India Dual Citizenship Mega Thread (Merged)

[boggavarapu]

Used up all your lifelines, but no answer! Many more questions left, such as is OCI constitutional, what rights do you have?... is it possible to live in India for a while without a ration card? And when DC does come, what happens to OCI/PIO holders! The game is rigged - you can't win!

At this stage, I think a PIO can have certain privileges rather than rights through OCI status. PIO card is expected to be gradually phased away.

When DC comes into effect in future, my guess is that OCI will be phased out as well. Really PIO card and OCI Registration are a kind of milestones for Indian Dual Citizenship!!

 

[satchitanand]

some more updates

with the pravasi diwas going on some more websites on OCI

http://pib.nic.in/release/release.asp?relid=14634

http://www.pbd2006.org/pbd2006.asp

 

[Magician]

with the pravasi diwas going on some more websites on OCI

http://pib.nic.in/release/release.asp?relid=14634

http://www.pbd2006.org/pbd2006.asp

Check this out http://www.indialiaison.com/faq.htm

29. Can a person registered as OCI be granted Indian citizenship?

Yes. As per the provisions of section 5(1)(g) of the citizenship Act, 1955, a person who is registered as OCI for 5 years and residing in India for 1 Year out of the above 5 Years, is eligible to apply for Indian citizenship.

Question is when person acquires Indian citizenship after 5 years again can he/she maintain the US citizenship too?

 

[PIO1]

Check this out http://www.indialiaison.com/faq.htm

29. Can a person registered as OCI be granted Indian citizenship?

Yes. As per the provisions of section 5(1)(g) of the citizenship Act, 1955, a person who is registered as OCI for 5 years and residing in India for 1 Year out of the above 5 Years, is eligible to apply for Indian citizenship.

Question is when person acquires Indian citizenship after 5 years again can he/she maintain the US citizenship too?

This was raised in a previous post. #570

Whether you are naturalised after 1 year or 5 years, the current and proposed process is that you must renounce all citizenships. Your non Indian passport(s) will be confiscated. So there is no dual citizenship. This is unchanged since 1955, as per the

Citizenship Act, Section 6(1), Schedule III: Qualifications for Naturalisation:
(b) that, if he is a citizen of any country he has renounced the citizenship of that country in accordance with the law therein in force in that behalf and has notified such renunciation to the Central Government;

[There is a potential loophole, that is not recognised by the Govt of India, that may require you going to the Supreme Court, but currently, you can be arrested and charged if you hold another passport along with your Indian one, so not recommended. see post #625]

 

[PIO1]

OCI not the first

Guess what! OCI is not the first non citizen to be described in the Citizenship Act

There is another type of citizen:

Citizenship Act 1955

Definition of the word citizen:
2(1)(b) "citizen" in relation to a country specified in Schedule I, means a person who, under the citizenship or nationality law for the time being in force in that country, is a citizen or national of that country;

11. Commonwealth citizenship
Every person who is a citizen of a Commonwealth country specified in Schedule I shall, by virtue of that citizenship, have the status of a Commonwealth citizen of India.
Schedule I

A. The following Commonwealth countries:
1. United Kingdom
2. Canada
3. Commonwealth of Australia
4. New Zealand
5. Union of South Africa
6. Pakistan
7. Ceylon
8. Federation of Rhodesia and Nyasaland
9. Ghana
10. Federation of Malaya
11. Singapore
B. The Republic of Ireland
Explanation: In this Schedule, "United Kingdom" means the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and includes the Channel Islands, the Isle of Man and all Colonies; and "Commonwealth of Australia" includes the territories of Papua and the territory of Norfolk Island.

The 5 year residency for these people is waived!!! So it may be better than OCI!

What I thought was amazing is that you would think "citizen" is a citizen of India. Wrong! A citizen is actually someone who is not a citizen of India but a citizen of the Commonwealth countries, excluding India!

Anyway, Commonwelth citizens have been treated like foreigners, and have required visas, so if you thought OCI was a type of citizenship, this precedence should confirm that just because a new citizenship category is mentioned in the Citizenship Act, does not make it a citizenship. In fact, it confirms it to be a foriegn status.

 

[mangal969]

Wow PIO1 you seem to be burning the midnight oil on OCI...wish our bureaucrats were half as dedicated as you...not the midnight oil but i would expect them to burn the 9 to 5 oil
Youre post certainly clarifies that OCI cannot be considered a dual citizenship by virtue of it being in the citizenship act.
Checked up the Commonwealth citizen of India-Not much in rights and priviliges.But i was wondering -As descendents of Commonwealth citizens can we claim UK or Canadian citizenship ?(He he he....)

