INFOPASS APP. AS8 not OK to visit COP

F

fasaavedra

Registered Users (C)
Hi everyone. Just wanted to let you know about my infopass appointment today in Miami.

I spoke with an IO (black female and very friendly at very beggining), first of all, my first question was, what do I need in order to travel outside the US?, she said to me , are you a green card holder right? I said yes, she said, no matter what Green Card Category states on it, all you need is your NP and the green card. Then, i had to ask her...... last question, I received my green card based on derivate asylum, is Ok for me to visit my country ( COP )? , she said ( right now, not very friendly), DO NOT do that, not you, not AS6 , not AS7, you need to wait until become Citizen .... after that I refuse to ask anything else, she blocked me out with that answer. I wanted to ask her, so if i ever get questioned about why did I go to visit COP if you were persecuted in your country, i will tell her that I never were persecuted in my country, it was my dad and I took advantage of the nicest privilege in the world, that is live in the US permanently and legally.....

You guys think her answer is correct? or all IO can think differently and apply their rules the way the want??

Should I stop visiting " COP " ( does not applicable to me , honestly )

Thanks for any comments.
 
I personnally don't think her answer was correct. I mean if you think about it logically a derivative is just a person who is/was a dependant of the main applicant and that's why he/she was given permanent residence and not becuase he/she was persecutted. But the problem is you never know who you are going to get at the POE or at the citizenship interview. You never know, you might get this same lady or somebody who thinks like her. I believe that you can always argue/fight it and I believe you will win your case, but I am sure the process will be stressful. If I was a derivative, I would not be afraid to go to COP if I wanted to.
 
I always fail to see the difference between derivative and principal. The fact that the derivative does not have to prove persecution does not mean that the derivative didn’t suffer from persecution. Indeed, the principal normally argue that his family (children, wife, etc) are persecuted at the initial interview. The derivative does not have to prove persecution because the principal had proved it. When the derivative shows up for an interview his name and claim of persecution by the principal is on file. That is the logic for giving derivative asylees asylum. For derivative to go back to country of persecution negates the principal’s claim that the whole family was persecuted. Therefore, asylum whether derivative or principal is the same. The derivative is even weaker because if the principal’s status is revoked the derivative unravels automatically.
 
faysal said:
I always fail to see the difference between derivative and principal. The fact that the derivative does not have to prove persecution does not mean that the derivative didn’t suffer from persecution. Indeed, the principal normally argue that his family (children, wife, etc) are persecuted at the initial interview. The derivative does not have to prove persecution because the principal had proved it. When the derivative shows up for an interview his name and claim of persecution by the principal is on file. That is the logic for giving derivative asylees asylum. For derivative to go back to country of persecution negates the principal’s claim that the whole family was persecuted. Therefore, asylum whether derivative or principal is the same. The derivative is even weaker because if the principal’s status is revoked the derivative unravels automatically.
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Thankful can correct me if I am wrong but according to U.S asylum laws, you get derivative status ONLY if the principal had the relationship on his application and you prove that.

They do not ask you to prove that you are also persecuted as the principal...Thats why it was ok to go back to COP for derivatives..??
 
Sorry...

Faysal, I beg to differ. I know a male asylee who got asylum in this country for belonging to a politcal party in his country at one time. Eventually his wife and kid (7 years old) got derivative asylee status. Kid and wife got asylum because they naturally want to live as a family here and not that their lives would have been in danger. Now that kid is 16 years old and has a GC. If someone tells me that he can't travel back to home country, I think that statement wouldn't make any sense. The political party his father belonged to doesn't even exist anymore. It is hard to generalize.....
 
Punjabi_Munda said:
Faysal, I beg to differ. I know a male asylee who got asylum in this country for belonging to a politcal party in his country at one time. Eventually his wife and kid (7 years old) got derivative asylee status. Kid and wife got asylum because they naturally want to live as a family here and not that their lives would have been in danger. Now that kid is 16 years old and has a GC. If someone tells me that he can't travel back to home country, I think that statement wouldn't make any sense. The political party his father belonged to doesn't even exist anymore. It is hard to generalize.....
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Punjabi-Munda: Nice to hear from you, and I welcome your dissent; each case is different but my generalization is based on my experience, and my experience could be different than yours. Also there are different categories of asylees, the Iqari case.


As I told you before I used to work for IRC, which is a non-for-profit organization that helps asylees and refugees resettle here in USA. There were certain countries that were eligible for the program. In all situations a refugee whether asylee or refugee to qualify for the program they must live in a third country. For example, I don’t know your friend’s specific case details, but for his family to qualify for resettlement in the US they “MUST” live outside of the country of the principal’s persecution. If your friend sponsored his family through his home country’s embassy and they came here through that channel then I am ignorant of the procedure.

As far as I know once an asylee is granted asylum here in the USA he or she is eligible to sponsor his family who are living in third country and they are presumed to be same as the principal (in danger of persecution and need protection). As far as know unless there are special circumstances if the principal’s family live in their home country they are not eligible to resettle. If there are other ways to resettle you may educate me…and let me know if your friend sponsored his family through their home country’s embassy….
 
