Is INS following ND instead of RD for AOS? -PCee

P

PCee

Registered Users (C)
Is INS following ND instead of RD for AOS? Please share your thoughts.

Here is my response to this...
PCee "August case Approved! Early FP helps!!!!!" 2/27/02 2:02pm

Which came out in the discussion in
kotag kris "August case Approved! Early FP helps!!!!!" 2/24/02 1:26am

Thanks
PCee
 
Yes, I think so!

Myself, Dee Rod and rsrgc had an entertaining discussion in another thread recently.

In order to hasten things up, I am pasting extracts from my post below:
-------------- Extract : Referring to the Month-by-Month theory -----
The existence of an AVM (also the announcement of the arrival of a web based query system) implies that they do have an electronic database of sorts and don\'t process everything entirely manually. It is easy enough to track cases on ANY key in that case.
However, you seem to have some inside info on how they operate, which I don\'t. My conclusions are entirely based on black box, input, output data patterns. And there seems to be too many contra indications to the month-by-month theory.

For instance, if they find that some officers have time on their hands, they probably simply pick up a bunch of files from the pile and assign them. They don\'t have to pick an entire month\'s bunch just for load balancing. If we had a lot of late July approvals also equally distributed, then it would lend more credence to the MbyM theory.

In conclusion, it still looks like a steadily progressing normal curve with the peak value inching forward.

At any point in time you can visualize the last window\'s approvals (say one week) and plot them on graph. If you plot a normal curve with the peak value where most of the approvals lie (currently WAC-260) and the curve stretching both sides (we are still seing WAC-230 approvals as well as WAC-268).

What I am saying is that over time, this bell curve is slowly inching forward.

Which is not really an earth shattering conclusion. It is pretty obvious and pretty useless. And hence academic. But it is nice to see it inching forward. Hopefully it will accelerate even more.

---------- End Extract -----------------------------------

If you look at all the June, July, Aug ND approvals that came in last week almost all of them have an ND of Aug 21-28 (or WAC-26x).

BTW, PCee, I have a suggestion. Would it possible for you to color code the May, June, July lists so that people who have not posted in a long time (lets say Dec. 31) are given a gray background. This will help determine how many people are actively waiting on this board. If you want I can help you in this exercise by identifying the handles.
 
PCee - Agree with U 100%...

I also felt this way when I first saw your summary lists. It still does not make sense to me how INS can process based on RD coz if an application is received on Date1 and notified on Date2, the application in question will not be touched until Date2 during initial processing. I guess all the applications will be sitting in somekind of a FRONTLOG room if you will, until the actual Notice Date(Date2). Receipt Date is still important for \'kicking off\' other attached applications(I131,I765,FP etc.,). I for one would Vote you sorting the data by ND. Thanks for the great service you are rendering.
 
my $0.02

I couldn\'t agree more. But then I too am from the 8/21 - 8/29 category and still waiting. There seems to be some issues related to state of residence, IMHO. I had posted this argument sometime back too and somebody had argued that most applicants are from the bay area and therefore it is only justified to see "more approvals" for the bay area folks. Then, why is there "no approvals" for folks from other states.
I am in a pretty large corporation and there are at least about 25 odd AOS applicants at this time, some who filed as early as April of last year and still waiting. BTW, I am in Oregon.
 
AndyS,

Thats interesting . I hope state has nothing to do because i am not from bay area . I still feel it could be based on ND as we have started seeing aug approvals whose ND is in late august .
 
Yes! INS is trying to get their

statistics work by approving app within 6months from notice date.
Refer to Ziglars \'s message recently he said current average is 13 months .But, we are trying to get it by 6 months.
 
No Title

sonofindia,

Based on the discussions on this board. Priority goes down to month only (whether it is RD or ND), but not down to date! Lets say (for argument sake) there are 100 Aug (with ND) cases on the shelf then may be only 20 got pickedup and still remaining 80 are waiting for an officer to be picked up. Also getting picked up doesn\'t mean that one need to get an approval in exact same order! It is some thing like going from larger bucket to a smaller bucket (officer\'s). It could take any where from couple of days to couple of months for approval after assignment.

If we think they are following ND, and they are following (at least trying) some order then we can only assume that by now if any case that has July or earlier ND and is adjucation ready then that case is already assigned to offcer (i.e. waiting in that officer\'s bucket).

Also please note that still some April and earlier cases are pending for approval.

Thanks
PCee
 
my 2 cents

INS is following no particular order

neither RD or ND or FP date or Location or country or eb category
or priority date

Nor is it following an order based on receipt of all agency reports

It is too random for anyone to guess exactly what is going on in INS

I beleive that all the sections of INS are not fully computerised and this is why u find the mess that is in INS

People are wondering why some people get approved and others dont get approved who have similar dates

Lots of opinions have been formed about the seemingly random method of approvals

Hope that some whiz kid starts organizing INS so that they approve based on some method like rd or nd or fp
 
No Title

goldengate,

I agree with you that on monthly shelf probably cases are not sorted by date! All cases related to that month will be kept on that shelf that\'s all!

