if people here are truely serious.....

djh

Member
....about petitions etc.

Then you need a strategy as someone else pointed out. It's easy to Rah Rah Rah someones comment on these message boards, it's something completely different to get off your duff and do something. And it's another level completely to put your name on a letter and send something to BCIS, as you may fear that somehow your application may get affected.

Now for those who want to put their "chicken nuggets" on the line and do something other than lip service, here is a strategy that I am proposing and I welcome constructive criticism as well as someone to play "devils advocate" to look for the flaws.

Strategy:

We need an all out assault. (Period)

A letter here, a message there amount to nothing more than half hearted attempts and wishful thinking. You can be certain if and when the US attacks Iraq, it will be an all out assault. Why? Because it's the only thing that will be affective, you don't know which line of attack will weaken the enemy the quickest and the complete barrage puts them in a defensive mode and ultimately capitulation.

The way to assault BCIS is going to be through communication.

1) Media.
It is the greatest vehicle to put pressure on BCIS. There is the press and tv, specifically I think the LA Times is probably the best vehicle to do this. The reason I believe this is the size and reputation of the newspaper, the proximity to CSC - it's in their constituency, and the large immigrant support base in the region. Now, instead of looking at it from our selfish perspective, we need to see it from the media's perspective, i.e. what's in it for them. Our perspective makes it a good news story, i.e. the unjust and undue process, but it needs more......from their perspective.....a reason why they will take it on.....and not just take it on....but make this a large story. Any suggestions?

2) BCIS Ombudsman
Now that it is BCIS, I thought they were to set up an office of the Ombudsman - basically our mediator for such things. We need to craft communication that is non-emotional, factual with statistical evidence and build the case for how unjust this process is. We need to compel this person to cut through the beauacracy and get action (an ombudsman's job). We should also find the contact addresses of the senior managers at CSC. And flood them with the same type of correspondence.

3)AILA
We are their bread and butter. To date they have done some feeble questioning but they have not exerted the power of their lobby. Anyone have any ideas how to push their hot button to get them to "really lobby" on our behalf?

4)BCIS Fax number
We should continuously bombard their fax with messages, we could do this through anonymous ip addresses with fax messaging. I am not suggesting anything elicit here but I think we need to communicate to them at a grass roots level of their lack of progress/service via messages

5) Political Route
Inundate all pertinent elected officials with carefully crafted letters with everyone signature and details. We need to show the history of BCIS/INS's activities which are well documented in the press. We have to somehow make this a "big issue" so they notice us amongst the hundreds of other people who send them crap - again, any ideas?

these are just some of my thoughts.....look forward to others "pragmatic" input

but i think we need to get beyond wishful thinking and bemoaning our plight and be organized and be prepared to act.
 
Gettinglosernow, you are very right.

For getting the media attention, I think a case may be built that ins (csc) delays are damaging to the economy. I think news people will love to hear some horror stories about true stars (well we all are, but some are brighter). If we get stories about really outstanding people with extremely impressive credentials, geniuses who have been waiting for 1.5-2 years, or maybe those who did not have the patience and left and now are successfully working elsewhere for competitors, that might be interesting for a major newspaper to write about.
 
For source 1,2,4,5, their only attention is national security, not any single one of us.

For source 3, they are helping us. But unfortunately they can't decide anything.

Take a hike. Something just won't change.
 
the_card

I would agree with you if it was happening in all 4 centers. It is not. Hence, it's not a matter of national policy (yet). CSC is just a bunch of losers who need a good kick in the ass. I think we should try to stay positive until executed and make noise.
 
Actually, I think trying to catch the attention of media is a great idea, especially under current conditions where (legal) immigrants sometimes (should I say always) face difficulties. I will write to San Francisco Chronical and recommend them do a story about the frustration of legal immigrants.

