Inerview question- How did you apply for I-485s without having their priority dates current

[Jackolantern]

You can, but why? I wouldn't do anything unless their existing I-485s get denied. If you want to throw away $2000 you can just give it to me.

It's not throwing away money. Their existing I-485s are doomed now that USCIS is aware of the issue. The only thing that can save them is if the I-140 was actually in EB2, or if the true receipt date was actually in June 2005 and not July.

I'm looking at my I-485 receipt and approval notices. The receipt date on the approval notice is 4 days later than the receipt date on the receipt notice. However the receipt date on the approval notice matches the Notice Date on the receipt notice. If a similar clerical error occurred in this case, that might put the true receipt date back in June 2005, when all of EB3 except India and China were current.

If the receipt dates reported in this thread are accurate, and the case is truly in EB3, it doesn't make sense to hold out for hope of their green cards being approved based on their existing I-485s. Even if approved, their green cards would forever carry a cloud of gloom. For the next 5 years, they'll have to worry about USCIS possibly rescinding their green cards because the approval was in error, and even if they make it past the 5 years with their green cards intact, this issue can be used to deny their citizenship for the rest of their lives*. They each need a clean new I-485 that isn't affected with this issue.

I wouldn't. USCIS may be clueless, but I'd be personally rather shocked if after all these opportunities to deny the I-485s they have not done so.

I'd be shocked if they approve the I-485s, now that they've seen the error of accepting them.


*unless they surrender their green cards and go through the whole immigration process again to get fresh and untainted cards

 

[Jackolantern]

Yes, the priority and receipt dates given by me are very correct. Actually all of my I-140 and all family members I-485 processes are initiated and applied thru attorney.

Are you 100% sure? Do you have all the I-485 receipt notices in your hand right now? And the I-140 approval notice?

I had one I-140 under EB-2 but the same I-140 is converted back to EB-3 couple of years ago.

Converted to EB3 why and how? Clerical error, or was it truly EB3 based on the job requirements and your qualifications? Was your I-485 filed with an EB2 I-140, and then they downgraded it to EB3?

I am rigorously following up with Baltimore DO office where I-485 petitions are pending. I have another InfoPass appointment on 01-03-2013.

Before the Infopass, I suggest you gather up your documents and meet with your attorney to reconstruct the facts of your case and determine whether the derivative receipt dates were really in July 2005 and whether your case is really EB3.

You haven't mentioned if your wife was born in India or China. Was she? If she was NOT born there, cross-chargeability would have put her and your daughters in the Rest of The World for country classification, which could affect I-485 eligibility, particularly in light of the receipt date clerical error I mentioned above.

You feel that I do not need to worry about my wife's naturalisaction. This is since it is more than 5 years after the approval of her Greencard.

Worst case is revoking her citizenship and reverting her to green card status. But revocation of citizenship is rare, and when they pursue revocation it is because they want to deport, and revocation would not make her deportable so they won't waste their time.

During the interview on 12-28-2012, officer was saying that I can go ahead and complete my naturalisation and that does not impact I-485s of our daughters. May I believe that?

Your naturalization wouldn't affect your daughters cases if USCIS already interfiled those I-485s to connect them to the I-130s filed by your wife. However, even if those I-485s are transferred to your wife's petitions, their I-485s are still in danger of being denied because they were ineligible when filed in 2005.

Now you are also suggesting to complete my naturalisation and apply new I-485s for our daughters as soon as possible.

Yes. New I-485s, along with new I-130s filed by you. The facts as reported in this thread (if accurate) mean their existing I-485s are doomed. Even if USCIS makes the mistake of approving them with the existing I-485s, that erroneous approval will forever hang over their heads -- they'll have to worry about USCIS undoing the approval in the next 5 years, and after that they still have to worry about USCIS denying their citizenship for the rest of their lives. Although they cannot take away a nonfraudulent erroneous green card after 5 years, they can forever deny citizenship based on the error.

 

[sarwarmd]

It's not throwing away money. Their existing I-485s are doomed now that USCIS is aware of the issue. The only thing that can save them is if the I-140 was actually in EB2, or if the true receipt date was actually in June 2005 and not July.

I'm looking at my I-485 receipt and approval notices. The receipt date on the approval notice is 4 days later than the receipt date on the receipt notice. However the receipt date on the approval notice matches the Notice Date on the receipt notice. If a similar clerical error occurred in this case, that might put the true receipt date back in June 2005, when all of EB3 except India and China were current.

