Immigration Samachar - 03

[garam.chadi]

Anti-Illegal Immigration Forces Share a Wide Tent

By Nicholas Riccardi, Times Staff Writer

Activists for tighter border controls aren't unified but say they reflect public sentiment.

"Look, they're over there!" Dallacroce says as she steers her Lexus SUV through her neighborhood. "That one's under the trees! My children have to see this." Her outrage rising, Dallacroce takes a detour, stopping at a retirement home to distribute fliers for her new group, Mothers Against Illegal Aliens.


Dallacroce is trying to influence Congress to crack down on illegal immigration. In recent weeks, they have staged demonstrations in cities in the Midwest and Southwest that have drawn a couple of hundred protesters each.

Activists who take the toughest stance against illegal immigration have formed too many groups to count, and more seem to crop up every week.

=============================​

Illegals are here since a long time ... But now people start to take notice of them.. Did the "Day without Immigrants" rally --- make many American hostile towards them ... Looks like the protests was a BAD idea.

Or Simply it is -- the undocumented are POOR. As President Bush said -- we should have a human face to the problem.

 

[saras76]

Now they take notice ...

Anti-Illegal Immigration Forces Share a Wide Tent

By Nicholas Riccardi, Times Staff Writer

Activists for tighter border controls aren't unified but say they reflect public sentiment.

"Look, they're over there!" Dallacroce says as she steers her Lexus SUV through her neighborhood. "That one's under the trees! My children have to see this." Her outrage rising, Dallacroce takes a detour, stopping at a retirement home to distribute fliers for her new group, Mothers Against Illegal Aliens.


Dallacroce is trying to influence Congress to crack down on illegal immigration. In recent weeks, they have staged demonstrations in cities in the Midwest and Southwest that have drawn a couple of hundred protesters each.

Activists who take the toughest stance against illegal immigration have formed too many groups to count, and more seem to crop up every week.

=============================​

Illegals are here since a long time ... But now people start to take notice of them.. Did the "Day without Immigrants" rally --- make many American hostile towards them ... Looks like the protests was a BAD idea.

Or Simply it is -- the undocumented are POOR. As President Bush said -- we should have a human face to the problem.

Guys and Gals,

Isn't it ironic that all of a sudden in 2006 the illegal immigration issue has become such a hot button item. What is it about 06? Why was it not a big deal in 05 or 04? Did the 13 million illegals cross over in 06? Ofcourse not.

The only reason immigration issues have been raised this year is because its an election year. The republicans are suffering on all fronts. There are record defecits, the war in Iraq is not going according to plan, gas prices are sky high, Iran is getting hostile by the day and numerous Rebublicans have been involved in scandals over the past year. They have pushed the immigration issue to the fore in order to divert attention from their plight and to energize their base (white conservatives). They know that this is a divise issue but they will do anything right now to get the heat of them.

The democrats are playing their own games in order to get control of the House and Senate this November. They are trying to thwart everything the Republicans are doing whether it makes sense or not.

I don't mean to offend illegals but in general we legals are more educated and should not be naive about what is going on here. No party is interested in any solution. They are just jockeying around for position and power. This "may" lead to some relief for us but we should not count on it. Anything that happens or does not happen between now and Novemeber will have hidden reasons that will not be clearly stated. There will be all sorts of closed door politics going on. If this immigration debate was happening any year other than an election year, I would believe it more. Right now I am just sitting back and watching this drama unfold. The only problem is that this drama acutally has huge reprecussions on my life. That is not comforting ..

regards,

saras

 

[chanduv23]

U r absolutely right Saras. This is a political issue and we might get benefitted if we are lucky. Those who got their GCs prior to all this confusion are luckier than us.

 

[balu_g]

Hi Saras/Chandu, People who came to US in the 199_'s and got their GC's are the most luckiest. After 2001 US is undergoing a major transition in its immigration policies (be it H1B quota, EB Visa numbers). We are the unlucky ones to get stuck in this transition. And yes it hugely affects the personal lives of people.

 

[immi2006]

Andersen Cooper 350 update yest on Illegal Immig and Legal Plight

Yesterday AC 360 interviewed Senator Corny, and others including Laura Bush, all of them mentioned how upset they were to see Mex Flags, Spanish version of national anthem, and more importantly, disrespecting US laws and waving foreign flag.

THey mentioned that it may not before September any decsion on CIR is made, one of them said he is doubtful anything will pass this year at all on Immi reforms. Laura was highly sympatheitc for legal immigrants and their wait in line and she said legal immigrants will be the first preference.

