India Dual Citizenship Mega Thread (Merged)

[venky_r2i]

applying for oci from Bangalore,India

I am pio with Canadian Cit now resident in Bangalore.
I would like to apply for oci.
Do I have to enclose a copy of my fro registration from Bangalore police
commissioner.
Do I have to enclose a copy of my cancelled immigration paper.(it is
mandatory if i had applied in Canada).
I would prefer to apply through Frro Chennai rather than through MHA
Delhi since it is easier to go to Chennai from here for U sticker and oci
booklet.I plan to send the application to chennai by registered post.
has anybody applied for oci through chennai
please share your expereince.

 

[HKSARdweller]

Canadian dual citizenship under review

Now Canada is reviewing its dual citizenship laws in light of the C$85million taxpayer money paid to evacuate about 12K citizens from Lebanon in the summer (of whom 7K have already gone back as they were living there, also having citizenship of Lebanon). Suppose Canada ruled to do away with it. Means OCI would then not be available to NRIs with Canadian citizenship. Right? Watching this space (though I do not think Canada will abolish it, despite some clamour from right wing).

 

[donlogan]

^But being an OCI does not constitute dual citizenship.

 

[harry2005]

^But being an OCI does not constitute dual citizenship.

Thats true. But OCI has this requirement that says 'host country should allow dual citizenship in some form or the other'. How its relevant to a lifelong visa you ask, I have no idea Sinister side of me thinks its a deliberate attempt to make people think that OCI is a dual citizenship in 'some form or the other'. But thats just my opinion.

 

[HKSARdweller]

donlogan is right, so is harry2005, on the sinister part too. The deliberate attempt was to fool NRIs into thinking that by offering lifelong visa but calling it overseas citizenship, GOI had fulfilled their promise of offering dual citizenship. A consequence of misuse of this "citizen" word in OCI is that it could create trouble for the NRI by placing such sticker on the passport of a country that does not recognize dual citizenship (Singapore being a case in point). So they said it would only be offered to citizens of countries that allowed dual citizenship. Much better if GOI had come clean and said they had some constitutional constraint in offering dual citizenship (provided that were true and not just laziness) and simply converted PIO into a lifelong visa uniformly for all NRIs with foreign citizenship (with all the privileges and exceptions attached to present OCI). But then they wouldn't have been able to hoodwink people about having fulfilled their dual citizenship promise, even if by obfuscatory use of the "C" word.

OCI is an advance on what there was before, but it could have been done more cleanly and without needless complication and contradiction.

 

[hipka]

All, I wanted to share this special email to me from FCCI:
------------------------------------------------
Dear Sir/Madam,


Dual Citizenship now a Reality
Dated: 23rd December 2004
An important and loudly cheered announcement made by the Prime Minister of India,
during the First Pravasi Bhratiya Divas, which was co-organized, by FICCI and
Ministry on January 9-11, 2003 of External Affairs is now a reality. Parliament today passed a Bill to grant dual citizenship to the People of Indian
origin belonging to 16 specified countries and gave an operational start to Diaspora's
productive engagement with India. The Citizenship (Amendment) Bill, 2003, would
"enable both Bharatvasis and Bharatvanshis to contribute together to the cause
of India's development", Deputy Prime Minister L K Advani said in the Lok Sabha,
The Bill, which amends the Citizenship Act, 1955, simplifies the procedure to
re-acquire Indian citizenship by adults who are children of Indian citizens and
former Indian citizens.
It provides for grant of overseas citizenship of India to PIOs belonging to 16
specified countries and Indian citizens who choose to acquire citizenship of
any of these countries at a later date. It also makes acquisition of Indian citizenship
and naturalisation more stringent, with safeguards against illegal migrants becoming
eligible for Indian citizenship.
Dual citizenship, the main concern of the Diaspora in developed countries, had
been a long-standing demand. It took an event like Pravasi Bharatiya Divas to
bring it to fruition. The Draft bill was introduced in Rajya Sabha on May 9th
2003 to amend the Citizenship Act, 1955, as a follow up to the announcement made
during the First Pravasi Bharatiya Divas, January 9-11, 2003.
· For those who have taken foreign passports, the grant of dual citizenship will
remove the obstacles in travel to and from India with no multiple visa requirements
· Persons of Indian origin settled in economically more advanced countries of
the world have skills and expertise in vital sectors. There is no doubt, that
investments are induced principally by the logic of business considerations and
the investment climate. The facility of Dual Citizenship would foster better
co-operation in these sectors by way of investments and transfer of skills and
resources.
· The principal rationale of the demand of the Diaspora for dual citizenship,
however, is sentimental and psychological. Desire of PIOs to forge emotional
and cultural bonds with their country of origin is quite evident in the amount
of Philanthropic activities done by them in India. Dual Citizenship shall strengthen
this bond and facilitate Diaspora's contribution in India's social Development.
· Dual Citizenship would also help to perpetuate and cement links of the younger
generation of the Diaspora with India as they may be keen to keep in touch with
their roots.
The first Pravasi Bharatiya Divas set in motion the gargantuan task of bringing
Indians from every corner of the globe under one roof and for the first time
created awareness about the achievements of the Great Indian Family. The second
Pravasi Bharatiya Divas will take this effort further and not only enhance the
belief and power that this family possesses. The Second Pravasi Bharatiya Divas
2004 will witness the fruition of the major announcements <http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/265146.cms>made
at the last event. Also in the offing are final announcements on the Gulf Insurance
Scheme and the amendments to the Foreign Contribution Act. It would provide a
renewed platform to take forward the collective task initiated in 2002 of bringing
together the Indian Diaspora <http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/332187.cms>and
leveraging the potential offered by the global Indian family.