If the receipt dates reported in this thread are accurate, and the case is truly in EB3, it doesn't make sense to hold out for hope of their green cards being approved based on their existing I-485s. Even if approved, their green cards would forever carry a cloud of gloom. For the next 5 years, they'll have to worry about USCIS possibly rescinding their green cards because the approval was in error, and even if they make it past the 5 years with their green cards intact, this issue can be used to deny their citizenship for the rest of their lives*. They each need a clean new I-485 that isn't affected with this issue.


I'd be shocked if they approve the I-485s, now that they've seen the error of accepting them.


*unless they surrender their green cards and go through the whole immigration process again to get fresh and untainted cards

Jackolantern and TheRealCanadian,

I really appreciate your thoughts and discussions.

There was an error in receipt date and notice dates in my signature. I just corrected my signature. My families I-485s receipt date is June-2005 and not July-2005. You have already mentioned that all the countries except India and China had their priority dates current in June-2005.

http://www.uscis.gov/ilink/docView/AFM/HTML/AFM/0-0-0-1/0-0-0-8624/0-0-0-8666.html

If you look at the above link's B) Refund of Fees Where an Alien Unnecessarily Filed a Second Adjustment Application, there is a possibility that now USCIS might suggest to apply second I-485. If USCIS suggests to apply second I-485, USCIS will also wave the fees.

What do you think about this definition?
I will be seeing the immigration officer on 01-03-13 with InfoPass appointment. Probably I request to allow me to speak to the supervisor who has experience in dealing employment based I-485s. I think, Baltimore DO has two supervisors and one of them is experienced in employment based I-485s

Thanks,

 

[TheRealCanadian]

There was an error in receipt date and notice dates in my signature. I just corrected my signature. My families I-485s receipt date is June-2005 and not July-2005. You have already mentioned that all the countries except India and China had their priority dates current in June-2005.

As I suspected. It's pretty much impossible for you to have filed an I-485 when your category was U and had it accepted, passed around multiple times and not rejected. I expect your substitute LC was filed before January of 2002, and you were current.

I will be seeing the immigration officer on 01-03-13 with InfoPass appointment. Probably I request to allow me to speak to the supervisor who has experience in dealing employment based I-485s. I think, Baltimore DO has two supervisors and one of them is experienced in employment based I-485s

Honestly, I'd just ask to expedite the derivative I-485s. That would be the simplest.

 

[Jackolantern]

There was an error in receipt date and notice dates in my signature. I just corrected my signature. My families I-485s receipt date is June-2005 and not July-2005. You have already mentioned that all the countries except India and China had their priority dates current in June-2005.

Now can you confirm whether your wife and kids were born in India or China? And look through your documents to determine whether you're really in EB3. And also double-check the priority date on your I-140. An older priority date may make them current for June 2005 even if they're India/China. I don't believe your priority date was really August 2004, given that you filed your own I-485 in December 2004. Labor certifications weren't getting approved that fast in 2004.

If you look at the above link's B) Refund of Fees Where an Alien Unnecessarily Filed a Second Adjustment Application, there is a possibility that now USCIS might suggest to apply second I-485. If USCIS suggests to apply second I-485, USCIS will also wave the fees.

(B) Refund of Fees Where an Alien Unnecessarily Filed a Second Adjustment Application .

Unless there was a USCIS or INS error involved in the alien filing an unnecessary second adjustment application, the fee paid by the alien should not be refunded (even including the penalty fee under section 245(i) of the Act). However, if the alien or his or her legal representative was advised by USCIS or INS that a new application and fee were required in order to convert from one adjustment basis to another, the alien may request and USCIS may approve, a refund of any fees paid on the second I-485 (including the penalty fee under section 245(i)).

I don't think this helps in your situation. If you have to file a new I-485 for each daughter because the old I-485 was ineligible when filed, that wouldn't be an unnecessary second filing; the second filing would be necessary because of the ineligibility of the old one.

 

[Jackolantern]

Honestly, I'd just ask to expedite the derivative I-485s. That would be the simplest.

Yes, if the original labor certification was before June 2002, it would have been current in June 2005 and also current according to the latest visa bulletin, making the daughters eligible for immediate approval as derivatives without interfiling.

