How long dependents can be out of Country?

[arizonian]

So true, but the point still remains that if you are as good as an american, you can forget about getting that job. You have to be much better and work much harder than your competitors to get their jobs. Coversely, if your kids are smart/hard working enough to get 99%, they will be looking at an entirely different level of employment/jobs.

In medicine, the best specialities/jobs are for all practical purposes, off limits to the "foreign medical graduates", no matter what your scores are and no matter how smart you are. This not so for the second generation children of aliens, who are almost at par with the locals. I am sure that applies to other occupations also.

 

[pralay]

The survey says that, who is in USA for one generation, his/her next generation kids are become typical American. Unable to compete with experts coming from other countries (Due to culture, ease of earning $ etc).

I don't think this "typical American" is very special mentality in America, but very common in every country. People get lazy when it's easy to earn money. I am from India and even our granfathers or fathers did not have to put too much effort to get a good job - like school teacher job. I guess that time they were just "typical Indian". But in our generation we learned from childhood that if we cannot get into engineering or medical degrees we are not going to get any job. That's the way we become competitive. So what I understood that basically you want to throw your kids into very same tough water where you come from and make them competitive. What would I call it? "Typical ......."?

Secondly, what "culture" are you talking about? Is American culture is bad?

I know a person who went back to Bangalore to raise his kids, in "Indian culture". He kind of puzzled that all the kids there are more Americanized (actually it's not Americanized, but MTV-ised or Hollywoodised) than "typical Americans" here we normally see in USA.

You ask Bill Gates. If H1B visa is not there, Microsoft is not there.

BTW, Bill Gates is not immigrant. And, he is a school dropout but he is still the richest person. Probably he is a product of "bad American culture", right?

 

[qwertyisback]

What a intellectual show off(or crap ). Why these super(fake) brains wasting(Bsing ) their precious time with mortal immigration community??? Go on , we are ignoring.

 

[pralay]

What a intellectual show off(or crap ). Why these super(fake) brains wasting(Bsing ) their precious time with mortal immigration community??? Go on , we are ignoring.

What a joke! When you post, it means you failed to "ignore" .
When you cannot post it right, you are ignored

 

[qwertyisback]

What a joke! When you post, it means you failed to "ignore" .
When you cannot post it right, you are ignored

Its not YOU. Extremely sorry for your confusion. But don't worry, your brain still shows some signs of activity. Keep it UP.

 

[pralay]

Its not YOU. Extremely sorry for your confusion. But don't worry, your brain still shows some signs of activity. Keep it UP.

Even if it not me, but it was still a good joke, right?

 

[arizonian]

What a intellectual show off(or crap ). Why these super(fake) brains wasting(Bsing ) their precious time with mortal immigration community??? Go on , we are ignoring.

Qwerty, this is just general talk. These are issues that face us every day.

It just feels like show off to you because an intellectual like yourself is unable to comprehend it/relate to it. (Lest you take this as a compliment, I must clarify that I am joking)

And we can see that you are "ignoring" this by posting this nonsense.

 

[Fort_User]

That's the way we become competitive. So what I understood that basically you want to throw your kids into very same tough water where you come from and make them competitive. What would I call it? "Typical ......."??

What's wrong in keeping kids in that situation? Now, Your parents are happy about your status.. right?

Had my dad settled in USA, i might have already divorced Sarah and Julie and dating Maria with my diploma in Pharmacy or High school certificate. (I am quoting based on average statistics not on individual exceptions).

Secondly, what "culture" are you talking about? Is American culture is bad?

Can you select a girl from the following list to marry.

1. American Girl
2.ABCD girl
3.Educated girl with good family back ground from your home town.

Your selection is my answer.

I know a person who went back to Bangalore to raise his kids, in "Indian culture". He kind of puzzled that all the kids there are more Americanized (actually it's not Americanized, but MTV-ised or Hollywoodised) than "typical Americans" here we normally see in USA.

I am quoted everything based on average statistics not on individual exceptions.

BTW, Bill Gates is not immigrant. And, he is a school dropout but he is still the richest person. Probably he is a product of "bad American culture", right?

I never said he is a genius Technology wise.

I have visited rich Middle East Countries. Their Governments have several Engineering colleges/Universities Across country. Driver of the student drove the car up to the class room. Another servant carried the student's cell phone and kept it on his table. So Luxury. Very good infrastructure. All the faculties are from leading Universities. But, students are miserably failing quality wise.

So, the bottom line is, as you said don't show the Luxury while studying...put them in competitive atmosphere along with good culture. This is my strong opinion.

 

[pralay]

What's wrong in keeping kids in that situation?

There is nothing wrong (it's not black and white), as long as your kids appreciate your decision to send them in India when they grow up.