Again, instead of waiting in frustration and anger, let's do something to improve the situation.
 
coyote, we are not legal immigrants. we are just legal, but not immigrants.

media may pay attention to legal immigrants and show sympathy if they are in trouble. but when media pays attention to legal, but not immigrants, they won't give a shit about it. why? hey, look at those foreign workers, they are taking our jobs.

you can see how long H1 and LC take right now. that's the result of the attention they have paid.

yup, this is their attention: national security, stupidly always the first, and unemployment rate. you do the math: if those foreign workers are gone, what happens? wow! how nice! no security hole. no job loss. dang! idiot!

i would rather just keep it subtle. stirring up stuff might not always be a good thing.

that's just the way it is. if you guys wanna go ahead and play the game, eat the rules.

<eot>
 
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So there we have it. Apathy Rules.

600 scans on this post and only 1 person prepared to do something.

1 person has offered some support and of course 1 cynic who says "poor us we can't do anything" and wishes to pass his defeatist attitude on life to everyone else.

There are also Kartal and INS best friend from the Petition thread that are prepared to actually do somthing.

This has been a very intersting exercise. As I indicated in my post it's very easy to cheerlead but it requires effort to do something and really get involved.

My Observations:

600 scans - there is a vast majority of silent visitors that continue to read the information of the boards but contribute nothing. They are the ones that take and don't give back.

Then there are the minority that at least get involved and post information here which is helpful to everyone who reads.

A smaller minority are very active here and very helpful to others' predicament and spend their time giving feedback.

Then there are the stars...people like PCee etc that give of their time for everyone else.


My Conclusion:

For those that piss and moan about INS - Shut the F*** Up. If you aren't prepared to change things - don't complain. Don't waste your time or mine with your postings and rantings or pathetic "count me in" on your petition threads. I believe there is an old saying that says something to the affect that people get the government they deserve. In other words if you are apathetic/stupid you will get someone who will mistreat you because YOU allow it to happen and you don't do anything to change your lot in life. If you aren't prepared to act you have no right to complain. PERIOD

Funny, the_card, you complain more than anyone else yet you are the most defeatest cynic.....I think Oscar Wilde sums it up nicely...."A cynic is a man who knows the price of everything
but the value of nothing"

To coyotelittle50, Kartal and INS best friend, great you have the gumption to get up and do something. If you are serious - lets craft a strategy and action plan on what to do, as I'm sick of just accepting whatever CSC feels like they can do to us.

Final thought.....

There are basically three types of people in life.

The first group (minority) make it happen

The second group watch it happen (spectators in life)

The third group say "what happened"

Which group are you in?
 
Well I tried getting some help in pushing the INS/BCIS from my company and the company's lawyer but I am not going to get any....

Do you guys know what the top lawyers' like shusterman, murthy, khanna etc have to say about this mess...anybody directly in tocuh with them?
 
When only one out of 600 agrees with you, what does it mean?

I didn't target on you, Mr. closer. I was simply speaking out what I think. It's just my view. You don't have to agree. Therefore you don't have to target on me.

Immigration is a legal progress. Remember it's all about laws. It's not a revolution. So please please please calm down and seriously think about it. Does it help at all when you curse me?

Sure we should fight to protect ourselves. But I seriously doubt about your way. AILA is helping us already. AILA is working to fight CSC. It's a union that we can rely on. Individuals won't help. If you wanna catch the attention, sure, you go ahead and yell out in front of the White House. Be my guest.

Don't be so irritated alright? Everybody suffers. Everybody complains. I did. You did. I might have not helped a lot in the forum. But I did a little, if you do a search on the posts I made. Don't pick on me. I'm not your enemy.

Again, the problem is the system. The laws are not complete. The officers are arbitrary. It's not you. It's not me. It's none of the members on this board. When there is no existing system, do you think AILA helps more or 600 members of this board gathering up in front of the White House helps more?

Just wanna let you know, all the members of this board are on the same boat. No matter what they say or not. No matter when they show up or disappear. We have the same goal.

So, calm down, please.
 
Just got back from the weekend and catching up on these posts....


the_card:

I am calm, you misunderstand my position if you think I am not calm.

I am just stating a fact, my opinion if you will. For the past 9 months I see a lot of people moan and complain about INS. Yet very few when presented with an opportunity to "try" to change things actually will lift 1 finger to change their plight. I am not asking for everyone to do something, only those that feel so compelled and if I am the only person that does, that suits me fine as well.

But......

For all those people that choose to do nothing, my answer is simple..... SHUT UP.

