India Dual Citizenship Mega Thread (Merged)

[qwert97]

Ways of India

I was thinking more along the lines of taking up a collection and sending in an offer. So much money for this result.

Seriously, though, I'm personally somewhat ambivalent about this whole dual citizenship thing. About 12 years ago, my two small children and I were almost deported from Delhi for a minor date problem with our tourist visas, which was entirely the fault of the consulate in Toronto. I noticed the problem before I left, and asked the consulate to correct it. They refused, and pooh-poohed the issue. At the airport in Delhi, we were singled out, threatened with deportation, and detained for quite a while after all the other passengers were long gone. They acted like I'd got a visa not from an Indian consulate, but from some other country. Finally, we were given 24-hour visas to allow us to go to the FRRO on Ring Road, to get fresh visas all over again, which I did.

My experience there, plus others I've had while in India, frankly make my stomach turn at the thought of going there again. I've only been there once since then, because I had to. Life is too short to put up with crap. But I can't deny my origins totally. I keep wondering whether they've changed over there, which is why I visit this board. It would appear that they haven't.

That was naive on your part to visit FRRO office in ring road. You could have just slipped a couple of bills in the passport and he would not have noticed anything.

 

[enjoylife]

Confirmation requested

I am from India and I got my US citizenship a few months ago. I just want to re-confirm my understanding of PIO vs OIC. Since OIC does not seem to be happening any time soon would taking a PIO card allow me to get property transferred from my father to my name and hold it indefinitely?

I think I won't be able to hold the property in my name but I just want to make sure my think is correct.

I am also debating whether it will be worth it to spend money to get the PIO card or apply for a 10 yr Indian visa as it costs less. The reason I am interested in the PIO or OIC is to get the property transferred in my name.

Thanks in advance.

 

[mangal969]

I am from India and I got my US citizenship a few months ago. I just want to re-confirm my understanding of PIO vs OIC. Since OIC does not seem to be happening any time soon would taking a PIO card allow me to get property transferred from my father to my name and hold it indefinitely?

I think I won't be able to hold the property in my name but I just want to make sure my think is correct.

I am also debating whether it will be worth it to spend money to get the PIO card or apply for a 10 yr Indian visa as it costs less. The reason I am interested in the PIO or OIC is to get the property transferred in my name.

Thanks in advance.

OIC has officially started.I would think that within 60 days people will start getting their certificates.
PIO will allow for transfer but as my understanding goes that will be valid as long as your PIO card is valid.With OIC you can hold it indefinitely.If you have property OIC is the best way to go.Cost wise too OIC is the best cause you have to pay once in your life

With only the visa you will not be recognised as a PIO so then trying to transfer has it's own set of problems.

My info may be faulty but bottom line the best way to go is the OIC unless there is a pressing need to have the property transferred immediately.

 

[sg_orl]

CGI Houston has OCI Information, Finally!

Finally, CGI Houston has updated OCI Information on their website:

http://www.cgihouston.org/OverseasCitizenship.html

It's funny thet are also claiming that OCI is operational from December 2, 2005! But please don't submit any applications until we announce the date of acceptance of new OCI applications. It will 42 working days for them to process an OCI application.

Basically, when we're ready to accept your applications, then apply and be very patient because we still don't have our act together!

 

[Hotdiggety]

Whatever happens, don't be first in line for this. Let them work the kinks out of the system. When you hear of some other people who've got their visas, and they seem happy with the experience, then and only then should you apply. Don't be a guinea-pig for them to experiment on.

 

[qwert97]

Oci

Finally, CGI Houston has updated OCI Information on their website:

http://www.cgihouston.org/OverseasCitizenship.html

It's funny thet are also claiming that OCI is operational from December 2, 2005! But please don't submit any applications until we announce the date of acceptance of new OCI applications. It will 42 working days for them to process an OCI application.

Basically, when we're ready to accept your applications, then apply and be very patient because we still don't have our act together!

