Is it too late for citizenship - Divorce case

[zuleron]

Thanks everyone for your input. I will wait my 5 years period to file for citizenship. Indeed, we purchased our first home before we even got married and I am the one who put down the down payment for the house. I still have the checks when I was packing up my stuff and ready to move on. We also have our car with both of our names, he is under my medical insurance. We also have joint bank accounts, home insurance, credit cards. Some of these I can find and some I can't. Because I really did not expect we will get divorced in our life time.

What kind of questions I will expect the IO to ask if they really suspect? I get nervous very easily even for a job interview.

Reading this forum is helping me a lot. I did not know traffic violation is important to naturalization. I do remember I had one before in my 11 years driving record. If I can't recall when, what should I do?

Thanks a lot for your advices.

I think the collective wisdom of the forum is that because there is a chance that you will NOT be asked about your marriage then being proactive is ill-advised. If that is the case, then I concede the point about being proactive. But I simply cannot believe -- based on what you have said -- that you will not be questioned closely about the marriage because your situation looks like a classic sham marriage.

I suppose also in your situation, you don't care how fast your N400 is processed; you are probably more worried about losing your GC so being proactive simply to speed things up is probably not that important for you.

Also, as John Cash said in his post, it is definitely true that USCIS can ask for more evidence after you send your application but before the interview through an RFE, so there is no need to be proactive for any reason. However, I don't know how being proactive will hurt. Everyone is sort of freaked out by it and says don't do give them anything unless they ask but no-one explains or gives examples showing why exactly it is a bad thing.

I will say this though: I was proactive in my own application about one issue and my IO appreciated it. She was like, "you are very thorough" etc... and I had no problems. But then again, everyone's situation is different, and your IO may not be as accomodating as mine was. So you should probably still consult a practicing immigration attorney in your district. Usually, the initial consultation is free and you only pay them if they do the application for you.

I wouldn't worry about getting nervous at the interview. People get nervous for all sorts of reasons. If the documents you have tend to prove you were married then it will not be a problem. For the documents you cannot find, call the banks, the credit card companies, the insurance companies etc. and have them send you the records. They may charge you a fee but they defeintely have the records preserved.

Good Luck!

 

[LP168]

Thanks again for everyone reply. Sometimes when I am reading all the replies, it just gets a little bit emotional because who knows and can say my marriage is a sham? From what fact did any IO can determine a marriage is a sham? Is it really because I filed for divorced shortly after I got a permanent resident? So why would they not care about the history of our relationship if they want to thoroughly check my entire profile since Day One I came to the US or met my husband? We were together for 10 years and basically we lived together since 1997. Then at 2001 we even purchase our first home together before we got married, how could they see it as a sham marriage??? Sigh....!!!

I could have applied permanent residency on my own through my company since I fall under the Highly Skilled Labor Program Category and they are willing to sponsor me.

I know I don't have to get nervous at the interview, it's just me. However, even I have all the proof such as joint bank statement, deed of trust, house mortgage, they can still suspect my marriage is a sham just purely because of the date! There is no solid foundation on what aspect they can view this as a bad marriage. If we were living happily in our marriage, why would somebody file for divorce in the end? I don't see what kind of explanation can be given if we were to be living happily throughout our marriage life. If you live happily, you would not file for divorce. I see a contradicting point there. I am not getting my conditional permanent residency.

I was not planning to get any attorney because I know the marriage is not a sham. But maybe by the time I am about to apply for naturalization, I will because of the worries.

Thanks for everyone input again! Feel free to reply again.

 

[JohnnyCash]

The history of your relationship with your husband PRIOR to your marriage doesn't matter to USCIS (and should not matter to any logical person) because you didn't and couldn't get US Permanent Residency based upon THAT RELATIONSHIP HISTORY; rather it's the marriage with him that has given you the privilege to live and work in the United States. So, you to say/think that USCIS should keep in consideration of your previous relationship history with your husband prior to marrying with him is totally illogical as a legal point of view if you care to think from a resonsable approach.

