 'failing to disclose a minor traffic ticket that never involved an arrest and fines under $500' in the whole N400 petition.
Last time, I checked, I thought after 2 years there can never be an administrative Denaturalization. Also there are several verdicts that holds true the ability to challenge 'Intend to Denaturalize' notice in the courts, even before exhausting all the Administrative procedures.
Jackolantern: do you know of any thing else ?.
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So that should restore peace in your mind unless you also try to achieve hair splitting accuracy on the minor traffic traffic ticket issues like few folks do around here. Be practical in thinking. I know the language used in explaining the citations is not bullet proof and is quite fuzzy. That is the reason few of the folks jump in on that and try to interpret it to death by splitting hair. Forget all this crap, go take your oath and enjoy life.
ATLANTA_N400
Registered Users (C)
Just a reminder.
Jackolantern has some very good points and nothing wrong in presenting them. Way to go Jack!
Everybody has the right for their openion. Nothing personal nor to be offended of. Personally I applaud when somebody brings up a different view on any matter or when somobody disagree with me (genuinely). People visit this place to discuss things. Yes, we can go all the way and beyond naturalization even without looking one bit at these forums. Or like somebody suggested, there will be less worry and panic for those who do not bother to care much on the issues that we often debate. But we are here, and we should be respectful of the views presented by others. peace and thanks a lot.
Jackolantern has some very good points and nothing wrong in presenting them. Way to go Jack!
Everybody has the right for their openion. Nothing personal nor to be offended of. Personally I applaud when somebody brings up a different view on any matter or when somobody disagree with me (genuinely). People visit this place to discuss things. Yes, we can go all the way and beyond naturalization even without looking one bit at these forums. Or like somebody suggested, there will be less worry and panic for those who do not bother to care much on the issues that we often debate. But we are here, and we should be respectful of the views presented by others. peace and thanks a lot.
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My opinion (and what I'm going to do in 5 months when I will file my N400) is:
- Do not disclose minor (less than $500 fine and no arrest or DUI) traffic tickets
- Bring a clean (meaning license is valid so every ticket has been paid) driver's record at the interview
- Should the IO ask SPECIFICALLY about traffic tickets, then answer yes but that you did not disclose because under $500 and no DUI (and show driver's record)
I mean, it's ridiculous. I drive 80 miles a day to go back and forth to/from work. I got two tickets in my 7-year driving career in the US. Is that bad moral character? Absolutely not. Could that cause delays problem? Absolutely.
Do NOT disclose them. I think the instructions do not even mean that, they were just written in a contradictory way.
I think talking about denaturalizing citizens because of traffic tickets not disclosed when instructions are poorly written is a little paranoid.
- Do not disclose minor (less than $500 fine and no arrest or DUI) traffic tickets
- Bring a clean (meaning license is valid so every ticket has been paid) driver's record at the interview
- Should the IO ask SPECIFICALLY about traffic tickets, then answer yes but that you did not disclose because under $500 and no DUI (and show driver's record)
I mean, it's ridiculous. I drive 80 miles a day to go back and forth to/from work. I got two tickets in my 7-year driving career in the US. Is that bad moral character? Absolutely not. Could that cause delays problem? Absolutely.
Do NOT disclose them. I think the instructions do not even mean that, they were just written in a contradictory way.
I think talking about denaturalizing citizens because of traffic tickets not disclosed when instructions are poorly written is a little paranoid.
The whole point is that, as you say, a few minor traffic tickets is of course not an indication of bad moral character. However, withholding information that is clearly asked for could very well be construed as bad moral character.