I guess, the Immi Debate is basically divert people attention on IRAQ, Rising GAS Prices, Low Bush Ratings... and Democrats want to churn it to their advantage.

I am not sure if any of you are watching AC 360 at all... it was there last night around 9.30 Pacific time.


- Saras I totally agree with your observation

 

[chanduv23]

Hi Saras/Chandu, People who came to US in the 199_'s and got their GC's are the most luckiest. After 2001 US is undergoing a major transition in its immigration policies (be it H1B quota, EB Visa numbers). We are the unlucky ones to get stuck in this transition. And yes it hugely affects the personal lives of people.

Yeah, it strikes us slowly that we have to
- learn to live with Shit
- Make most of what we have
- Change our attitudes from honest and humble to being greedy and selfish.

It is good for us, we will become great citizens of the world who can live anywhere under any condition (because we have been trained to take shit). We train our children to be street smart and selfish rather than discipline just because they need to survive and not go through what we go through.

Personally I don't care if I get a GC because I have been here for 6 years and still bounce all over the country on contract jobs. Dealing with our immigration issues here is like dealing with a bunch of jokers. To me all this is a big joke. To me everyone who sits in a responsible position and give shitty answers or excuses is a joker. These people hid behind the curtains and are cowards. It is a stress to deal with such people, we can term it the "Nature of the Beast".

 

[immi2006]

Another thing..

We created chain business for lawyers to generate immigration related dollar earnings. They owe us tax relief for helping us economy

Yeah, it strikes us slowly that we have to
- learn to live with Shit
- Make most of what we have
- Change our attitudes from honest and humble to being greedy and selfish.

It is good for us, we will become great citizens of the world who can live anywhere under any condition (because we have been trained to take shit). We train our children to be street smart and selfish rather than discipline just because they need to survive and not go through what we go through.

Personally I don't care if I get a GC because I have been here for 6 years and still bounce all over the country on contract jobs. Dealing with our immigration issues here is like dealing with a bunch of jokers. To me all this is a big joke. To me everyone who sits in a responsible position and give shitty answers or excuses is a joker. These people hid behind the curtains and are cowards. It is a stress to deal with such people, we can term it the "Nature of the Beast".

 

[saras76]

We need to be smart ..

Yeah, it strikes us slowly that we have to
- learn to live with Shit
- Make most of what we have
- Change our attitudes from honest and humble to being greedy and selfish.

It is good for us, we will become great citizens of the world who can live anywhere under any condition (because we have been trained to take shit). We train our children to be street smart and selfish rather than discipline just because they need to survive and not go through what we go through.

Personally I don't care if I get a GC because I have been here for 6 years and still bounce all over the country on contract jobs. Dealing with our immigration issues here is like dealing with a bunch of jokers. To me all this is a big joke. To me everyone who sits in a responsible position and give shitty answers or excuses is a joker. These people hid behind the curtains and are cowards. It is a stress to deal with such people, we can term it the "Nature of the Beast".

chanduv,

The one thing I have learnt is that we need to do whats best for ourselves and ourselves only. We truly are on our own. It is in no ones imimediate interest to address our "legal immigration" problems. We will get a lot of sound bites of support but nothing concrete will happen. For EB3 this process has become a pure lottery. Retrogression has just put a temporary stop to the lottery. Once retrogression ends (if that ever happens), we will go back to this random system.

Those of us who are currently stuck either need to figure out ways to outsmart the system or make the most of what we have. We also need to ensure that we give up the least amount we legally can to the economy here. That is our only way out of this.

regards,

saras

 

[marlon2006]

Saras, I don't think the main reason to notice illegals in the country is because of the elections.

If you look at the statistics, you will see that 40% of illegals entered the country since 2003/2004-2005. That is recent. That happens because the word of mouth in South America is that people should come here and enjoy the sanctuary. Therefore the chain migration is making the number of illegals growing to a point that is making passive Americans start taking notice now, like them or not. I think many border states have experienced closure of hospitals, overcrowded schools. Even politicians who wanted to turn the blind have been forced to debate the issue now. Many Americans didn't realize that problem though. The recent marches have helped Americans pay more attention to the problem. The marches definitely backfired on the illegal alien supporters.