I think the logic for this is pretty clear. They first want to dispose off the already received applications (which were received in Dec 04/Jan 05) so from that perspective the scheme is operational but they are not going to receive new applications until a specified date. I think that is the right thing to do otherwise they will mix the new applications with the old ones and the embassy wants to first dispose off the old applications. Makes sense to me.

 

[PIO1]

So OCI has been operational, and they are just waiting to issue the certificates??? In US etc when you get naturalised, they first send you a letter saying "congratulations ... please come to a swearing in ceremony ..."

If all the OCIs have been processed, can't they contact us and tell us that they have our applications, they have bee approved, we are just waiting for for the green light to issue certificates? Maybe even organise a small ceremony or appointment after 9 January at the consulates?

 

[PIO1]

I said some bad things about the PIO University, that I should probably retract ...

I spoke to a Malaysian of Indian origin. Turns out University places in Malaysia tend to be reserved for ethnic Malays - so they have nowhere to go except abroad.

The PM is in Malaysia and some PIOs must have have raised this issue.

So ... well done PM. Good luck in making this work.

 

[enjoylife]

OIC has officially started.I would think that within 60 days people will start getting their certificates.
PIO will allow for transfer but as my understanding goes that will be valid as long as your PIO card is valid.With OIC you can hold it indefinitely.If you have property OIC is the best way to go.Cost wise too OIC is the best cause you have to pay once in your life

With only the visa you will not be recognised as a PIO so then trying to transfer has it's own set of problems.

My info may be faulty but bottom line the best way to go is the OIC unless there is a pressing need to have the property transferred immediately.

Thanks for the prompt reply. There is no pressing need to transfer property immediately but I have plans to go to India sometime after Feb 7, 2006 and based on what others have replied on this thread it seems unlikely that I will get my OIC by feb 2006 from cgi houston. I was hoping I could save money applying for a visa and get a card that would help me get the property transferred sometime in 2006 or 2007 in my name. Since I have to go to India in feb 2006 what kind of visa (how many year validity do you recommend I get) of would I be better of cost wise to take a PIO ?

Thanks.

 

[PIO1]

I think 6 months for $60 is the best option for adults because you can get it almost immediately (Apply for OCI when it goes live). Total Cost = $335.


For US citizens:

PIO + OCI upgrade ($25) = $335
OCI = $275
5/10 years visa = $150

 

[enjoylife]

I think 6 months for $60 is the best option for adults because you can get it almost immediately (Apply for OCI when it goes live). Total Cost = $335.


For US citizens:

PIO + OCI upgrade ($25) = $335
OCI = $275
5/10 years visa = $150

PIO1,
What do you mean 6 months for $60? I couldn't quite understand.
Thanks.

 

[mangal969]

PIO1,
What do you mean 6 months for $60? I couldn't quite understand.
Thanks.

He means a 6 month visa for $60

If you apply for the OIC as soon as it opens and keep your trip for Late February to early March,I'm sure you will be able to go on an OIC.I dont expect the embassies here to start accepting forms later than the 6th of Jan after the PM gives the first OIC card out.

If you're schedule is fixed go for the 6 month visa and then apply for OIC later.But if you really want to transfer your property on this trip, it might save you money to go on your OIC.

 

[mangal969]

I read the announcement from CGI HOuston.They have done the first thing that has actually made sense in this whole fiasco.Completing the old applications I think is a good move.Would keep the process rolling without any stick ups once they start accepting fresh applications.
I think it would make sense for all the old applicants in houston to check with the embassy at this stage.
A small joke here : I hope the embassy doesnt mean shredding of forms when they say they will dispose of the old applications (PJ I Know)
Surprisingly the embassy at Washington is quiet.Arent they the 'head honco' of embassies in the US ?Shouldnt they have information first ?
Sadly New York has nothing new as well

 

[PIO1]

I remember this weird conversation with a Indian Foreign Service officer on Dual Citizenship at a dinner party years ago