FICCI on the basis of feedback from the delegates of first Pravasi Bharatiya
Divas has come to the conclusion that there has been a significant diplomatic
dividend considering that many eminent and influential NRIs/PIOs went back from
the event with positive thoughts about India. FICCI welcomes Government decision
to grant Dual citizenship and believes that it would create considerable goodwill
among Persons of Indian Origin (PIOs) and create a climate conducive to Diaspora's
better engagement with India.

Countries that have been granted Dual Citizenship:
1. USA
2. Canada
3. Britain
4. Netherlands
5. Italy
6. Ireland
7. Portugal
8. Switzerland
9. Greece
10. Cyprus
11. Israel
12. Australia
13. New Zealand
14. France
15. Sweden
16. Finland


(For specific queries on Dual Citizenship, kindly contact the nearest India Mission
or the Ministry of Home Affairs, Government of India (www.mha.nic.in <http://www.mha.nic.in>))


Regards,

Pravasi Bharatiya Divas Secretariat
FICCI
Federation House
Tansen Marg
New Delhi
Ph: 00 911123317462, 23738760-70
e-mail: indiaday@indiaday.org
indiandiaspora@ficci.com

Looking at this announcement from 2003, it looks like GOI never promised dual nationality. They always refered to it as 'citizenship' in the hope that it would be confused with nationality.

 

[HKSARdweller]

hipka, can you explain what the difference might have been had they used the word 'nationality' throughout instead of 'citizenship'? In many countries the two are the same (e.g. Irish law). In the US all citizens are nationals, but there may be a fringe group (born in outlying possession of the US - American Samoa and Swains Island) who are nationals but not citizens. But for all practical purposes the two are referred to interchangeable and it's more commonly referred to in the English speaking world as dual citizenship. What's the difference - especially in the context of Indian law?

 

[Rahul Kumar]

Does anyone have phone numbers to CGI Houston that someone actually picks up?

 

[ayimar]

Australian Citizenship and Indian Passport

After reading this (http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/2005/01/18/stories/2005011800060800.htm) article I have two questions,

1. Do I loose the Indian Passport soon after getting Australian Citizenship?

2. If I do loose it and get an OCI card/label, can I reclaim the Indian Passport and Nationality after 5 years, and still keep the Australian Passport?

Thanks, ayimar

 

[harry2005]

After reading this (http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/2005/01/18/stories/2005011800060800.htm) article I have two questions,

1. Do I loose the Indian Passport soon after getting Australian Citizenship?

Yes, you lose Indian Citizenship and your Indian passport becomes invalid. Do not use it after you become citizen of another country.

2. If I do loose it and get an OCI card/label, can I reclaim the Indian Passport and Nationality after 5 years, and still keep the Australian Passport?

Thanks, ayimar

No. After 5 years on OCI, you can get Indian citizenship, but you will have to renounce your Australian citizenship. You cannot keep both.

 

[ckforum]

There are lots of interesting issues being discussed in these form. One question that no body has asked is about the citizenship of child born in India to Oveseas Citzen of India.

The information on the website of ministry of home affair states that to acquire Indian citizenship by birth at least one of the parents has to be citizen of India. I do not beleive this includes oveseas citizen.

The Indian consulate in San Francisco does not seem to know about this. When inquired about the citzenship of child born in India, I was told that the child born in India gets Indian citizenship/ passport even if the parents are not Indian citizens. But upon pointing the consulate person to the website, he responded - "I do not know".

In general the the knowledge of staff at Indian consultes seems to be incomplete and inacurate. The various application forms also do not clarify the requirement and ask the questions which would be consistent with the law.

 

[tamtom]

There are lots of interesting issues being discussed in these form. One question that no body has asked is about the citizenship of child born in India to Oveseas Citzen of India.

Child of an Overseas Citizen of India is eligible to apply for Overseas Citizenship of India. If neither parent is a full citizen of India, the child won't be eligible for full citizenship.