Here is some fresh statistics showing that Americans do not support legalization of illegal aliens. What that means for us ? I think it will be hard to see such immigration reform bill passing this year.
http://www.cis.org/articles/2006/2006poll.html

If you read immigration-law, it seems Oh Matthew backed off from his position that a bill should included the illegal aliens. Now he agrees that the Senate should move on and debate other topics such as EB visa numbers, H1Bs, etc. That would be ideal, but who knows.

Guys and Gals,

Isn't it ironic that all of a sudden in 2006 the illegal immigration issue has become such a hot button item. What is it about 06? Why was it not a big deal in 05 or 04? Did the 13 million illegals cross over in 06? Ofcourse not.

The only reason immigration issues have been raised this year is because its an election year. The republicans are suffering on all fronts. There are record defecits, the war in Iraq is not going according to plan, gas prices are sky high, Iran is getting hostile by the day and numerous Rebublicans have been involved in scandals over the past year. They have pushed the immigration issue to the fore in order to divert attention from their plight and to energize their base (white conservatives). They know that this is a divise issue but they will do anything right now to get the heat of them.

The democrats are playing their own games in order to get control of the House and Senate this November. They are trying to thwart everything the Republicans are doing whether it makes sense or not.

I don't mean to offend illegals but in general we legals are more educated and should not be naive about what is going on here. No party is interested in any solution. They are just jockeying around for position and power. This "may" lead to some relief for us but we should not count on it. Anything that happens or does not happen between now and Novemeber will have hidden reasons that will not be clearly stated. There will be all sorts of closed door politics going on. If this immigration debate was happening any year other than an election year, I would believe it more. Right now I am just sitting back and watching this drama unfold. The only problem is that this drama acutally has huge reprecussions on my life. That is not comforting ..

regards,

saras

 

[balu_g]

Here is some fresh statistics showing that Americans do not support legalization of illegal aliens. What that means for us ? I think it will be hard to see such immigration reform bill passing this year.
http://www.cis.org/articles/2006/2006poll.html

If you read immigration-law, it seems Oh Matthew backed off from his position that a bill should included the illegal aliens. Now he agrees that the Senate should move on and debate other topics such as EB visa numbers, H1Bs, etc. That would be ideal, but who knows.

Marlon, Good find. So is there any hope for us in the upcoming bills (SKIL, STEM)? I think these bills are too good to be accepted. Give us your thoughts.

 

[marlon2006]

To be honest with you, I think the decisive factor on whether senators can consider the EB bills in the medium-term or not is the intensity of the lobbying power behind them. We know that we are mostly alone in this fight. You can see my earlier posts that I think we should always communicate, but in reality our efforts have very little relevance. However, there is still hope that big corporations such as Microsoft and other big corporations may be pumping some incentives to make the bill which addresses H1B alive. Our cause would be attached to such bill. The bills are out there and the fact that Sen. Cornyn introduced the bill separately from his previous illegal alien bill may be a good sign. Who knows maybe he realized that the illegal alien bill would die for good ? Of course I am speculating this.

Any hope for us ? I think so.

Marlon, Good find. So is there any hope for us in the upcoming bills (SKIL, STEM)? I think these bills are too good to be accepted. Give us your thoughts.

 

[saras76]

Its mixed ...

Saras, I don't think the main reason to notice illegals in the country is because of the elections.

If you look at the statistics, you will see that 40% of illegals entered the country since 2003/2004-2005. That is recent. That happens because the word of mouth in South America is that people should come here and enjoy the sanctuary. Therefore the chain migration is making the number of illegals growing to a point that is making passive Americans start taking notice now, like them or not. I think many border states have experienced closure of hospitals, overcrowded schools. Even politicians who wanted to turn the blind have been forced to debate the issue now. Many Americans didn't realize that problem though. The recent marches have helped Americans pay more attention to the problem. The marches definitely backfired on the illegal alien supporters.

Here is some fresh statistics showing that Americans do not support legalization of illegal aliens. What that means for us ? I think it will be hard to see such immigration reform bill passing this year.
http://www.cis.org/articles/2006/2006poll.html

If you read immigration-law, it seems Oh Matthew backed off from his position that a bill should included the illegal aliens. Now he agrees that the Senate should move on and debate other topics such as EB visa numbers, H1Bs, etc. That would be ideal, but who knows.

marlon2006,

I would agree that it might not be the main reason it is being discussed but the timing is still very suspect. Sorry to say but the average American remains clueless about most issues. The conservative talk show hosts decide what the Red States get worked up about. They can take any issue (DUBAI ports deal is an example) and blow it out of proportion. The average American takes what they hear as the "truth" and forms his/her opinion.