Visitor: So India is giving dual citizenship.
Me: Sounds good, I want to apply ... this is full citizenship is it?
Visitor: Yes there are some restrictions, you can't vote, you can't hold some property...
Me: You can't vote? What if you were to move back to India?
Visitor: You still can't vote - because you are a dual citizen.
Me: But I will be a dual citizen of this country also, and will be allowed to vote here.
Visitor: Because you are a citizen of a foreign country, this is why you can't vote in India.
Me: So its not really dual citizenship then?
Visitor: It is dual citizenship, it is not citizenship.
Me: But dual citizenship is full citizenship - of two countries
Visitor: Yes
Me: So you should have all the rights of both countries?
Visitor: But if you are a citizen of a foreign country you can not have all the rights of a citizen of India...

By this time everyone in the room was staring at me as if I was an Idiot - and I was beginning to think I had missed something.

I am discovering that the concept of dual citizenship is such a paradigm shift in thinking, that this is why we have it, but don't!

 

[Hotdiggety]

India may have become independent of the British in 1947, but it didn't become free in the sense that Americans understand freedom. Rather than bringing freedom down to the level of the individual Indian citizen, the new government, in their rush towards Fabian socialism, actually made us much less free than we were before. They imposed an economic strait-jacket on what was once a pretty free-wheeling economy, and allowed the bureaucracy to run rampant in controlling us in unprecedented ways. At one point, you couldn't even buy an international air-ticket without their permission (remember the P-form), and I won't even go into the all the exchange, import, and production controls they instituted.

Independent India has never had much desire to just leave its citizens alone, to lead their lives as they see fit. The government has legions of employees who make it their business to interfere in your life for no particular reason, other than that they want to. That's really at the heart of why we haven't been given full dual-citizenship. They can't bring themselves to stop interfering in people's lives. It also explains the tortured logic used to justify the situation to PIO1.

 

[mangal969]

India has it's faults there is no denying that.But what is also not deniable is the pull India has on the heart strings,which is partly i guess the reson we are all here and checking this forum day in and day out
But that discussion diverts attention away from the reason the forum was created-to discuss Dual (that has now morphed into Overseas Indian) citizenship.Unfortunately right now the situation is what it is and it is going to be that way until the bureaucracy gets it's act together.Unfortunately the system is what it is.We can change the system,but that isnt going to happen overnight

 

[PIO1]

Agree with Mangal969 and Hotdiggety. This forum entitled "India Dual Citizenship ..." can be summarised in three words "no such thing".

Having said that I think we all share a common thought, a connection with a land and people we love, but have been forced to leave for various reasons. And it is interesting to have a slight deviation. My wife was watching Z-TV today - there was a singing competition - it was interesting to see all the new talent and creativity. Years ago, unless you were Lata Mangeshkar or related to her you could not sing in a movie. You could buy any car as long as it was an Ambassador or Fiat.

Times are changing slowly. The consesus today is the "protectionism" policies have all backfired, and today we find our motherland behind communist China. Anyway, I think PIOs have a lot to offer India in taking her forward.

 

[enjoylife]

He means a 6 month visa for $60

If you apply for the OIC as soon as it opens and keep your trip for Late February to early March,I'm sure you will be able to go on an OIC.I dont expect the embassies here to start accepting forms later than the 6th of Jan after the PM gives the first OIC card out.

If you're schedule is fixed go for the 6 month visa and then apply for OIC later.But if you really want to transfer your property on this trip, it might save you money to go on your OIC.

There is no rush to get the property transferred in my name. I can get it done in the next year or two but I just want to make sure I will be able to do that with the OIC. (btw do I have to be present physically in India to get the property transferred or it can be done even if I am physically in the US?)

My trip will be around 7 or 14 feb to 27 feb. I can not postpone it. I will apply for OIC as soon as it opens up but the vice consul in houston said he was not sure when it will start and how long it will take to get it. Keep in mind there are people who applied earlier that have to be given the OIC first.