Has it ever occured to you why you had a conditional green card at first than a Permanent one even though you had previous history of relationship with your husband prior to getting married to him? Let me tell you why. Prior to 1997 there wasn't a conditional green card; rather immigrants used to get a green card without any condition upon approving of their Adjustment of Status application. But since US govt. has been fully aware of immigration fraud which made them to change the immigration law in 1997. There were thousands of cases/testimonies were presented in Congress at the time when Congress was changing the laws wherein it clearly stated that after getting a green card 78% of immigrants get divorce right away or within a few months and then get married with their real love. According to all these reports/surveys, immigrants marry to US citizen just to obtain green card because obtaining a green card based upon a marriage to a US citizen is the easiest, fastest and least economic way to obtain US Residency.

You will be surprised to know that as per USCIS statistics 81% of marriage cases are fraud. Govt. is aware of it but there is nothing they could do without a solid ground to revoke/deny these people from having US Residency. You having filed for divorce so shortly after obtaining a green card is the sole reason for them to believe that you might be involved in a sham marriage. Having purchased house together, having prior relationship history or anything else to that nature means nothing because the fact is your relationship still got broken despite of all goody things that you are mentioning here to claim that your marriage wasn't a sham. I mean just think as a logical point of view that all these goody things which you are saying here to prove the bonafide of your marriage, yet still they were not solid enough to sustain your marriage; otherwise your marriage had not fallen apart. So obviously, USICS would have a reason to believe that there could be a marriage fraud in your case even though you deny it.

Nobody is here saying that your marriage is a sham marriage; rather what everyone is saying is that your marriage could most probably be seen as a sham marriage by USCIS because of it's ending so shortly after obtaining the green card. You say that you dated your husband for 10 yrs prior to getting married then USCIS (and everyone) would wonder that how surprising that you were able to manage yourself in the relationship with him during all these years but then all of sudden everything went wrong for you and you ended the relationship with him ONCE you obtained your full green card. Don't you find this amusing and strange? I mean if you had not dated him for that many years then people could easily understand about the ending of your marriage because sometimes different cultures/views and incompatiblity between two people cause a marriage to break down. But it's very hard for anyone to understand/believe that a marriage could break down if couple were in a relationship for that many years because that many years are more than enough to get to know each other well. And then everyone would also wonder why marriage got broken ONLY shortly after obtaining a full green card which is the bummer here. I understand and acknowledge that marriages do get broken all the times even after many years later of being in a relationship but most of times those marriages end because of abuses or cheating, which doesn't seem to be the case in your situation because you say that you are still in good terms with him. Not many people remain in good terms with those who abused them or cheated on them. If I were to be an immigration officer, I would revoke your residency right away and would place you under deportation proceeding because breaking of your marriage so shortly after obtaining a full green card especially after having a relationship with him for so many years is leading me to believe that there could be a possible immigration fraud. I would let the immigration judge to decide your immigration fate.

I'm sure there are some real cases similar to yours but that doesn't mean USCIS doesn't suspect a marriage fraud about them; rather they also prove to USICS by clear and conviencing evidence that their cases aren't about sham marriage, which you would be doing if USCIS would question your marriage. You cannot say/expect people (and USCIS) to not to think about your marriage as a sham marriage given the breaking of your marriage so shortly after obtaining a full green card. Since nobody knows the truth except you, your husband and God then you should need to know that people (and USCIS, Judges and anyone) would go by the situation what is seen at front which is that you got separated from your husband so shortly after obtaining a full green card. So you shouldn't question why people think your marriage as a sham marriage. Nobody has any personal agenda with you to think what they think about your marriage; rather they are just giving their opinion based upon what you have told here about your separation and possible divorce, which USCIS would also go with it in order to determine if there was a marriage fraud or not.

As you already know now about the statistics of marriage fraud which I mentioned above, but you will be surprised that nobody ever admits of being involved in a marriage fraud even though evidences/situations would say otherwise; rather they would vigorousily defend themselves by giving all kinds of reasoning. Why do they defend themselves so vigoriously? Because they know that if they would ever be found in involving marriage fraud then they can NEVER get a green card under any category except thru Asylum, which is aside from criminal prosecution. And one more thing, everyone says that they could have gotten the green card thru other ways like thru jobs/family and XYZ, but the fact remains the same that they did not. Thus, no court has ever listened this argument.