I still believe that the only reason the immigration issue is at the fore-front right now is that its a nice diversion. Politicians know that its a "hot button" issue and has been brushed under the carpet for several years, they have chosen this year in particular for this. There are pure political motives behind this.

As for my own opinion on illegals. I think this is a problem that cannot and will not be fixed. Bold statements such as "build a fence" or "throw the illegals" out are just headline grabing sound bites. Americans let illegals in, they gave them jobs, the price of goods was lower because of the cheap labor, the elite hired illegals as gardners, handyman, nannies etc etc. Till the game was being played by the "Americans" rules things were just fine, now that there are millions of illegals, the same Americans that exploited illegals are making grand statements about how bad it is for America. The situation now is that wages for the jobs that illegals do are so low that no American is willing to do them. Sorry but you can't have your cake and eat it to ...

I do not support illegal immigration but I do not believe in turning my back on a problem that is self created. America created this problem, it needs to face it in a rational manner. All this anti illegal rhetoric will die down after the elections. Wait and watch ..

regards,

saras

 

[marlon2006]

Folks who put a stop to S.1932 were Americans guided by numberusa.com and fairus.org. The membership of those organizations have increased significantly after the marches and debates on TV.

It makes sense that it is noisy now in parts due to the elections. The problem is that after the November election, it will be 2007 and them it will come another election in 2008. Honestly it is hard to imagine this discussing being silenced. Let's wait and see. I may be wrong. God forbidden we don't experience another 9/11 on US soil. If nothing is being done, then the influx of 10,000+/day will continue and eventually bad people will get in. If that happens then we shall see Americans turning to the right for good and that may lower our I-485 priority even further.

marlon2006,

I would agree that it might not be the main reason it is being discussed but the timing is still very suspect. Sorry to say but the average American remains clueless about most issues. The conservative talk show hosts decide what the Red States get worked up about. They can take any issue (DUBAI ports deal is an example) and blow it out of proportion. The average American takes what they hear as the "truth" and forms his/her opinion.

I still believe that the only reason the immigration issue is at the fore-front right now is that its a nice diversion. Politicians know that its a "hot button" issue and has been brushed under the carpet for several years, they have chosen this year in particular for this. There are pure political motives behind this.

As for my own opinion on illegals. I think this is a problem that cannot and will not be fixed. Bold statements such as "build a fence" or "throw the illegals" out are just headline grabing sound bites. Americans let illegals in, they gave them jobs, the price of goods was lower because of the cheap labor, the elite hired illegals as gardners, handyman, nannies etc etc. Till the game was being played by the "Americans" rules things were just fine, now that there are millions of illegals, the same Americans that exploited illegals are making grand statements about how bad it is for America. The situation now is that wages for the jobs that illegals do are so low that no American is willing to do them. Sorry but you can't have your cake and eat it to ...

I do not support illegal immigration but I do not believe in turning my back on a problem that is self created. America created this problem, it needs to face it in a rational manner. All this anti illegal rhetoric will die down after the elections. Wait and watch ..

regards,

saras

 

[gcstrat]

Another thought

I think there is another reason for massive rallies by Illegals.

It may probably be due the Dangerous Bill passed by the HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES last year - HR 4437. I think that has hit a raw nerve among employers, churches, human rights groups, etc. HR 4437 is a draconian bill which everybody fears.

So, everyone now thinks - its do or die.

Hence rallies and other back-door lobbying, politics are at play.

Regards,
GCStrat

 

[saras76]

Yes forgot about that ..

I think there is another reason for massive rallies by Illegals.

It may probably be due the Dangerous Bill passed by the HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES last year - HR 4437. I think that has hit a raw nerve among employers, churches, human rights groups, etc. HR 4437 is a draconian bill which everybody fears.

So, everyone now thinks - its do or die.

Hence rallies and other back-door lobbying, politics are at play.

Regards,
GCStrat

gcstart,

Great point. I totally forgot what started this whole mess in the first place. The HOUSE of representatives (Rebulican majority) put together a draconian bill last year that I believe made being illegal a felony. This was a complete ploy to pander to the conservative base. It is a ridculous bill that was created only for political reasons. That bill had the desired effect of starting the immigration debate and getting the illegals worked up. Now that issue is not being discussed and the whole thing has been shifted to the CIR.