 

[sarwarmd]

Now can you confirm whether your wife and kids were born in India or China? And look through your documents to determine whether you're really in EB3. And also double-check the priority date on your I-140. An older priority date may make them current for June 2005 even if they're India/China. I don't believe your priority date was really August 2004, given that you filed your own I-485 in December 2004. Labor certifications weren't getting approved that fast in 2004.





I don't think this helps in your situation. If you have to file a new I-485 for each daughter because the old I-485 was ineligible when filed, that wouldn't be an unnecessary second filing; the second filing would be necessary because of the ineligibility of the old one.

Yes, our applications fall under EB-3. I have checked approved I-140 just now. We all are from India. My I-485 is filed by the attorney in Dec/2004. The same attorney has filed I-485s in Jun/2005 for all of my family members.

 

[Jackolantern]

Have you double checked the priority date? August 2004 doesn't make sense for an I-485 that was filed in December 2004, because that would require labor certification approval within 4 months, and back then labor certifications typically took over a year. It makes even less sense for a labor substitution case.

My guess is that August 2004 is when the labor substitution was requested, and the original labor certification was filed in 2002 or earlier, thereby giving you a priority date in 2002 or earlier.

 

[sarwarmd]

Have you double checked the priority date? August 2004 doesn't make sense for an I-485 that was filed in December 2004, because that would require labor certification approval within 4 months, and back then labor certifications typically took over a year. It makes even less sense for a labor substitution case.

My guess is that August 2004 is when the labor substitution was requested, and the original labor certification was filed in 2002 or earlier, thereby giving you a priority date in 2002 or earlier.

Before responding my earlier on this thread, I have checked the approved I-140 that the priority date is 08/17/2004. I remember that then labor had approval from State of Maine or New Hampshire and not from Maryland. However I am also trying to ascertain that labor dates are correct by obtaining a copy of the labor certification copy.

Today I had a correspendence with my attorney. He was simply interested in charging me for interfiling request at the rate of $800 per petition. I have already paid him $11,000=00 in 2005. I have already completed the task of inter filing. Now the issue is the validity of I-485.

I have asked him to provide a copy of Labor certification. Without giving any information, he is claiming that I-485s are submiited without any issues.

 

[Jackolantern]

Without giving any information, he is claiming that I-485s are submiited without any issues.

It's obviously true that no issues were encountered when they were submitted. But if the I-140 is EB3 India with a 2004 priority date, that is creating a big issue now.

You really do need to get your hands on a copy of the labor certification that was used for the I-140. I remain skeptical of the Aug 2004 priority date. If the I-140 says the priority date is Aug. 2004, that's probably a clerical error stemming from the labor substitution being requested in Aug 2004. When was the I-140 receipt date?

If the Aug. 2004 priority date is correct, that would indicate the occurrence of multiple unlikely events:
1. Labor certification approved within 4 months in 2004
2. Original employee abandons the process or is fired within that 4-month time frame, thus allowing you to use labor substitution
3. USCIS accepts your 3 derivative I-485s without current priority dates, then moves on to approve the green card and naturalization of one of those derivatives and doesn't notice any issue with the other two for more than 7 years

 

[sarwarmd]

It's obviously true that no issues were encountered when they were submitted. But if the I-140 is EB3 India with a 2004 priority date, that is creating a big issue now.

You really do need to get your hands on a copy of the labor certification that was used for the I-140. I remain skeptical of the Aug 2004 priority date. If the I-140 says the priority date is Aug. 2004, that's probably a clerical error stemming from the labor substitution being requested in Aug 2004.

I have already requested for a copy of labor. Some how I am feeling that there is a possibility that I-140s receipt date and priority dates are correct.

Receipt date of I-140 is 12/6/2004.

There is some possibility that company tried to get the labor approval from State of Maine and New Hampshire because labor approval is fast in those states in 2004. Since the same company had huge number of H1s, there is a possibility that some one has abandoned the labor because he/she has switched over to another labor of EB-2.

There is likelyhood that point number (3) is correct from your response.

 

[sarwarmd]

Attend InfoPass appointment or not!

I have an InfoPass appointment tomorrow i.e. on 01-03-2013. I am thinking whether to attend InfoPass appointment or skip by cancelling. I have 2 weeks before my naturalsation interview.
Thanks,

 

[TheRealCanadian]

Some how I am feeling that there is a possibility that I-140s receipt date and priority dates are correct.