 

[PIO1]

Wow PIO1 you seem to be burning the midnight oil on OCI...wish our bureaucrats were half as dedicated as you...not the midnight oil but i would expect them to burn the 9 to 5 oil
Youre post certainly clarifies that OCI cannot be considered a dual citizenship by virtue of it being in the citizenship act.
Checked up the Commonwealth citizen of India-Not much in rights and priviliges.But i was wondering -As descendents of Commonwealth citizens can we claim UK or Canadian citizenship ?(He he he....)

You know, being the avid amature Indian citizenship lawyer I am, I was thinking about this. You know, as technically the Citizenship Act defines "citizenship" as someone who is a citizen of schedule I countries and excludes India... here is how to become PM of India, in 5 easy steps:

1) Secretly become a citizen of Rhodesia (Zimbabwe) or some such country, even Pakistan through marriage or other involuntary means but do not apply for a passport or registration.

2) Run for parliament (nominate) for a single seat - you do not need to get more than a couple of votes.

3) After nominations close, but before the election, declare that all candidates are invalid, as they are not "citizens" as per the citizenship act. Send a memorandum to the Electoral Commissioner, and follow it up with a high court/supreme court writ. A citizen is someone who is a citizen of a schedule I country - guess what? You are the only one. Parliament is disolved for the national elections so no amendment can be passed. You will be elected by at least one vote, and once you win election no court in India can challenge your position. This is guaranteed by the consititution (aka Lalu Prasad Yadav provision).

4) Declare yourself Prime Minister as the only member of the Lower House.

5) Spend a few days enjoying the stately life at 7 Race Course Road as the military organises a Coup D'Etat.

[Attention Bollywood producers: I have an extended version of this similar to the movie Johnny English (where the bad guy becomes King of the United Kingdom) - please send request for screen play to PIO1@NextPMofIndia.com]

 

[mangal969]

Whoa PIO1 i think you're jumping the gun here....
Look at the text...It is defining a citizen as related to schedule 1 countries ! !So basically all that statement does is put india's interpretation of who is a citizen of a schedule 1 country.
Subsequent clauses 3,4 etc define a citizen of India

(3)every person born in India,-
(a) on or after the 26th day of January, 1950, but before the commencement of the Citizenship (Amendment) Act, 1986;
(b) on or after such commencement and either of whose parents is a citizen of India at the time of his birth,
shall be a citizen of India by birth.

So I am afraid the election commision and the courts would throw out your writ faster than you can have your furniture transferred to 7 Race Course Road !

I think the embassies in the US are going to start processing after 7th Jan and they wont accept applications until they "dispose" of the 2004 applications.SO that means US embassies will accept the new apps sometime in Feb.I am just judging this by the fact that no one in the US (as far as my knowledge goes) has heard anything about the status of their apps and 50% of US embassies havent even updated their website yet.

Most shameful,most annoying,most incompetent.

 

[mangal969]

Good news !
The government is "actively considering" voting rights for OCI's

It was in a Hindustan Times news article and i'm not posting a link because the direct links dont work.Go to the HT website and read it.It's in the article where British Indians can 'finally' get 'dual citizenship'

Maybe OCI will eventually evolve into a Dual Citizenship after all

 

[sg_orl]

I have seen the news stories where the bureaucrats talk about giving the voting rights to the NRIs (i.e. people settle abroad with Indian passport). Never heard about the talk to give voting rights to OCI. That will be a day...It proves that these guys just want to make $$ and keep themsleves busy with this kind of paperwork....incrementalism at best.

Mangal - Can you either post the link or the section on the hindustantimes.com website where this story appeared?

Thanks.

 

[PIO1]

I have seen the news stories where the bureaucrats talk about giving the voting rights to the NRIs (i.e. people settle abroad with Indian passport). Never heard about the talk to give voting rights to OCI. That will be a day...It proves that these guys just want to make $$ and keep themsleves busy with this kind of paperwork....incrementalism at best.

Mangal - Can you either post the link or the section on the hindustantimes.com website where this story appeared?

Thanks.

