India Dual Citizenship Mega Thread (Merged)
- Thread starter columbiaman
- Start date
Hotdiggety said:
Per Indian law, you loose Indian citizenship by taking a naturalization oath of another country. There is no such thing of 6 months of grace period for you to move to " U visa, and perhaps avoid the incovenience of having to get a short-term visa to visit India, if the need arises."
Only time 6 month grace period has been mentioned on this board was in relation with the fact if someone owned or inherited a property in India, they have 6 months to either sell the property or become PIO to continue to able to continue to hold the property. With OIC, you may assume that, instead of becoming PIO, getting OIC should take care of that requirement.
Never ever think of trying to travel on Indian passport to even India, after becoming a US citizen. As a US citizen, you have to leave and enter US with a US passport. Entering India with Indian passport under these circumstances will create big problems while coming back to US, even if it goes undetected while entering India. Indian Immigration stamps passports for both entry and exits. If you get Indian passport stamped entering India, while coming back you will have to show US passport. Only thing to do is to get your Indian passport canceled after you become US citizen and get a visa, PIO or OIC (whenever it becomes available) to travel to India.
I guess the sheer callousness of the government and bureaucracy of india stands exposed ! Few embassies have the information,lots of them dont,One has started accepting registrations,few of them will be doing so.....basically it's all a mess.
If they cant get there act together on one such simple thing how can we trust them for higer things (like safety and returns on investment)
If they cant get there act together on one such simple thing how can we trust them for higer things (like safety and returns on investment)
basis said:
Nothing. Even as a green card holder, i.e. NRI, you are supposed to inform the bank and they convert the Indian bank account to Non-Resident Ordinary (NRO) account. You cannot repatriate the money from India from NRO accounts, and you have to file the taxes in in India if they earn above certain threshold, but I think you can repatriate the earnings from NRO accounts. You are free to operate the accounts while you visit India.
Hotdiggety
Registered Users (C)
sg_orl said:
I stand corrected. I gave up my Indian citizenship 20 years ago, so I guess I'm the wrong guy to be offering opinions on stuff like this.
I rarely ever go back to India. In fact, my last trip was ten years ago. The reason I left, and why I don't go back now, is mainly because of the way the government works. People have told me that things have improved there since I left. If this OIC scheme is anything to go by, then they are lying. I'm glad I left, and I'm glad I'm staying away.
Having real dual citizenship is an interesting thought. I can see that there may be some financial or business uses for it. However, this U visa sticker scheme seems like another one of the bureacracy's half-baked ideas, which in the end may never see the light of day.
Oci
Did you say 'few' of them will start accepting the applications.In North America only washington has the vaguest idea of the thing called OCI. Sheer incompetence. I was just curious..who attends these pravasi diwas inspite of all these false promises. Perhaps relatives of
the babus!
mangal969 said:
Did you say 'few' of them will start accepting the applications.In North America only washington has the vaguest idea of the thing called OCI. Sheer incompetence. I was just curious..who attends these pravasi diwas inspite of all these false promises. Perhaps relatives of
the babus!
gaurav2005
Registered Users (C)
Is personal appearance required in case of PIO ?
I was looking at the application process for OIC, surprised by some of the things:
1. Personal appearance at the embassy/consular office for OIC.
2. Application asking to list immovable assets in US and India. Are they referring to primary residence or even investment properties ?
3. Taking an oath of allegiance ? They are not really giving Dual citizenship so why so much fanfare.
Anyway, is the PIO process same as OIC ?
Thanks
I was looking at the application process for OIC, surprised by some of the things:
1. Personal appearance at the embassy/consular office for OIC.
2. Application asking to list immovable assets in US and India. Are they referring to primary residence or even investment properties ?
3. Taking an oath of allegiance ? They are not really giving Dual citizenship so why so much fanfare.
Anyway, is the PIO process same as OIC ?
Thanks
Hotdiggety
Registered Users (C)
gaurav2005 said:
Some of those things have changed. You may be reading the old procedure. Here's a link to the Indian Home Ministry, which details the process as it stands today.
http://mha.nic.in/oci-main.htm
Bear in mind that all this is still academic, since nothing has been implemented yet and may never be, judging by the lack of action till now.
But you raise an interesting point. People like us have always only wanted real dual citizenship. Instead of giving us that, they came up with the PIO card, which itself was a non-starter because of the $1000 fee (lowered now). Then they said they'd give us real dual citizenship. Instead of doing that, they've AGAIN come up with a hare-brained visa scheme instead of doing the real thing.
So we've now got not one, but two (assuming OCI is implemented) types of long-term visas to keep us happy. If we keep asking for dual citizenship, I wonder if they'll come up with a third kind somewhere along the line, while continuing to deny us the real thing?