Rather than giving all kind of reasoning, I think you should try to gather the evidences of your marriage, which would be the ultimate lifesavor to your immigration life here in the USA than pulling the hair on all kind of irrelevant matters.

 

[Huracan]

Wow, that was a tough and long lecture

I think JohnnyCash is placing the finger at the right place in most or all of the issues. Consider the toughness of the posts as how a person who doesn't know you well, as an immigration officer would see your case with the information you're giving. In any case it is not important that you convince us of your bona fide marriage, it is important that you have enough proof to convince an immigration officer. Put yourself in an immigration officer shoes and think about his role trying to avoid immigration fraud, what would you do?

 

[LP168]

Pardon me if I have showed my frustration on this forum. I totally understood what everyone is saying. My frustration is not coming out from a particular person, rather it's from my own self and how am I going to give proof to the IO if I ever question by the IO. I did not put any reasoning of why we got separated is because I do not want to post any personal matter here except some of the facts like the history of our relationship and what we own or purchased. I just think that a woman will not spend 10+ years to cheat a green card and this is their prime time in anyone's life (this is just my personal opinion and I know the IO will not consider that). However, I just realized that it's totally irrelevant at all and I do feel surprised that there are so many frauds in this country. Please forgive my ignorance on all these facts.

The marriage failed due to a lot of reasons. I cannot prove that there is cheating involved or not but he has been away from home as I mentioned in my first post that we filed for divorced from out of state. We were not physically or psychologically attached to each other and there are family issues (his whole family side issue) which related to money problems; thus has caused to the dissolution of marriage based on different perspective of life and feeling. I don't know if all these count toward reasonings; however, I think problems arises from his extended family is not important to the IO and therefore I did not mention here earlier and simply just talking about our love history.

Pardon me again if I have shown any frustration. I just really hope that someone who has similar experience as me could share some of their thoughts as I really want my record to be clean.

 

[JohnnyCash]

I just really hope that someone who has similar experience as me could share some of their thoughts as I really want my record to be clean.

Not that I'm questioning your comprehension ability, but I don't really know what part of my above postings you don't understand. I've said very clearly and loudly that it's totally pointless to presume the possible outcome of your case based upon other people's situation as to how USCIS dealt with them. Why? Because you will not be interviewed by the same officer who has interewed others. Plus, don't forget that each person is unique and individual. That means each immigration officer is different too in their modus operandi. When it comes to apply the laws, they would do the same as a part of their job. But your situation is not a matter of law; rather it's a matter of common sense and fact.

I'm sure you have heard that many people were easily able to remove the condtion on their temporary green card without an interview like a piece of cake, while others were interviewed very extensively to scrutnize their marriage. Did it occur to you why is there so much inconsistence? Because each officer is different and unique. Some are tougher than others. That's all. Thus, knowing how other people's cases were dealt who were in a similar situation as yours won't do any good in your case; rather gathering as many evidences as possible to prove the bonafide of your marriage is the only thing you should be doing to any of your such concerns.

As for you talking about cleaning your record then do this what I'm going to say now. Whoever filed the divorce complaint needs to withdraw the case completely. Because even if you don't sign the divorce paper yet on this pending divorce case, the divorce decree would show when a divorce complaint was filed whenever divorce would go thru on this pending case, which would be a bummer to your situation because some immigration officers do go by the date of filing the divorce complaint to determine when marriage got shaken/fallen apart. Also, it's very important for you to pay attention to the date of separation/abandonment on the divorce complaint next time around. It should not be within a year of obtaining a full green card. Meaning, the date of your separation or abandoment by either party on a divorce complaint must be a year later of you obtaining a full green card. After 6 months later you guys can easily get divorce in Las Vegas within a few days on the ground other than separation and abondonment if obtaining a divorce would be a problem in your state.

