Iterview passed. Confused and worried

A

Anuksha80

Registered Users (C)
Hello All.

I am quite new to this forum. I wish I had seen this forum before. This is what happened. I passed my interview yesterday. It took about 5 minutes.
everything went smooth and I was asked to come back on 17th to take the oath. I was so happy and called all my friends and told them about it, That is what caused me to panic.
In the forum, where it asked have you ever been arrested.. cited ?, I had selected NO. because I always thought that question was meant for those who brush with the law, not me. However someone told me after the interview was quite scary!. He said, I had to declare all the traffic tickets as they are citations . I had about 3 tickets all under $200 which I paid promptly. I never thought traffic tickets were citations. So I did not mention about it in the form and when the officer asked the question, about arrest.. citation, I said very confidently NO.
I am a bit disappointed, May be I should've. What if there is a law change or whatever, I am leaving a loophole for them to revoke my citizeship because, as it appears I lied. I would have never done this had I known this. Also I remember reading exception about not having to declare about traffic fines under $500 and no arrest. Some people that I talked to later thinks I can do it now before the oath. I am planning to go over the the DO and tell them about this now. But I am worried. I am running the risk of them denying N400 because I already lied. All my life I had all the records very perfect, and all the way in this immigration journey I had a perfect and honest record and I am having to leave it at a very bad note.
Am I worrying too much guys ?. Will they revoke my citizenship if they know about it some day later. Some people telling me I should not go and deeclare it now that I took an oath at the interview and said everything was a true and then chinging the information would by default will cause to deny my petition.

I am quite a perfectionist and always try to be honest. Look like this thing is going to bother me to the rest of my life, If I do not strighten it. It is too late now
What are your takes on this?. Please help.
 
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My friend, take a deep breath, have a stiff drink, soak your feet in hot water & chilax....nothing to worry about. By the way, Congratulation:D.
 
IMHO, you should not worry about it much at this point. If they are going to deport you, they have to first strip the citizenship which invloves due process. You will have plenty of time to challenge at the court.

However, you should go ahead and tell the IO about the situation, if you are very concerned about it, but then depending on the mood of the officer, he/she can assume it is too late as you already signed the petition at the time of interview stating all was true. But they can also consider it a genuine mistake and look at it more favorably. It all depends on the nature of the situation and officer that you are dealing with.

In case they deny the petition on the aspect of technicality, you still have your GC. let us say that you did not mention it at all and did the oath and became a citizen, then what are the chances that your file will be audited or pulled-out to denaturalize you. I one case I read the the INS did administrative DeNat process for worngfully declaring state of residence. I don't know what happened to the case afterwards.
There is always a chance of things going bad on everything. What are the chances of a naturalized citizen being hit by a car? ;). Can we do something to close that loophole:D

So relax and save your energy for fighting the Denat proces, if it ever occurs.

Experts, please correct me If I am wrong.
The burden of proof for Denaturalization rest with the USCIS. Am I correct ?
 
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ATLANTA_N400 said:
The burden of proof for Denaturalization rest with the USCIS. Am I correct ?
Click to expand...
Yes. But it's not hard for them to prove that you didn't list the tickets. All they have to do is find records of the tickets. It's not like they have to get hold of paper records in another country, or prove that you committed a crime that you were never charged with.

They've already used denaturalization for lying as a tool to kick suspected terrorists out of the country when they don't have enough evidence to prove that they are actually terrorists.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/12/AR2005061201441_pf.html
 
Denaturalization of a citizen for not disclosing they previously claimed to be a US citizen on their naturalization application is much more serious than not disclosing minor traffic tickets. I doubt denaturalization based on non disclosure of minor traffic tickets would hold up in court.
 
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I am planning to go to the DO early on the day of the oath and disclose this issue. The oath event is in the afternoon. Honestly, This is a mistake and as soon as I knew I am trying to correct it.
What do you guys think ?. Do you think it is wise to take an attorney with me just in case ?.:(
 
Don"t worry

YOU DON"T HAVE To DISCLOSE TRAFFIC CITATIONS ( THEY KO=NOW EVERY THING)
CONGRTAS, DON"T GET MISLEAD
 
PAK SISTER said:
YOU DON"T HAVE To DISCLOSE TRAFFIC CITATIONS ( THEY KO=NOW EVERY THING)
CONGRTAS, DON"T GET MISLEAD
Click to expand...

When you've finished shouting would you like to provide proof of that statement because I don't believe you will find anything to that effect in any USCIS publications. The Guide to Naturalization does say that, subject to various conditions, you do not have to provide documentation for traffic citations below $500 but that is totally different to saying that you don't have to disclose them.