Reuters has finally got an accurate article on OCI, which is feeding all the other news publishers:

http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/new..._KRA057525_RTRUKOC_0_UK-INDIA-CITIZENSHIP.xml

India's constitution does not provide for dual nationality, but due to longstanding demands by the Indians in the diaspora, the government has introduced a new 'overseas citizenship of India' (OCI) scheme to accommodate them.

The article that Mangal refers to is http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/5983_1584359,00430005.htm

This article is based on a previous one - and can be largely discredited it has that old statement

"The OCI offers tangible privileges and benefits that exceed those under the Persons of Indian Origin (PIO) scheme.

The fundamental difference is that the OCI has its basis in the Citizenship Act, which has been specifically amended for this purpose."

Yes OCI is in the citizenship act. But so is Commonwealth Citizen of India (CCI). Try telling anyone you are a CCI. This means nothing. If you don't have a visa and don't have a foreign passport, they will throw you out like any foreigner. No rights.

This was in a previous article. The journalist has just stuck a few bits of newsfeeds together without thinking and has actually misquoted the original context.

Another article which seems to have been used by HT mentions NRI voting rights, along with OCI. My guess is this is a case of chinese wispers. "Issuing OCI + Voting rights for NRI" = "Voting rights for OCI". Bad journalism. I have written to HT. I can't believe they have such shoddy research.

Whoa PIO1 i think you're jumping the gun here....
Look at the text...It is defining a citizen as related to schedule 1 countries ! !So basically all that statement does is put india's interpretation of who is a citizen of a schedule 1 country.
Subsequent clauses 3,4 etc define a citizen of India

Clause 3/4 etc tells some methods HOW to become a citizen, only 2(b)(c) defines it! - where else is "citizen" defined? Sure it is in the context of Schedule 1 countries, but then this is the default context "unless the context otherwise requires" as per the act! So a "Citizen" or "(Commonwealth) Citizen of India" in Indian law is a citizen of Schedule 1 countries aka "Commonwealth Citizen of India", unless specifically stated otherwise. Guess what? No other legislation would specically state otherwise. It is the end of year (silly season), and I was only having some fun. In practice interpretation will be made in favour of common sense. But I still think it is a good movie idea, so my offer to Bollywood producers is still open

 

[mangal969]

More than chinese whispers i think it is a case of poor dissemniation of information.Not even the ministers and officials (let alone the public) know the difference between OIC,PIO,DC and NRI.They just all spell 'foreigner' to them.

Another example of poor dissemination is the fact that 1/2 of the embassies dont know anything about OIC,and the scheme went operational 28 days ago.

 

[PIO1]

More than chinese whispers i think it is a case of poor dissemniation of information.Not even the ministers and officials (let alone the public) know the difference between OIC,PIO,DC and NRI.They just all spell 'foreigner' to them.

Another example of poor dissemination is the fact that 1/2 of the embassies dont know anything about OIC,and the scheme went operational 28 days ago.

The Scheme will be operational 15 days before the first "real" OCI is issued. By real, we can exclude the song and dance at the PBD.

No wonder there is confusion.

Here are all the different types of citizens, just to name a few:

Resident Citizen of India (CoI)
Non-Resident citizen of India (NRI)
Commonwealth citizen of India (CCI)
Overseas citizen of India (OCI)
Foreigner
Foreigner with Long term visa (special rights)
Foreigner of Indian origin (unregistered PIO)
Person of Indian origin (registered PIO)
Dual Citizen

 

[boggavarapu]

OCI Implementation

I understand that earlier applications will be dealt with in the first place (beginning first week of January 2006 post PBD).

I am one of those unfortunate PIO card holders who applied for OIC during Nov.2004 and paid the full fee of $275.00. At that time, I have also submitted a copy of my PIO Card). Now, I should be eligible for a refund of $250.00 as per the final regulations related to the fee for OIC
in the case of existing PIO card holder.

In this regard, I have sent e-mails to GOI (Secretary and the new Minister of MOIA and the PM's office) and the Consulate in the USA to make sure that they are aware of the scenario and agree for the refund when they start disposing the old applications. I had no reply whatsoever! I wonder if they will really consider to issue the refund!!

I will be eligible for refund for four OIC applications (including three family members) altogether ($1000)!!

Is there anything else I can do at this stage? Any suggestions will be highly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

[PIO1]

Is there anything else I can do at this stage? Any suggestions will be highly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Another option is to withdraw your application and lose $25. Even then will you be guaranteed a refund? Who knows?