Don't Complain

Don't Rant

Don't say "poor us"

Don't berate INS.

Because you have made a choice. And you choose to do nothing. Therefore you sacrifice your right to complain, it's hollow and meaningless because you choose to do nothing. Sit back, shut up and take whatever gets sent your way.

(Oh by the way, I am calm!) (Just stating the obvious)

And you don't like the fact that I quoted Oscar Wilde in regards to your position. Listen to you, you either want someone else to the work AILA (did you write AILA? did you set out your case and your complaints to AILA? did you phone them? and please don't say....I've talked to my lawyer who is part of AILA) or you prefer to take a fatalist or poor helpless us position.

I agree we should use AILA, that's why I suggested that in my post, but unlike you, I don't want to take a back seat and wait for them, I wish to pressure AILA to act now, not next month, next 6 months.

You say "the problem is the system", "The laws are not complete", "The officers are arbitrary"

These are nothing more than excuses. Plain and simple. You choose to give up. You choose to not get involved. You choose to say poor me.

You also say "Individuals won't help". Wrong

This is what this country is about, yes you can change things.

Is it easy? No. But then again, I've never seen anything worth value that was attained easily.


Oh and I don't see you as my enemy or anyone on this board for that matter. It's like if you don't vote, don't complain about the government, if you don't get involved to change the situation, keep quiet and don't complain.
 
This is ridiculous. How did you know I didn't do nothing? Sounds like you know me very well. You don't have to yell to everybody when you step on a bus hey i bought a ticket.

You don't have the right to bitch about anybody on this board. Just because people don't say a word doesn't mean they don't do a thing, or, as a matter of fact, you don't see them doing a thing. Everybody is doing their own part. You don't have the right to say 'if people are serious' cuz you don't know people are not serious.

This totally ends up with personal attacks. You only showed me your ignorance. I'm out. Just wanna cut this shit.

Peace.
 
If you missed it.....let me spell it out again for you.

My message has been this.


"If you don't want to change things.....stop complaining."


(note: change is a verb, which means active participation - not passive, wishful thinking)



What I tried to do is make it crystal clear


1) Observation:
There are a lot of posts about petitions and bitching about INS.

2) The Challenge:
Is it genuine, the bitching and petitions or not?

3) The Offer:
Extended to anyone who has complained or said they wished to get involved and sign a petition to help start something and see something through to actually collectively attack the problem.

4) Minimal response: In contrast to the vast amount of bitching.



Now you are upset. I understand that. Why? Because I called you out. Now you wish to infer you are involved - good for you. You were the one that said:

"Take a hike. Something just won't change"
"dang! idiot!"
"i would rather just keep it subtle. stirring up stuff might not
always be a good thing. that's just the way it is. if you guys
wanna go ahead and play the game, eat the rules."
"AILA is helping us already. AILA is working to fight CSC"
"Individuals won't help"
"If you wanna catch the attention, sure, you go ahead and
yell out in front of the White House. Be my guest."
"You only showed me your ignorance"

and your best quote....

"I'm out. Just wanna cut this shit."

and to that I say EXACTLY


That's my point, you were never in. Just want those people, like you that aren't in, to realize this and to stop complaining. Do what your tag line says "Happily Waiting Member". BE HAPPY, WAIT, but DON'T COMPLAIN.


Now again for clarification, I think it's great the advice you give and help out with other members here. I think for all the people posting here helping out with scripts, messages, stats etc is fantastic and encourage more of it.

But for the sake of belabouring the point, is don't complain about INS if you choose to do nothing to change them.


(again, I'm nobody's enemy, especially you the_card)
 
So what you are saying is to put up or shut up. Ok, I'm tired of the BCIS shit. I'll do whatever it takes to get some action.
 
I'm still very confused and I don't see the point why I should shut up. I simply pointed out Mr. Closer's strategy is not gonna work out, especially fax boming INS. It's just like when you are driving on the fast lane and somebody behind wanna pass you. He keeps flashing and honking at you. Will you switch lanes and let him pass?

Yeah I'm pretty sure you'll get some kind of action if you go ahead and bomb INS's fax line.
 
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