For reference, the actual statement from the M-476 publication is:
"Even if you have committed a minor crime, USCIS may deny your application if you
do not tell the USCIS officer about the incident. Note that unless a traffic incident was
alcohol or drug related, you do not need to submit documentation for traffic fines and
incidents that did not involve an actual arrest if the only penalty was a fine less than
$500 and/or points on your driver’s license."
 
For what its worth, I didn't mention it on my app (didn't think I needed to). However I mentioned the speeding ticket during my interview after reading several posts on this issue. The IO told me that I was right in not including my 1 speeding ticket as a citation since it was a "minor" offense and I **paid** the tickets. She said they expect court appearances to be documented.
I would not go back when your app has been approved already and you have been scheduled for your oath. Like a former poster said the Fed has access to every record including parking tickets. Don't worry you are fine.
 
I had mentioned minor traffic tickets on my application. The IO crossed them out with a pen, telling me that I only need to list them if I was taken into custody. I had about 3 tickets...each less than $200 each.
 
Anuksha80 said:
I am planning to go to the DO early on the day of the oath and disclose this issue. The oath event is in the afternoon. Honestly, This is a mistake and as soon as I knew I am trying to correct it.
What do you guys think ?. Do you think it is wise to take an attorney with me just in case ?.:(
Click to expand...

If you decide to go and talk to an immigration officer, be sure to get his/her name and any other pertinent information should the officer tell you not to worry. If you are worried so much, getting his or her name will serve as protection for you in the future in case anything ever comes up...
 
Anuksha80 said:
I am planning to go to the DO early on the day of the oath and disclose this issue. The oath event is in the afternoon. Honestly, This is a mistake and as soon as I knew I am trying to correct it.
What do you guys think ?. Do you think it is wise to take an attorney with me just in case ?.:(
Click to expand...
Based on my personal experience, I can tell you that they do not care about minor traffic tickets. When I declared my tickets (2 speeding, 1 signal violation), the officer during the interview said 'every body has a few of those' but do you have any DUIs? I said No. End of discussion about that point. I know there are die hard folks on this forum that subscribe to the notion that if you do not declare the minor traffic tickets, then it is the end of the world. I am not saying you should not declare them by meeting with the IO early on your oath day, but IMO it is not going to change anything. You seem to be worrying too much for such a trivial matter, I think just to restore peace in your heart, you may want to mee the IO and say what you want to say.
 
mpotturi said:
Based on my personal experience, I can tell you that they do not care about minor traffic tickets.
Click to expand...
Right now, many or most of them don't care. But that is not the end of the story. The real test is whether you can survive a future denaturalization attempt after having failed to list the tickets. I don't expect they can denaturalize people for that, but I'm not going to give them the option to even attempt that, so they're going to see all of my tickets listed whether or not they care about them now.
 
Jackolantern said:
Right now, many or most of them don't care. But that is not the end of the story. The real test is whether you can survive a future denaturalization attempt after having failed to list the tickets. I don't expect they can denaturalize people for that, but I'm not going to give them the option to even attempt that, so they're going to see all of my tickets listed whether or not they care about them now.
Click to expand...
In my opinion that is absolutely the right thing to do. Should the authorities decide in the future that they wanted to strip you of your citizenship for whatever reason, having not been 100% truthful on the N-400 is just what they need as a virtually undefendable reason. This sort of behaviour isn't limited to just government agencies either - insurance companies are notorious for using totally unrelated "mistakes" on original applications to get out of paying claims. It is much better to play by the rules from the outset.
 
In that case you better mention any time you were questioned by police at a random traffic checkpoint , stopped by CBP for secondary inspection at a POE (can be considered as being detained), disclose every citation you received for walking your dog without a leech, and disclose the books you never returned to the library (you never know, there might be a warrant out for your arrest).

At what point would you stop to satisfy your own sense of security?
 
Bobsmyth said:
In that case you better mention any time you were questioned by police at a random traffic checkpoint , stopped by CBP for secondary inspection at a POE (can be considered as being detained), disclose every citation you received for walking your dog without a leech, and disclose the books you never returned to the library (you never know, there might be a warrant out for your arrest).

At what point would you stop to satisfy your own sense of security?
Click to expand...

I agree with Bobsmyth; Yes, by disclosing even the most minor traffic tickets will give you IMHO a false sense of security. But for those who are sworn in to screw you up, will find a thousands of reasons to screw you in one way or the other. What if there is something 'planted' during a traffic stop or caught you in a plot with the help of 'phony' witnesses. You could end up in a correction facility. I would rather get go back home safe after denaturalization!.
I don't think USA will ever become such a country ever. But if that is the case, WHAT IS THE WHOLE POINT OF BEING IN THIS COUNTRY ?. THINK ABOUT IT ?.

