Interpretation of Fujie Ohata's Memo

sairam1,

hI, I have been bugging myself and others to find that what cases would come under this new memo, all or only filed after April 30th, My attorny told me that date in memom just explains that this rule would be in place from this date but every case which is filed concurrent (ND for i-140 and ND for i-485 is same) and where i-140 is not approved would fall under this.

But you have mentioned that only cases filed after april 30th would come under this.

Do you have som info abt this which u could share with me/us?

thx a lot

-manoj
 
Manoj

Manoj,

I am strictly going by the wording on the memo. I dont have any other information.

It makes sense to include all pending 140 and 485 concurrently filed application into this new product line as long as only minimal processing has happened on I-140 (meaning the application has been deemed to be non-frivolous and no RFE has been generated etc).

So all those applicants who have I-140 ND and 485 ND to be the same and have not heard any info on 140 yet, please take heart.

Cheers.
 
concurrent (ND for i-140 and ND for i-485 is same)

concurrent (ND for i-140 and ND for i-485 is same)...

manoj2003,

Can you PLEASE let me know where you see this concurrent processing means both 140 and 485 should have same ND/RD.

thanks
kapoor
 
Tammy

Why do you say AC-21 can no longer be used? Are you saying it bvecause you think that the I-140 and I-485 result will be sent out together?
 
Re: Manoj

Originally posted by sairam1
Manoj,

So all those applicants who have I-140 ND and 485 ND to be the same and have not heard any info on 140 yet, please take heart.

Cheers.

This may not be true. You can have different dates for different applications though filed on the same day.

In 485 application there is a column which talks about 140 approval where you would say concurrently filed.

I guess it would be decided based on this column.

aks
 
XMLkapoor,this is the definition of concurrent filing I learned from my attorny,Sai, this is true, tats what it looks like that we would here results of i-140 and i-485 togethere,though if there would be an rfe on i-140, they would hold i-485 right there, and thats why AC21 would be useless, even sheela murthy mentioned this in her explanation of the memo.

Sai, so you think that people who filed in sep last year and haven's heard anything yet abt i-140 and i-485 may get there both applications processed together vary soon?


plz do share ur thoughts
 
Manoj,

I do believe thats what will happen as long as the 140 applications have not been touched. That to me makes the most sense... But as I said, it is CIS who we are talking about here... So just about anything is possible...

the only sure way to know is to wait for the next processing report to see if this new product line comes up as a distinct line item on the report.

Basically, what I am saying is none of us can have faintest idea / clue to know what would happen.

All we can do is speculate at this time, which is what I try to do.

Ceers.
 
Manoj,

They are planning to skip one Sept 2003 application, which one could that be? Heard it was respectfully put in a box! :D


xmlkapoor,

Read the memo again. I have also posted one interpretation as first post of this thread. You may like to post your points on that too.
 
My ND for 1-140 and 485 is same i.e. jan 2003 and I have not heard about my I-40 though I have seen lot of approval which have ND after jan 2003.
Which category my case will fall?
Am I a gainer or looser.
 
Re: Tammy

Originally posted by sairam1
Why do you say AC-21 can no longer be used? Are you saying it bvecause you think that the I-140 and I-485 result will be sent out together?

They are not going to approve your I-140 alone when you file con-current. They are introducing new game just show they have small number in backlog. That's all it is.
 
Re: Re: Tammy

Originally posted by tammy2
They are not going to approve your I-140 alone when you file con-current. They are introducing new game just show they have small number in backlog. That's all it is.

Please provide rational behind your statement. I was sceptic too(and on same grounds) - I had mentioned in one of my posts on same lines. But then, after seeing the changes in NSC - I have reasons to believe that something positive is coming up finally.
 
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Jharkandi,

I have read the memo so many times. I still don't understand on What basis you said "This clearly says that concurrent filing is one which was accepted in same day/same packet.". May be I am missing something. I really appreciate If you clear this knot.

I have talked to my Attorney about this. He said concurrent filing means "filing 485 before 140 is cleared, no need to be in same packet or same day".