I'd be shocked if the priority date was. It never was on my receipts; but peeking at my file at my interview indicated that they had the correct date.

I have an InfoPass appointment tomorrow i.e. on 01-03-2013. I am thinking whether to attend InfoPass appointment or skip by canceling.

I would attend; I would also see what USCIS thinks the priority date of the derivatives is, and whether the interview can be expedited.

 

[sarwarmd]

I'd be shocked if the priority date was. It never was on my receipts; but peeking at my file at my interview indicated that they had the correct date.



I would attend; I would also see what USCIS thinks the priority date of the derivatives is, and whether the interview can be expedited.

TheRealCanadian,
I would attend the appointment. That means, tonight I have to complete reading the citizenship book.
Thank you..

 

[sarwarmd]

InfoPass appointment attended

Hi,
Today i.e. on 01-03-2013, we attended InfoPass appointment. Before discussing with us, today's officer discussed wth the officer who interviewed all of my family members for the purpose of our childrens I-485s.

Officer said that our kids I-485s will be approved before our elder daughters turns 18. This is provided the petitions are approvable. If the petitions need to be rejected and denied, that is going to take time.

Officer also said that Child Protection Act will only the protect the status of Greencard and not for the purpose of citizenship.
I am thinking of filing I-485 and I-130s once I complete my naturalisation process on 01-15-2013. This is for both of our dautghters.

I think we need to complete both medical certificates and Police clearance certificates for both of our daughter's new I-485s. Where can I find the information on Police Clearance certificate forms or do we need to directly go to the police station for this purpose!
Thanks,

 

[Jackolantern]

I think we need to complete both medical certificates and Police clearance certificates for both of our daughter's new I-485s. Where can I find the information on Police Clearance certificate forms or do we need to directly go to the police station for this purpose!

Police clearance certificate is normally not needed for I-485. They will be fingerprinted at a USCIS office. USCIS will request the clearance certificate only if their fingerprints are unreadable, but that is very unlikely to happen because they're teenagers so the skin on their fingertips hasn't degraded yet.

Did you ask what the priority date is according to their records?

 

[sarwarmd]

Police clearance certificate is normally not needed for I-485. They will be fingerprinted at a USCIS office. USCIS will request the clearance certificate only if their fingerprints are unreadable, but that is very unlikely to happen because they're teenagers so the skin on their fingertips hasn't degraded yet.

Did you ask what the priority date is according to their records?

Jackolantern,
No I did not ask specifically the priority date on the date of receipt of our I-485s. I thought that state link's VISA bulletin for 06-2005 is accurate. Could that be different or difference scenario?

 

[Jackolantern]

Jackolantern,
No I did not ask specifically the priority date on the date of receipt of our I-485s. I thought that state link's VISA bulletin for 06-2005 is accurate. Could that be different or difference scenario?

That visa bulletin is accurate. However, TheRealCanadian and I believe the August 2004 priority date you told us in this thread is not accurate. The viability of their existing I-485s rests on that priority date, so finding out the true priority date should be a top priority for you.

I understand you're still trying to get a copy of the labor certification from the lawyer?

 

[sarwarmd]

That visa bulletin is accurate. However, TheRealCanadian and I believe the August 2004 priority date you told us in this thread is not accurate. The viability of their existing I-485s rests on that priority date, so finding out the true priority date should be a top priority for you.

I understand you're still trying to get a copy of the labor certification from the lawyer?

Jackolantern,
yes, I remember that. My attorney informed me that he does not have any documents related to labor and he has handed over all the documents to my old company. I do not work for the company who sponsored my visa. I got my GC in 2007 and the same company asked me to go in 2010 due to lack of projects.
Let me try to reach the same company on the phone and find the information to my best abilities.
Thanks,

 

[sarwarmd]

I-485s were filed using EB2 I-140 which is converted to EB3 in 2010

Hi,
Today I got an email reply from my old attorney.
In June-2005, my attorney applied I-485s based on EB2/India category. I see that India's EB2 was current in June-2005.

I am giving the information on my I-140s.

First I-140:
EB3
PD 8/17/2004
RD 12/6/2004
AD 7/12/2005

Second I-140
EB2 ( This I-140 is converted to EB3 in 2010 on some job description backgrounds )
PD 9/19/2005
RD 1/17/2006
AD 5/18/2006

Thanks,