What one poster posted on this board -
The OIC though intended by the government to start on the 14th is not yet implemented by the Indian HC in London. In fact, I told the guys at the HC that they should check out the websites of the HC in Wellington and Washington It was the first they had heard of it - not unusual for the Indian Civil Service I guess ! Remember I actually went to apply for the PIO card on the date the OIC scheme is meant to start !
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=5329&start=45
The OIC though intended by the government to start on the 14th is not yet implemented by the Indian HC in London. In fact, I told the guys at the HC that they should check out the websites of the HC in Wellington and Washington It was the first they had heard of it - not unusual for the Indian Civil Service I guess ! Remember I actually went to apply for the PIO card on the date the OIC scheme is meant to start !
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=5329&start=45
The long wait
I was one of the people who applied when the system first became "operational" - 12 months ago. I am still waiting for my certificate. I should have suspected something when the consulate officials had no idea what to do with the forms. In fact I have put off a planned visit thinking that implementation was just around the corner. Since then, the forms have changed, the costs have changed, and all we will be getting seems to be a "U" class visa - that you still need to renew every few years as your passport expires.
The current proposal has a number of issues with it - there are no processes in place, and a number of government departments would have some issues with the implementation. They don't check your identity, there are no security checks, and there are no processes to confirm you are a PIO. They don't check your spouse is legally married to you, or your children's birth certificates - i.e. the processes have a long way to go. Even if some consulates start accepting applications on 14 Nov, no one has suggested it would take less than a couple of months before the first certificates are issued. The "15 day" turnaround is a long way off.
There are currently 2000+ applications waiting to be processed. Anyway my advice is don't do anything unless you know someone who has successfully obtained the OCI. For my part, I'll keep you posted
I was one of the people who applied when the system first became "operational" - 12 months ago. I am still waiting for my certificate. I should have suspected something when the consulate officials had no idea what to do with the forms. In fact I have put off a planned visit thinking that implementation was just around the corner. Since then, the forms have changed, the costs have changed, and all we will be getting seems to be a "U" class visa - that you still need to renew every few years as your passport expires.
The current proposal has a number of issues with it - there are no processes in place, and a number of government departments would have some issues with the implementation. They don't check your identity, there are no security checks, and there are no processes to confirm you are a PIO. They don't check your spouse is legally married to you, or your children's birth certificates - i.e. the processes have a long way to go. Even if some consulates start accepting applications on 14 Nov, no one has suggested it would take less than a couple of months before the first certificates are issued. The "15 day" turnaround is a long way off.
There are currently 2000+ applications waiting to be processed. Anyway my advice is don't do anything unless you know someone who has successfully obtained the OCI. For my part, I'll keep you posted
Oci
PIO1, I am in the same boat at yours. I had applied for the certificate way back in December 2004. Subsequently I was informed by the Indian embassy that the forms have been sent to India for processing. If that has happened I am worried since it may take months for the forms to be retuned to respective embassies. I have even contacted the embassy and asked them if I can use that money to apply for PIO but they would not do it since they said that as per earlier rules funds can only be returned if the application was denied and according to them my application is still under process. From the last week or so none of my emails are being answered by the embassy. I am surprised that the Government of India does make this a priority since the influx of foreign funds would be phenomenal. As per the estimate they are expecting a few million applications. If you multiply that by $275 that would be millions and millions of dollars. But I guess they dont care.
PIO1, I am in the same boat at yours. I had applied for the certificate way back in December 2004. Subsequently I was informed by the Indian embassy that the forms have been sent to India for processing. If that has happened I am worried since it may take months for the forms to be retuned to respective embassies. I have even contacted the embassy and asked them if I can use that money to apply for PIO but they would not do it since they said that as per earlier rules funds can only be returned if the application was denied and according to them my application is still under process. From the last week or so none of my emails are being answered by the embassy. I am surprised that the Government of India does make this a priority since the influx of foreign funds would be phenomenal. As per the estimate they are expecting a few million applications. If you multiply that by $275 that would be millions and millions of dollars. But I guess they dont care.
Qwert - Agreed! More than the $250 what about the contribution that these PIOs could make? I think it is widely accepted that the diaspora has and will contribute significantly to India's growth.
If you try to spend more than 6 months there as a foreigner, you need to register at CID, pay bribes, and report to the police regularly like a criminal. There are ownership and investment restrictions, and basically, you are technically second class. The "dual citizenship" was meant to fix all this.
What I can't understand is that the current PM wants it, the previous PM wanted it, the oposition wants it, the parliament passed it, the President signed it, govt departments and the consulates say they want to make it happen, so why, after 4 years is there no action? Surely someone can push it through?