I believe Its LOT LOT easier to write a device driver than understanding this legal stuff ;).

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

- kapoor


Originally posted by Jharkhandi
Manoj,

They are planning to skip one Sept 2003 application, which one could that be? Heard it was respectfully put in a box! :D


xmlkapoor,

Read the memo again. I have also posted one interpretation as first post of this thread. You may like to post your points on that too.
 
Originally posted by xmlkapoor
Jharkandi,

I have read the memo so many times. I still don't understand on What basis you said "This clearly says that concurrent filing is one which was accepted in same day/same packet.". May be I am missing something. I really appreciate If you clear this knot.

I have talked to my Attorney about this. He said concurrent filing means "filing 485 before 140 is cleared, no need to be in same packet or same day".

I believe Its LOT LOT easier to write a device driver than understanding this legal stuff ;).

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

- kapoor

OK let me quote piece of memo again:

Upon publication, then legacy Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) and subsequently U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services began accepting concurrently filed I 140s and I-485s as well as 1-485s associated with still pending I-140s.

And then it keeps talking about concurrently filed I-485 . Why should someone use lingo to differentiate against popular understanding about concurrent filing? I used to believe the same as explained by you. But now I feel differently.

My understanding now is that concurrent is one which is sent in same packet together. The ones which are not sent together is not concurrent.

Filing 485 on pending 140 is allowed due to the fact that immigrant visa is available but it cannot be counted concurrent.
 
One argument that I could quickly think:

XYZ files 140 only in August 20XX cause 485 quota is not current any more. Next year quota of immigrant visa opens up. XYZ files 485 now. Is XYZ concurrent filer? For which year should USCIS count XYZ's benefits? See right now when all immigrant visa is current what your lawyer is saying seems correct, but not in XYZ's case. XYZ will get all the benefits of Ziglar memo except those where is is counted if XYZ is concurrent filer!

Unless both 140 and 485 are filed together and accepted by USICS in one packet it is not concurrent.

xmlkapoor - maybe you would like to talk to your lawyer from this angle. :cool:
 
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Thanks Jharkandi, It makes sense now. I will talk to lawyer and post it If there is something we must know.

Thanks guys
kapoor

Originally posted by Jharkhandi
One argument that I could quickly think:

XYZ files 140 only in August 20XX cause 485 quota is not current any more. Next year quota of immigrant visa opens up. XYZ files 485 now. Is XYZ concurrent filer? For which year should USCIS count XYZ's benefits? See right now when all immigrant visa is current what your lawyer is saying seems correct, but not in XYZ's case. XYZ will get all the benefits of Ziglar memo except those where is is counted if XYZ is concurrent filer!

Unless both 140 and 485 are filed together and accepted by USICS in one packet it is not concurrent.

xmlkapoor - maybe you would like to talk to your lawyer from this angle. :cool:
 
I wish I was a lawyer. :D It is all fun and no work!

No offense to hard working lawyers - hardly working one read it thrice before taking another nap - I wish to join your lot!:cool:

Hope I did not disappoint you xmlkapoor. Are you concurrent filer?
 
Re: Let me know if you agree with this ...

Originally posted by sairam1
The memo proposes a new processing methodology for concurrently filed 140/485 applications and lays guidelines on how the applications should be processed. It does not talk anything about pending I-140 applications or I-485 applications, whether or not they were concurrently or independently filed.

It also clearly signals that a concurrently filed 140-485 application should be considered a new product line.

The backlogs for EB 485s that are at NSC can be classified as follows:

1. Pending 485 filed independently after approval of I-140
2. Pending 485 filed concurrently with I-140 .... 485 pending after approval of I-140
3. Pending 485 filed concurrently with I-140 also pending

For all of the above categories a clear processing priority (meaning RD or ND or whatever) has already been established. It is a different matter whether the CIS processes by this order or not.

The Ohata memo seeks to establish a new product line - fresh and concurrently filed 140-485 applications after the date of the memo (3/31/2004).