 

[basis]

Parliament to discuss Ganguly's ouster
New Delhi: The decision to drop Sourav Ganguly from the third Test against Sri Lanka is now taking on political overtones. The issue will be discussed in parliament.

www.ndtv.com

Uproar over Ganguly's sacking gains momentum


Friday, 16 December , 2005, 20:36

New Delhi: Already reeling under attack, the BCCI on Friday came in for flak from some of its own members as the uproar over Sourav Ganguly's unceremonious sacking from the Test squad gathered momentum with politicians from West Bengal lending their voice to the former captain.

The issue cropped up in Lok Sabha where Speaker Somnath Chatterjee was critical of the decision to sack Ganguly whom he described as a "world-class player".

Raj Singh Dungarpur, an important member of the Sharad Pawar camp, added a new twist to the controversial axing of Ganguly by saying that BCCI Presidents proposed move to speak to national selectors on the issue would set a bad precedent.

Pawar, who had yesterday expressed "hurt and shock" over Ganguly's sacking refused to answer any questions on a day which saw defence Minister Pranab Mukherjee and West Bengal Chief Minister Buddhadeb Bhattacharya throwing their weight behind the beleaguered Bengal cricketer.

As the BCCI tried to contend with the growing sympathy wave for the deposed captain, it received a jolt from its own house as two of its sub-committee members expressed resentment over the manner in which Ganguly was dropped from the team for the third Test in Ahmedabad.

The two committee members demanded that the selectors "redress the wrong" done to Ganguly by reinstating him in the national squad. One of them also threatened to quit if the Bengal cricketer was not included in the squad for the tour of Pakistan.

"It's a grave issue. The entire country is angry. Is there anything more to say? I am deeply disturbed," said Gopal Bose, who has been named chief of the Eastern zonal wing of the National Cricket Academy after the change of guard in the BCCI.

Raja Venkat, Member (East Zone) of the newly constituted media committee, said the selectors had committed a "blasphemy" by omitting Ganguly.

Even as Kolkata witnessed demonstrations for the third day running, the Ganguly episode reached Parliament where the Speaker Somnath Chatterjee allowed it to be included in the agenda for discussion next week.

Pawars move to have a discussion on the issue with the selectors was strongly opposed by Dungarpur, a key member in the new BCCI regime.

Dungapur said that when a team was announced it always had the approval of the President and pulling up the selectors for any decision they make was "not cricket".

"Obviously and unfortunately, it is (a bad precedent). I am surprised by the statement from a man of his stature and experience," Dungarpur, who backed Pawar in the recent Board elections, said.

In Kolkata, former BCCI president Jagmohan Dalmiya urged Pawar to reinstate Ganguly in the squad for the third Test beginning on Sunday.

"Since you have realised that Sourav should not have been dropped from the team after performing well in the Delhi Test, I would earnestly appeal for your kind intervention in the matter and to advise the secretary to reinstate Sourav in the squad for the Ahmedabad Test," Dalmiya said in a letter to Pawar


http://sify.com/news/othernews/fullstory.php?id=14051141

What a progress the country has made. The idiots who dont know C of Cricket are going to discuss this. Why do we have cricket control boards ????

 

[qwert97]

There is no rush to get the property transferred in my name. I can get it done in the next year or two but I just want to make sure I will be able to do that with the OIC. (btw do I have to be present physically in India to get the property transferred or it can be done even if I am physically in the US?)

My trip will be around 7 or 14 feb to 27 feb. I can not postpone it. I will apply for OIC as soon as it opens up but the vice consul in houston said he was not sure when it will start and how long it will take to get it. Keep in mind there are people who applied earlier that have to be given the OIC first.

You need to be physically present in order to get the transfer done. You will have to visit the registrar office who will take fingerprints on the transfer deed to confirm the your identity. I had to go through that process some years ago. Keep lots of Indian Rupees handy since you will need it when you visit the registrar's office.