This is the story of India. I am not discouraged like some others though, and feel that it is the duty of people like us to get rid of this nonsense and move India to where it should be. If we are having so many problems, what about the poor rural people, who can't get basic infrastructure and welfare despite money, govt assurances and bureacratic inaction over decades? Who's going to help them?
If you try to spend more than 6 months there as a foreigner, you need to register at CID, pay bribes, and report to the police regularly like a criminal. There are ownership and investment restrictions, and basically, you are technically second class. The "dual citizenship" was meant to fix all this.
What I can't understand is that the current PM wants it, the previous PM wanted it, the oposition wants it, the parliament passed it, the President signed it, govt departments and the consulates say they want to make it happen, so why, after 4 years is there no action? Surely someone can push it through?
This is the story of India. I am not discouraged like some others though, and feel that it is the duty of people like us to get rid of this nonsense and move India to where it should be. If we are having so many problems, what about the poor rural people, who can't get basic infrastructure and welfare despite money, govt assurances and bureacratic inaction over decades? Who's going to help them?
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boggavarapu
Registered Users (C)
Applied for OCI in November 2004
I have applied for OIC in Nov. 04 and still waiting!
At the time I applied for OIC, I was already a PIO Card holder.
I have already spoken with the Indian Consulate where I applied
re. the possible refund (PIO Card holder needs to pay only
$25.00). They have indicated a possible refund in my case.
However, all this can be clarified only when the scheme
actually becomes operational everywhere!! Hoping to see some
real action in the next couple of weeks!
I have applied for OIC in Nov. 04 and still waiting!
At the time I applied for OIC, I was already a PIO Card holder.
I have already spoken with the Indian Consulate where I applied
re. the possible refund (PIO Card holder needs to pay only
$25.00). They have indicated a possible refund in my case.
However, all this can be clarified only when the scheme
actually becomes operational everywhere!! Hoping to see some
real action in the next couple of weeks!
Hotdiggety
Registered Users (C)
The Indian bureacracy isn't set up for the good of the country. It's only set up to control the population for the personal welfare of the politicians and bureaucrats - the old British method of control, but actually worsened by several degrees after independence. Economic reforms haven't changed that.
So think about why they should do this at all. The country may benefit, but they personally won't. We can't vote for them, and we will not bribe them. We've become too used to getting things done without having to pay money on the side.
That's why they're going to continue to drag their feet. You saw August 15 go by. Now you've seen Nov. 14 go by. Pretty soon you'll see next year's NRI day, and Republic Day go by. At some point, they'll make some announcement that this won't happen because they've got some more changes to make. In fact, this may NEVER get done. They could keep procrastinating forever, exactly the way they've done for the last decade.
So think about why they should do this at all. The country may benefit, but they personally won't. We can't vote for them, and we will not bribe them. We've become too used to getting things done without having to pay money on the side.
That's why they're going to continue to drag their feet. You saw August 15 go by. Now you've seen Nov. 14 go by. Pretty soon you'll see next year's NRI day, and Republic Day go by. At some point, they'll make some announcement that this won't happen because they've got some more changes to make. In fact, this may NEVER get done. They could keep procrastinating forever, exactly the way they've done for the last decade.
Oic
I totally agree with you. I will take it a step further and expect that the PM will make new announcements in the next pravasi diwas and that will take few more years to implement. If they cannot implement a scheme in 10 months (it closed on Jan25th) they should just refund the money to the applicants and give them an option to apply for a PIO card but as rightly said by others they won't do that since the wheels of Bureaucracy turn really slow in India.
All said and done I still think highly about India and I will be wait patiently for the scheme since one day I would like to get dual citizenship.
Hotdiggety said:
I totally agree with you. I will take it a step further and expect that the PM will make new announcements in the next pravasi diwas and that will take few more years to implement. If they cannot implement a scheme in 10 months (it closed on Jan25th) they should just refund the money to the applicants and give them an option to apply for a PIO card but as rightly said by others they won't do that since the wheels of Bureaucracy turn really slow in India.
All said and done I still think highly about India and I will be wait patiently for the scheme since one day I would like to get dual citizenship.
Maybe all of us can come together and slap a nice fat lawsuit on the government !
Even if we dont get anything monetarily,it would give a nice shock in the right places.With some countries already accepting applications (Wellington,Colombo,Bahrain and the India based FRRO's[i know for sure of Mumbai])I doubt that they would wait for a month or so.
Even if we dont get anything monetarily,it would give a nice shock in the right places.With some countries already accepting applications (Wellington,Colombo,Bahrain and the India based FRRO's[i know for sure of Mumbai])I doubt that they would wait for a month or so.