Man .. the more I think about this issue the more I lose hope of any resolution this year. We need some political miracle .... or a lucky fluke to get our provisions passed this year ...

regards,

saras

 

[ufo2002]

Sorry to break this to you but many countries classify entering their soil without documentation and staying as felonies! Most police forces in those countries have jurisdiction to do legal residence checks on an individual.
Try doing exactly this with Mexico...
The USA is right now being very LENIENT with illegals... police/sheriffs CANNOT even arrest an illegal as that is under the jurisdiction of ICE.

I think there is another reason for massive rallies by Illegals.

It may probably be due the Dangerous Bill passed by the HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES last year - HR 4437. I think that has hit a raw nerve among employers, churches, human rights groups, etc. HR 4437 is a draconian bill which everybody fears.

So, everyone now thinks - its do or die.

Hence rallies and other back-door lobbying, politics are at play.

Regards,
GCStrat

 

[gcstrat]

There is a difference

ufo2002

I agree people breaking the law are felons. Please fo after them.

But let's say you are a church and you provide some water and food to these illegals.

Well, under HR 4437, the church is ALSO a felon.

And that part is what has outraged the churches, employers, human rights activists, and other people.

There are enough laws in US currently to deport these illegals, without the need for any draconian law or bill such as HR 4437. USA is fast becoming a police state.

Regards
GCStrat

 

[marlon2006]

HR 4437 just enforces basic common laws

HR 4437 was passed as per recommendation by an immigration committee which was created after 9/11. In addition, I read that many politicians started to listen complaints that their communities were bombarded with illegal aliens. Again, I don't see this is a pure politicial move. It is an actual issue. It is obvious that if one doesn't enforce common, very basic common laws that probably exist in your own country and in the vast majority of nations, the US will definitely take many hits again worse than 9/11. Please let's be honest and realistic here. The US is currently a sanctuary for illegals. Police cannot touch illegals as is now. HR 4437 is a very basic law.

By the way the "felon" designation has been dropped from HR 4437, since that would potentially send too many people to jail if enacted. I am against illegal immigration but I agree that making those who help them felons it would be too much at this point.

ufo2002

I agree people breaking the law are felons. Please fo after them.

But let's say you are a church and you provide some water and food to these illegals.

Well, under HR 4437, the church is ALSO a felon.

And that part is what has outraged the churches, employers, human rights activists, and other people.

There are enough laws in US currently to deport these illegals, without the need for any draconian law or bill such as HR 4437. USA is fast becoming a police state.

Regards
GCStrat

 

[marlon2006]

Very basic bill.

HR 4437 is probably the type of law that exists in your own country. I don't think there is any political ploy there. I live in a community which clearly has been invaded by illegal aliens. In the past people used to go to a country illegally - I don't care where - and lay low, work, do your things and keep quiet about it. Here in my community, as far as you can imagine from the South borders, illegals are bringing their entire family tree. They celebrate weddings on wide open parks, go to schools. I know one of them who is applying for a scholarship at a community college. They spread the word to their family, friends, neighbours in South America. The next thing you see is a whole new family arriving in my church in 3 weeks. Tell me, how long do you think any country can support this ? The illegals themselves are very naive to do that. They should be smarter and keep the 'pie' to themselves and not bring others that way. The problem is that from talking to them they think they can go to a country and literally do whatever they want. Often they are uneducated people, they can't even understand basic laws. They have exposed themselves too much and can win big time or lose big time in this game.

In my country the army could well put few rounds of 7.62mm on someone's head if you try to cross it illegally.

gcstart,

Great point. I totally forgot what started this whole mess in the first place. The HOUSE of representatives (Rebulican majority) put together a draconian bill last year that I believe made being illegal a felony. This was a complete ploy to pander to the conservative base. It is a ridculous bill that was created only for political reasons. That bill had the desired effect of starting the immigration debate and getting the illegals worked up. Now that issue is not being discussed and the whole thing has been shifted to the CIR.

Man .. the more I think about this issue the more I lose hope of any resolution this year. We need some political miracle .... or a lucky fluke to get our provisions passed this year ...

regards,

saras

 

[gcstrat]

Don't agree

marlon2006

I agree that illegals are illegals and have to be dealt with.

I also agree security is of paramount importance. Indian has 20 million illegal Bangadeshis and that border is being used by terrorists to carry out attacks in India. I am all for security.

What I am highlighting is that HR 4437 has created fear . The fear may be more due to the police state it may have enforced. It is naive to assume HR 4437 is a very basic common-sense law. Some of its wordings are a cause of concern of a police state happening. If it passed, expect "McCarthyism".

Regards
GCStrat