I would call them, and visit them face to face if you can. It's worth $1000. Even after they issue it without refund keep on pushing for it.

They should give it back. Then again there are a lot of things they "should" have done with this OCI fiasco

The other thing that gets me is that for kids (and this was mentioned before), you need only pay $155 for a child's PIO and upgrade for $25. A saving of almost $100 - money I have most certainly lost. Now that it is done I'm not going to penny pinch. They should charge less than $180 for a child's OCI - for one it would save them paper work.

When it really comes down to it, They should not be charging more than a nominal fee for OCI. Visas, citizenship and other government services are not for making revenue - that's what taxes are for. When some consulates such as South Africa are charging 2x the US$ price, it is even more ridiculous.

 

[PIO1]

Ignoring Correspondence

One consistant thing that has been coming out of all our communication is how the consulates and government continue to ignore e-mails.

I have written letters as well. They are constructive and genuine in nature. Out of 100, I would have about 5 replies.

As far as I am concerned, if you are a public servant, and you are unable to respond to letters from the public you should step aside and allow one of the millions of young and educated unemplyed to take your job with far greater enthusiasm. Interesting how they have stopped OCIs from being allowed to take their jobs!

Happy New Year everyone! 2006: The year of OCI???

 

[mangal969]

I understand that earlier applications will be dealt with in the first place (beginning first week of January 2006 post PBD).

I am one of those unfortunate PIO card holders who applied for OIC during Nov.2004 and paid the full fee of $275.00. At that time, I have also submitted a copy of my PIO Card). Now, I should be eligible for a refund of $250.00 as per the final regulations related to the fee for OIC
in the case of existing PIO card holder.

In this regard, I have sent e-mails to GOI (Secretary and the new Minister of MOIA and the PM's office) and the Consulate in the USA to make sure that they are aware of the scenario and agree for the refund when they start disposing the old applications. I had no reply whatsoever! I wonder if they will really consider to issue the refund!!

I will be eligible for refund for four OIC applications (including three family members) altogether ($1000)!!

Is there anything else I can do at this stage? Any suggestions will be highly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Best thing to do is wait until they say something.
When the procedure opens up go and give them a letter saying you want a refund because as per the new rules you have to pay $100 while you have already paid $275x4 (i'm poor in maths ).
But after they announce the procedure open.Till then i doubt even they know what they have to do .....

 

[mangal969]

Wishing all the forum members a Happy 2006 !
I sincerely hope the GoI acts better in this year than it did in the last

 

[mangal969]

Got some news and it doesn't look promising.....


Overseas Citizenship card is here
Sajeda Momin
Saturday, December 31, 2005
LONDON: The long-delayed Overseas Citizenship of India (OCI) card, which would give foreigners of Indian origin parity with their country cousins on most things except voting rights, seeking elected office and holding government posts is almost within grasp.

The former BJP government had promised to implement OCI cards at the beginning of their term, but the modalities could not be finalised before they were voted out. Then came the turn of the UPA who also agreed with it in theory, but putting it into practice seemed to be difficult.

Finally, from 2 December, two-part online application forms are available on the Internet, but Indian Missions abroad have not yet been given the go ahead to accept the completed forms.

“It should happen soon because Prime Minister Manmohan Singh himself is very keen and there is a lot of pressure from the PMO, but we have not got the administrative modalities in place yet,” said a diplomat.

It has already been announced on the High Commission's website that the first of the coveted OCI cards will be handed over at the fourth Pravasi Bharatiya Divas to be held in Hyderabad from January 7 to 9 by the Prime Minister himself. The OCI card will come in the shape of a pale-blue passport-like document but it cannot be used as a travel document for any other country besides India.

Even for India along with an OCI, a life-long, multiple entry visa will be pasted into the applicant's foreign passport.

The added bonus for OCI cardholders will be that they can come and go from India at will, without visas and stay for as long as they want without having to report to the police at the Foreigner Registration Offices.

No administrative modalities ???!!!!! What the heck were they doing from Sept 1 to date ?????
This government has to be amongst the sloppiest India has ever seen ! Either they dont work at all or they are full of irresponsible people trying to show off their intelligence.

Article :http://dnaindia.com/report.asp?NewsID=1004957&CatID=9

 

[mangal969]

There are some consulates (like Sydney) that are already accepting OCI apps.So what administrative modalities are to be worked out ?

Sloppy......Sloppy.....Sloppy