 

[ff1972]

USCIS can not revoke or rescind your GC after 5 years of getting it because of statute of limitation even if theres a suspicion of fraud

 

[Flydog]

You sure about that - they can revoke citizenship if they find that you lied on your application (you normally only hear about that with war criminals, but...) It seems to me that booting a GC is a lot harder than booting someone with a passport

 

[equate]

USCIS can not revoke or rescind your GC after 5 years of getting it because of statute of limitation even if theres a suspicion of fraud

I do not believe this is true. The statue of limitation is effective from the date the fraud is discovered, not when it occured.

Don't you guys watch news in which murderers get arrested for crimes they commited 20-30 years ago?

 

[ff1972]

i found that on the uscis website. It seems that if one has no criminal record or any other thing that make him deportable it's not likely that uscis will initiate rescission proceedings in case of approved GC and divorce shortly after. This will require strong evidence of marriage fraud (for example) and has to fall before 5 years before adjustment. Read the following and let me know what you think.

[Adjudicator's Field Manual - Redacted Public Version \ Chapter 26 Rescission of Adjustment to Lawful Permanent Resident Status. \ 26.1 Adjudication Issues.

Note: Rescission is a cumbersome process once required as a prelude to initiating proceedings against certain lawful permanent residents. See Matter of Saunders , 16 I&N Dec. 326 (BIA 1977) (lawful permanent resident who (1) obtained his or her status through adjustment of status and (2) was subject to the rescission provisions of section 246 of the Act could not be placed into deportation proceedings prior to rescission of his or her status by INS ). Rescission is now an option that USCIS should use only in limited instancesThe following procedures should be followed in those less-frequent situations where USCIS chooses to initiate rescission proceedings.


(a) General . A person who has adjusted status to that of an alien lawfully admitted for permanent residence under sections 210, 240A, (the former) 244, 245, 245A or 249 of the Act, or under any other provision of law may be placed into rescission proceedings at any time during the first five years after the granting of permanent residence, if:


• USCIS determines that the alien was not eligible for adjustment of status at the time that permanent residence was granted; and


• The alien would have not been eligible for adjustment under any other provision of law.

Rescission of Adjustment After Alien Has Naturalized . Section 246(b) of the Act states:


(b) Any person who has become a naturalized citizen of the United States upon the basis of a record of a lawful admission for permanent residence, created as a result of an adjustment of status for which such person was not in fact eligible, and which is subsequently rescinded under subsection (a) of this section, shall be subject to the provisions of section 340 of this Act as a person whose naturalization was procured by concealment of a material fact or by willful misrepresentation.


While this section may provide a legal basis for initiating rescission proceedings against a naturalized citizen without first going through denaturalization proceedings, INS and USCIS have never used this subsection against a naturalized citizen and USCIS is unlikely to do so in the future. Where appropriate, the preferred approach is to initiate denaturalization proceedings under section 340 of the Act, not proceedings under section 246(b) of the Act. (See Chapter 76 of this manual and Chapter 22 of the Special Agent’s Field Manual .) Accordingly, any office contemplating using this provision must obtain the concurrence of the Office of Chief Counsel and the Office of Field Operations before initiating any action under section 246 against a naturalized citizen.


(2) Review . Regardless of the source or the circumstance, when a possible rescission case comes to your attention, you must review the file carefully to determine if the file contains sufficient evidence to support a rescission. Keep in mind that the central issue of rescission proceedings is the alien's ineligibility for lawful permanent resident status at the time that it was granted. In any case where the evidence demonstrates that the alien obtained status through fraud, you should prepare the case for removal pr oceedings. In other cases where INS or USCIS improperly conferred benefits, even though no fraud or deception was involved, you must exercise considerable judgment and discretion to determine whether either removal proceedings or rescission is appropriate.


If the case does not contain sufficient evidence to support a rescission, and it appears that a rescission is warranted, a field investigation (or, if your local office procedure allows, field examination) should be initiated to further develop the facts. Write a memorandum to the file describing the additional evidence or verification of material which would be necessary to complete the rescission, and submit the case to your supervisor for approval. Be sure to mention the date that would be the end of the five year period for that case after which rescission proceedings could not be initiated.