Birth in India does not change it.

Hope this helps,

Tamtom

 

[djabu]

anyways of retreiving part a and part b after completing Part A online? i've forgotten to fotocopy the application before filling. also if not possible, then is it ok if i redo part A online again?

 

[Notdualatall]

So see my solution to fake dualcitizenship

HKSARdweller, good point about reason behind this permanent visa only being honered by nations accepting Duall citizenship - because of the India's abuse of the word Citizenship in this fool you twice scheme.


Please see a great thread I started on this site.

http://www.immigrationportal.com/showthread.php?t=262372

called : True Dual Citizenship, lets all lobby for this!

BTW I fould this mega thread by Googling it, I could not find this mega thread from the homepage of this site. It did not show up under "ImmigrationPortal Forums > After The Green Card And US Citizenship > Overseas Citizenship of India (OCI) Issues "

 

[Notdualatall]

Please see the section on "Acquisition" of Indian Citizenship at the Ministry of Home Affairs, India at:

http://www.mha.nic.in/citi.htm

The procedure stipulates, among other requirements:

"The applicant is then required to furnish through the State Government, a certificate of the renunciation of his foreign citizenship issued by the mission of the concerned country ..."

-x-

Per the US State Department:

http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_776.html

"A person wishing to renounce his or her U.S. citizenship must voluntarily and with intent to relinquish U.S. citizenship:

1. appear in person before a U.S. consular or diplomatic officer,
2. in a foreign country (normally at a U.S. Embassy or Consulate); and
3. sign an oath of renunciation

Renunciations that do not meet the conditions described above have no legal effect. Because of the provisions of section 349(a)(5), Americans cannot effectively renounce their citizenship by mail, through an agent, or while in the United States. In fact, U.S. courts have held certain attempts to renounce U.S. citizenship to be ineffective on a variety of grounds, as discussed below."

-x-

Clearly, a US consulate will not provide the certification required by the Indian authorities unless a renunciation as required by US law is executed.

Therefore, a loop-hole does not exist whereby, presently, one can hold both US and Indian citizenship.

Why would anybody renounce USA citizenship just to get a Indian Citizenship?

In USA you can say anything bad or worse about USA, and nobody is going to Blacklist you. But please note the Indian Law for OCi clearly states that if you bad mouth India (aka Indian Constitution code word used) you will be Blacklisted.

Wow they will Blacklist you so everyone who want's to get a OCI visa sticker, be prepared to surrender freedom of Speech granted by USA law!

Also you can't g to protected/restricted areas! AKA no freedom of movement within India, only where they allow you to go. Humm I love USA, I can go anywhere I want!

 

[harry2005]

But please note the Indian Law for OCi clearly states that if you bad mouth India (aka Indian Constitution code word used) you will be Blacklisted.

Pardon my ignorance, but what does it mean 'blacklisted'? Where in Indian law it says you will be blacklisted (whatever that means) for bad mouthing India? Any reference?

 

[vaippatel]

about OCI

I just applied to get US passport. In the meantime, can I go ahead and send OCI application, since it does not require passport until the application is approved.

 

[wivnmgm]

I just applied to get US passport. In the meantime, can I go ahead and send OCI application, since it does not require passport until the application is approved.

You will have to wait until you receive your US passport. The OCI application form REQUIRES your passport information to be filled in, viz.: Passport Number, Issue Date and Issue Place.

 

[varunboriah]

Is OCI really 'dual citizenship'

Hi

I am applying for a job in the US that requires me to hold only a US citizenship and no form of dual citizenship. I have read a lot of threads abt OCI not being 'dual citizenship' per se. Can anyone point me to some documentation i can use to corroborate my stand?

 

[nkm-oct23]

This is an extract from state department's website:

Dual Nationality: In 2006, India launched the "Overseas Citizens of India" (OCI) program, which has often been mischaracterized as a dual nationality program, as it does not grant Indian citizenship. Thus, an American who obtains an OCI card is not a citizen of India and remains a citizen of the United States. An OCI card in reality is similar to a U.S. "green card" in that a holder can travel to and from India indefinitely, work in India, study in India, and own property in India (except for certain agricultural and plantation properties). An OCI holder, however, does not receive an Indian passport, cannot vote in Indian elections and is not eligible for Indian government employment. The OCI program is similar to the Persons of Indian Origin (PIO) card introduced by the Indian government several years ago, except that PIO holders must still register with Indian immigration authorities, and PIO cards are not issued for an indefinite period. American citizens of Indian descent can apply for PIO or OCI cards at the Indian Embassy in Washington, or at the Indian Consulates in Chicago, New York, San Francisco and Houston. Inside India, American citizens can apply at the nearest FRRO office (please see “Entry/Exit Requirements” section above for more information on the FRRO).