I agree with you Punjabi_Munda.
and Faysal, tell me something as I see you are very UNABLE to diferentiate between AS6 and AS8, let says my dad o whoever is the principal of the asylum goes back to COP after we all get GREEN CARD, and when returning to US a IO decided to cancels his GC, are you gonna tell me that I will lose mine as well?? Does not make any sense. Im GC holder now, and no longer asylee. Green Card could not be canceled for whatever somebody else do or travel to.
Got it??
 
wantmygcnow said:
Thankful can correct me if I am wrong but according to U.S asylum laws, you get derivative status ONLY if the principal had the relationship on his application and you prove that.

They do not ask you to prove that you are also persecuted as the principal...Thats why it was ok to go back to COP for derivatives..??
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My point here is: what did the principal tell the interviewing officer? Of course right. the only thing that a derivative asylee is reqiured is a prove of relationship to the principal, but what did the principal say about his family......why would someone be in danger and his family would be safe. Of course if you have political opponents who are determined to murder you, they sure will murder your children and wife and brothers if they get the change...and that is the basis of derivative asylum...
 
Faysal,

I too beg to differ. In some asylum cases, the whole family might be persecutted, but it's not always true. The derivative asylum is in place so that families can live together and not because each family member is persecutted.

Also, when you apply for asylum, you don't even have to list your family members at the time of the application and interview. You have 2 years after asylum approval to add family members (the relation must have existed before the approval), therefore this by itself, I think, proves that your family members don't need to have to do anything with your asylum case for them to get derivative asylum.

A person I know who got asylum here in the US was able to get derivative asylum status for his 2 children who were still living in his COP. They never were persecutted. They were able to come to the USA after their process was approved and nobody ever asked them if they were persecutted or not. They actually went back and forth to their country many times and are now citizens.
 
fasaavedra said:
I agree with you Punjabi_Munda.
and Faysal, tell me something as I see you are very UNABLE to diferentiate between AS6 and AS8, let says my dad o whoever is the principal of the asylum goes back to COP after we all get GREEN CARD, and when returning to US a IO decided to cancels his GC, are you gonna tell me that I will lose mine as well?? Does not make any sense. Im GC holder now, and no longer asylee. Green Card could not be canceled for whatever somebody else do or travel to.
Got it??
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I haven't discussed anything that have to do with greencard. I know for sure 100% that if the principal asylum is revoked that the derivative's asylum will cancell. however, that could apply at the I-94 stage. I don't know about greencard and how that affects...get it...
 
faysal said:
Of course if you have political opponents who are determined to murder you, they sure will murder your children and wife and brothers if they get the change...and that is the basis of derivative asylum...
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Assumption is not what US goes by but what is in the Law. If the law says, your family can get derivative status ONLY if you were married during asylum grant..thats how it is...If there is nothing else than nothing else is needed.

I don't think they will open up the principals asylum application and say "WAIT, YOU DIDN'T SAY YOUR FAMILY WILL BE KILLED ALSO"....

Its more about family unity for asylee who left their families behind..rather than proving that your family was also persecuted.
 
One more thing, if it was "assumed" each family member was persecutted, then instead of giving them derivative asylum, the USCIS would have asked each family member to prove their case.
 
It seems majority is against me; so I have to back off....Good discussion though...cheers...Happy Valentines day :)
 
faysal said:
It seems majority is against me; so I have to back off....Good discussion though...cheers...Happy Valentines day :)
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No one is against you but we should all go by laws, facts etc. Like someone posted that on I-485 application, you also need police certificate, however the rules listed on USCIS website don't..so why should we make up things if USCIS says we don't need?
 
Yes,

Hey good to see you to Faysal. I think MGTGrl your question what you directed towards me in your follow up post, so I won't answer it again. I hope you got our point.
 
fasaavedra said:
So, in conclusion......AS8 should be OK to visiti COP?
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Yes...and even if some IO gives him/her a hard time because the IO didn't do his job right, the AS8 has a good ground to "fight" the case.
 
faysal said:
It seems majority is against me; so I have to back off....Good discussion though...cheers...Happy Valentines day :)
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Happy Valentines to you too...By the way, nobody is against you. We just didn't agree with the info you provided...that's all!
 
MGTgrl said:
Happy Valentines to you too...By the way, nobody is against you. We just didn't agree with the info you provided...that's all!
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Yes: sorry for the anbigiuty. I meant you were against my opinion; I do like to give up if there is enough folks against my opinion. And remember that the IO supported my opinion...
 
faysal said:
I always fail to see the difference between derivative and principal. The fact that the derivative does not have to prove persecution does not mean that the derivative didn’t suffer from persecution. Indeed, the principal normally argue that his family (children, wife, etc) are persecuted at the initial interview. The derivative does not have to prove persecution because the principal had proved it. When the derivative shows up for an interview his name and claim of persecution by the principal is on file. That is the logic for giving derivative asylees asylum. For derivative to go back to country of persecution negates the principal’s claim that the whole family was persecuted. Therefore, asylum whether derivative or principal is the same. The derivative is even weaker because if the principal’s status is revoked the derivative unravels automatically.
Click to expand...

I must agree on this one. After I have been granted asylum I applied for the derivative asylum for my child, who was 6 at that time. My asylum is not of a political category, so it was not automatically assumed that my child is persecuted as I was. But I HAD to submit PROOF that my child is in danger remaining in my COP. Only after the evidence was reviewed the derivative asylum was approved. It is a different thing, though that all the papers have gotten stuck in National Visa Center for 4 years now... Even though I would not want my child to have the same limitations as I did/do as asylee...
 
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