Now, Your parents are happy about your status.. right?

I sounds to me only parent's (you) happiness matter, not what kids wants or whether they will appreciate in future.

Yes, my parents are happy, not because I came to USA as immigrant earning lots of $$$$, but because I am happy.

Had my dad settled in USA, i might have already divorced Sarah and Julie and dating Maria with my diploma in Pharmacy or High school certificate. (I am quoting based on average statistics not on individual exceptions).

Here is another "average statistics" - India being mainly a patriarch society, women do not enjoy that much freedom as they do in western world. Many women live without dignity, respect and not having ability to make decisions of their lives under the control of husbands and in-laws. If you have a daughter, I guess you want your daughter to live in the domain of "average statistics", right?

If you do not like a society and it's not your own society (or cannot adopt it as your own), I think you have an option to leave that society.

On the other hand, if your dad settled in USA, atleast you don't have to work (working with boss! ) to get GC or citizenship (I am assuming you are happy and satisfied without work). That would have made your life lot easier.

Can you select a girl from the following list to marry.

1. American Girl
2.ABCD girl
3.Educated girl with good family back ground from your home town.

Your selection is my answer.

Well, in reality I got married to a girl whom I met and loved. It really does not matter if she has label of "American", "ABCD" or something else. She is a "girl". I did not plan my partner in a certain mould, qualification or with certain eligibility criteria. I hope you don't too. This my answer. I would like to hear if that is your answer too (as you mentioned).

I never said he is a genius Technology wise.

Technology is not the only scale to measure "genius". Every people in society doesn't need to be Einstein to be successful member in a society (or to make that society successful). Genius is defined by achivements, success and ability to apply his/her idea/concept and get result out of it. There are many people with highter qualifications and better knowledge could not achieve anything. I would not call them "genius".

I have visited rich Middle East Countries. Their Governments have several Engineering colleges/Universities Across country. Driver of the student drove the car up to the class room. Another servant carried the student's cell phone and kept it on his table. So Luxury. Very good infrastructure. All the faculties are from leading Universities. But, students are miserably failing quality wise.

First of all, those students came from rich families. Education is extra-curricular activities for them. They will still be living in luxary if they don't go to college/university. There is no reward in society for being engineers or doctor. In India this reward is getting a good job and possibily coming to USA. In USA the reward is having higher middle class family and able buy afford home, cars and go to vacation anywhere in the word. In middle east, are those students going to get super-luxary (from luxary) if they get get quality learning in college? The answer is NO. And that's why they fail. It's not a mistake of teachers or students, but it's the way those societies are. To be frank, those kids don't need engineer/medical degrees. They go to college because it's timepass for their youth-life (when their parents are managing the businesses). I guess 10th grade education, able to read and learn certain languages (like English) and a few courses in Economics (so that they can manage their parent's business better in future) - that's all they need.

So, the bottom line is, as you said don't show the Luxury while studying...put them in competitive atmosphere along with good culture. This is my strong opinion.

Define luxary. Cellphone, car? Oh, nowadays those things are affordable for students in India too - as long their parents are rich. Competitiveness? There India has an edge in certain colleges (not all). It has no relation with luxary. But it is due to lack of jobs in India and lack of of enough higher-education opportunities in India. Keep in mind, IITs and other good engineering colleges can take only a small fraction of aspiring students compare to total number of students in India. It's lots tougher to get admission in IIM or IIT than in MIT or Harvard.

 

[arizonian]

You say: "Can you select a girl from the following list to marry.

1. American Girl
2.ABCD girl
3.Educated girl with good family back ground from your home town.

Your selection is my answer."


Well, you want a girl from your home town. And that is understandable. But why would someone else want a girl from your home town. Let us say someone born and brought up in UK, UAE, Russia or USA. They would never want a girl from your home town. They would prefer girls from their home towns to the one from your home town.

Get the point?

So this argument does not fly.

 

[qwertyisback]

Pluralis Majestatis or schizophrenia?

I know, I know, "we" is alien word for you in your tiny world. I can recommend few members as partners for your rat hole, but still considering their mental growth...but anyway, atleast somebody than nobody ... RIGHT??

 

[qwertyisback]

You say: "Can you select a girl from the following list to marry.

1. American Girl
2.ABCD girl
3.Educated girl with good family back ground from your home town.

Your selection is my answer."


Well, you want a girl from your home town. And that is understandable. But why would someone else want a girl from your home town. Let us say someone born and brought up in UK, UAE, Russia or USA. They would never want a girl from your home town. They would prefer girls from their home towns to the one from your home town.

Get the point?

So this argument does not fly.