Since it is new and given that the other categories have mammoth backlogs, I personally do not think large number of resources will be transferred from those categories to the new one to the detriment of those catgeories. It simply is not logical and does not serve any useful purpose and opens the door for accusations of discriminations, which, make no mistake, it will be.

I understand it is CIS that we are talking about, here and hence there is really no place for logic. (point to note here: NSC has already stated to AILA that existing 485 processing might slow down because of the new directive from the Ohata memo - which leads me to believe that the existing resources assigned to existing 485 cases at NSC are so low that any change, even a minor one, will negatively impact processing of existing backlogs).

CIS perhaps believes, and rightly so, most (90%+) future I-140 applications will be concurrently filed with 485 applications as well. Given the fact that the memo directs the 140 and 485 be processed at the same time, the entire package will probably go to the same adjudicator, instead of different people as it probably happens now.

Thus establishing this as a new product line and laying out clear guidelines for it to be processed is probably a good thing to do. But they need to balance this with adequate resource allocation to process this product line.

CIS will probably move a part of a current senior team of adjudicators handling 140 applications moved over to handle this new product line and be additionally tasked with addressing its concurrently filed 485. I also expect a limited number of 485 adjudicators moved over to help with the new team as needed.

Bottom Line: Existsing speed of 485 processing will not be hampered dramatically becuase of this change (unless the team processing the 485 is so small - say 2 adjudcators - that moving some - or 1 - away will seriously impact processing speed).

140s filed concurrently with 485 will be benefited the most. Those fringe cases where 140 is not filed concurrently will suffer the most, as they are exceptions and will not be considered norm.

Thoughts, people?

sairam1 - date is something which is yet to be ascertained. I would definitely agree on your interpretation except that I think dates Mar 31, 2004 may not stand, could be different.

Accusations of discriminations is not new to USCIS either. They have been practicing it openly for years now. Do you feel one more will make any difference for them? Well it is not discrimination anyways. It is effort to streamline things, which should have been done in 2002 only. With increase in fees other category will get benefit too, albeit not right now. That delay is definitely wrong.
 
Not really man... I really appreciate all your insights...I wish I filed my 140 and 485 filed together. But I didn't. I yet to file 485. I am planning to file after 30th. I guess it doesn't make much difference.

The good thing I have filed a future labor through friend. Luckily that labor got approved recently. So I am thinking to foget my I-140 and go to my friends company. So that I can use it. I am still thinking.

Whether I get benefit or not by this memo, I believe ( ofcource we all ) this decision is clearly NOT fair.

Thanks
kapoor

Originally posted by Jharkhandi
I wish I was a lawyer. :D It is all fun and no work!

No offense to hard working lawyers - hardly working one read it thrice before taking another nap - I wish to join your lot!:cool:

Hope I did not disappoint you xmlkapoor. Are you concurrent filer?
 
Originally posted by xmlkapoor
Not really man... I really appreciate all your insights...I wish I filed my 140 and 485 filed together. But I didn't. I yet to file 485. I am planning to file after 30th. I guess it doesn't make much difference.

The good thing I have filed a future labor through friend. Luckily that labor got approved recently. So I am thinking to foget my I-140 and go to my friends company. So that I can use it. I am still thinking.

Whether I get benefit or not by this memo, I believe ( ofcource we all ) this decision is clearly NOT fair.

Thanks
kapoor

File concurrent this time. Or if you are going to stay with old employer - withdraw 140 and file it again.

I have one more argument:

XYZ travels back in time to 2003 and files 140 from VSC. Then files 485 after lawyer gets 140 reciept. Now XYZ gets one approved labor and files 140 from NSC. After that he travels to 2004, gets 140(NSC) approved and tells his lawyer to substitute 140. Then he claims it is concurrent as 485(VSC) was filed when 140(VSC/NSC) was not approved. And substitution of 140(NSC with VSC) is legal and conforms to the fact that it is equivalent to original 140. Goes to Ohata and says - get me my GC NOW. I AM CONCURRENT FILER.

But this is just a story - thankfully time travel is not possible. :eek:
 
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