ON THE OTHER HAND
What is the worst case scenario if they proceed to denaturalize for such made up accusation, you WILL GET A CHANCE TO TAKE IT TO A COURT or FORM A CLASS ACTION LAW SUIT. My justification will be based on the language, " Do not provide any documentation ... no arrest or fine under $500.". Most people misunderstand as do not mention minor traffic tickets under $500. Remember, Immigrants are required to know only the basic not dvance English. I think this argument will stand up in front of any courts.

And if you loose at the end for such a small mistake, just enough for me to lose hope and trust in the laws of this country, and it may not be worth fighting hard to just stay back here ( Somebody mentioned about communist era Soviert Union). I may have to go back to the parent country. Personally, I AM JUST FINE WITH THAT. :D
 
Bobsmyth said:
In that case you better mention any time you were questioned by police at a random traffic checkpoint , stopped by CBP for secondary inspection at a POE (can be considered as being detained), disclose every citation you received for walking your dog without a leech, and disclose the books you never returned to the library (you never know, there might be a warrant out for your arrest).

At what point would you stop to satisfy your own sense of security?
Click to expand...
I draw the line at traffic tickets because the fact that some IOs do ask for them and some people in the past were denied for traffic tickets (although their denials were overturned) is indicative of the tickets being more likely to cause an issue in the future than incidents with dog leashes or random checkpoints etc. You can draw the line somewhere else.
 
Jackolantern said:
I draw the line at traffic tickets because the fact that some IOs do ask for them and some people in the past were denied for traffic tickets (although their denials were overturned) is indicative of the tickets being more likely to cause an issue in the future than incidents with dog leashes or random checkpoints etc. You can draw the line somewhere else.
Click to expand...

I'll just say don't worry too much about these. If these were worth worrying, the life would become too miserable to enjoy. The chance of
denaturalization due to failure to disclose some minir traffic violation is much smaller than the chance of beking killed in a car accident,
premature death due to cancer, stroke, etc. We are talking about a few dozens of years in the future not about permant residency in eternal
heaven. You don't need to be concerned about what USCIS will do to you when you are 120 years old because they dig up something by then.
and if you do get deported at teh age of 90, consider yourself lucky because you can live to be 90 years old
 
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WBH said:
I'll just say don't worry too much about these. If these were worth worrying, the life would become too miserable to enjoy. The chance of
denaturalization due to failure to disclose some minor traffic violation is much smaller than the chance of beking killed in a car accident,
premature death due to cancer, stroke, etc. We are talking about a few dozens of years in the future not about permant residency in eternal
heaven. You don't need to be concerned about what USCIS will do to you when you are 120 years old because they dig up something by then.
and if you do get deported at teh age of 90, consider yourself lucky because you can live to be 90 years old
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more. I know a handful of people who made all sort of innocent mistakes, but enjoying their citizenship without knowing and worrying about them
To them something that could happen with USCIS in the future is just like some terminal health conditions that can happen any time without expecting ( There are no guarantees)



There has been not a single incident in the history of the USA that they denaturalized for failing to disclose minor traffic tickets. Yet there can be thousands or even more of people making the same mistake. So the chances are remote, even if there would be one- right ?. What are the chances of getting killed in a car accident and what can we do to prevent it 100%.

How can we close all the loopholes for any events in the future. I too often forget that the future is NOT in my own hands. Things could happen, Government could change, economies shatter or flow of immigration reverse.

Having said that there are some facts regarding the USA Naturalization.

Experts correct me if I am wrong.

The administrative denaturalization can be questioned in the court.
They cannot do administrative denaturalization after 2 years of obtaining the citizenship
Even if you have a bulletproof N400, you can lose citizenship on a basis that within five years after obtaining citizenship, you involved with an anti-USA group or an association banned by the USA. Remember the government can accuse you of this 30 year later.

Even if you have a bulletproof N400, you can lose citizenship on a basis that within five years after obtaining citizenship, you did not participate in a congressional hearing.

Even if you have a bulletproof N400, you can lose citizenship on a basis that you moved to settle permanently in another country within 1 year after obtaining Citizenship - THIS ONE WAS LATER ON STAYED BY THE COURT.

Even if you have a bulletproof N400, you can lose citizenship on a basis that ....

So there are so many factors that you wouldn't think of can be brought against you.
Remember an accusation by the government is not the end of it. That is why we have courts and 'BALANCE OF POWER'.
That is what make this country what it is. Isn't it ?. One of the responsibility fo the judiciary is to make sure that neither the Goverment(USCIS) or the Congress is overstepping the rule of this land.
If you cannot rely on that, I don't think there is no bullet-proof N400 approval can be relied on any more.
By the way are you sure of all the information on the F1, H1, H4, LCA, Labor Cert, EB, GC.....; What if your lawyer made a mistake that you were not aware of.
All these can be a cause of worry, IF YOU REALLY WANT TO START.
Peace.:D
 
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