Regarding your suggestion: (color coding inactive records), It\'s some thing nice to have but I think it is not practical unless we have some kind of automatic code that can check if the user is active or not! I have data in a table, I can add a date field which says when the user sent last message and based on that keep updating background color, but note that we have app. 700 records (members) right now and how can we go through all these users and see if they sent any messages recently! And we have to check this every time we post the summary!

-PCee
 
I beg to differ Sir

Hi

My ND is 08/17 ( RD : 06/12 ). I am also from Bay Area ( North Bay ). I did my FP as early as 10/30 and I am still waiting with 12/29 processing resumed. So frankly I just don\'t have any hypothesis for this INS mess and would probably save my 2 cents to face recession related stuff.

Thanks

Tamizhan
 
Tamizhan ,

You posted a classic case . Breaking every body\'s predicition on this forum .Hope you get approved soon . Good Luck !
May be it is PD as you did not post your PD . just kidding ..
 
it would be wonderfull

if CSC was systematic and all cases of a particular date (either rd or nd) moved in a systematic manner

for example -
all said fp pending review and then
all said processing resumed and then
all cases were assigned and then
all cases were adjudicated or rfe\'d

the gap between then should not be more than a week

but for no apparent reason april cases started adjudication in november/december/jan and feb

now we are seeing similar things in may and june and july cases

cases are not progressing systematically
 
But again

like DeeRod suggested on this forum , CSC cannot process sequentially . Suppose an officer is processing case1 , he has to put it on hold for some reason and instead of waiting moves on to case2 .
I am sure CSC has a system that they follow to approve cases else they will miss out a lot of cases for this kind of volume . It all depends on luck . Whoever gets approval first is lucky then other person has to just hang on and wait to if his approval would be next . Frustrations can lead to nothing .
 
if officer has to put it on hold

what is the percentage of rfe cases - not more than 10-15 percent

so why are cases being handled in funny manner - there are cases which get approved within 2-3 weeks of fp
there are others that are sitting for 3 months with avm saying pending review
and others with avm changed from pending review to processing resumed in 2-7 days

All things point to unsystematic processing
 
No Title

Tamizhan,

I too don\'t believe that state or place of residence matter directly (it could, if any local clearence or some thing else is involved).

Did you try to call IIO to find out if your case is assigned to officer? Any way if they are following ND then since your\'s is Aug. one it may be still waiting on the shelf to be pickedup.

-PCee
 
rsrgc, saab, goldengate, PCee - remember that...

sometimes before a case goes for an RFE, a supervisor looks at it. Sometimes an officer thinks an RFE is warranted but is not sure and so moves it up for supervisor approval. If the supervisor thinks that there is not a ground for RFE he may notate so on the case and route it back to the officer. The officer then approves it. So, this case went on hold even though there was no RFE. This is one example where you can see where it takes more time for some cases to get approval. Of course there will be some straight forward RFE cases that may generate an RFE soon after assignment. There will also be straight forward approvals.
I think the apparently unsystematic pattern of adjudication is because the whole approval process is so subjective.
Even the background report would vary in time taken from case to case. In my case I have lived in US, went to another country, again came back to the US and in a couple of states with a couple of changes of address in the 5 years prior to applying for AOS. You would think preparing the background report for me would take more time than for someone who came to the US in JAN 2000 and has lived at the same address for the last 2+ years. So, even If I did my FP\'s before the other guy, my case may take more time to be adjudication ready. Similarly, there may be a big variance in adjudication for 2 cases assigned to different officers on the same day. The factors for variance that readily spring to mind are :
1) Speed of processing of officers
2) Experience and training of each officer
3) Number of cases pending with the officer
4) Position of your case in the pile of cases with the officer.
5) Complexity of your case
6) Completeness of your application
7) Personal situation of the officer (vacation, sickness etc)

Again, just because AOS is so subjective, even though INS has a system in place(may not be the most optimal) it may not be very obvious to people on the outside looking in. Like somebody else suggested earlier, If INS does not have a system in place you would not even see the somewhat steady and predictable movement forward of approval dates(ND or RD). There would be hugely wild swings. There would be a lot more cases that fall thru the cracks. INS has a system we just don\'t fully understand the intricacies of their business.
 
I wish!

If INS had some guys like PCee and other folks who are putting such a wonderful tracking system, we would have seen systematic approvals. But hey! how many of us did not know INS do not work the way we wish and not even there is any rationale behind all we are seeing!
 
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