Excuse me, any cute girl works for me

 

[ma21]

In medicine, the best specialities/jobs are for all practical purposes, off limits to the "foreign medical graduates", no matter what your scores are and no matter how smart you are. This not so for the second generation children of aliens, who are almost at par with the locals. I am sure that applies to other occupations also.

I would completely disagree with you on that. I was also under the same impression, but when i had the need to see specialists, i was so surprized that a very few of them were native-born Americans. There were mostly from the middle east and europe. Suprisingly very few Asians. It could be cause of the area I live in (Chicago), but I am talking here of multiple hospitals and even prestegious ones like UCH

 

[hipka]

I would completely disagree with you on that. I was also under the same impression, but when i had the need to see specialists, i was so surprized that a very few of them were native-born Americans. There were mostly from the middle east and europe. Suprisingly very few Asians. It could be cause of the area I live in (Chicago), but I am talking here of multiple hospitals and even prestegious ones like UCH

I totally agree with ma21, I have seen several indians in top specialist positions. Local americans simply don't want these positions and the reason is pretty clear. You need to study and suffer for at least 15 years in medical colleges and hospitals to get these positions. The money they make is about $100K more than an engineer but you have already lost 15 years. Foreingers who come here as doctors have no choice but to pursue the field and thats why they stick on to it.

Overall I feel that the gap between western and eastern cultures is too great. Asians cannot simply come to the US and feel a part of the society here. Its simply impossible.

 

[arizonian]

I would completely disagree with you on that. I was also under the same impression, but when i had the need to see specialists, i was so surprized that a very few of them were native-born Americans. There were mostly from the middle east and europe. Suprisingly very few Asians. It could be cause of the area I live in (Chicago), but I am talking here of multiple hospitals and even prestegious ones like UCH

This is not something that can be argued about. It is a fact. And you will see it once you open your eyes.

I am a physician myself, and have been so here for quite for some time. Agreed that many foreigners are able to do well here despite the inequalities, but the fact remains that the inequalities are there.

In other words, they have had to be much smarter and hard working than their local colleagues to reach the same position.

I am sure that it is not very different in your field.

 

[arizonian]

I totally agree with ma21, I have seen several indians in top specialist positions. Local americans simply don't want these positions and the reason is pretty clear. You need to study and suffer for at least 15 years in medical colleges and hospitals to get these positions. The money they make is about $100K more than an engineer but you have already lost 15 years. Foreingers who come here as doctors have no choice but to pursue the field and thats why they stick on to it.

Overall I feel that the gap between western and eastern cultures is too great. Asians cannot simply come to the US and feel a part of the society here. Its simply impossible.

You are right in that although the physicians make quite a bit more, it takes more time and effort to get to that point. You are also right that the locals try to stay away from the difficult specialities like internal medicine, where the demands of the job are quite high, and the returns relatively low. Specialities like ophthalmology and dermatology are out of bounds for foreigners except the very few exceptionally smart and lucky ones.

However, you have to agree with me that this is the only country in the world that welcomes foreigners with open arms, and you have a chance in making a good life for yourself if you are smart and hard working. And we must be grateful and appreciative of that.

I disagree that the culture gap is too great and that we cannot feel a part of the society. Most of us who come here, though we miss our home and relatives, feel quite at home here. I do at least.

 

[ma21]

You are right in that although the physicians make quite a bit more, it takes more time and effort to get to that point. You are also right that the locals try to stay away from the difficult specialities like internal medicine, where the demands of the job are quite high, and the returns relatively low. Specialities like ophthalmology and dermatology are out of bounds for foreigners except the very few exceptionally smart and lucky ones.

BTW: I am not talking of specialities like Internal medicine, Dermatology and Opthalmology. I am talking of specialities like pedriatic cardiology, surgery.
I agree that it is always more difficult for foreign-born to reach the same level a native-born, and I am talking about Chicago and vicinity. That has been my experience.

 

[arizonian]

BTW: I am not talking of specialities like Internal medicine, Dermatology and Opthalmology. I am talking of specialities like pedriatic cardiology, surgery.
I agree that it is always more difficult for foreign-born to reach the same level a native-born, and I am talking about Chicago and vicinity. That has been my experience.

You are saying what I am saying.

I am aware, and have said that there are many foreigners (indians and non Indians) who have done well for themselves here (Chicago and vicinity amongst other places). As I have said, US is truly the land of oppurtunity, where outsiders have a chance if they are smart and hardworking.

But if you go to the beginning of the thread, the question is whether someone should send his children abroad for education. That is what we are discussing.

The reality is that for a given level of intelligence and hard work, one stands a much better chance of getting to a particular point in his/her career in the US when compared to an outsider.

 

[pralay]

Overall I feel that the gap between western and eastern cultures is too great. Asians cannot simply come to the US and feel a part of the society here. Its simply impossible.

It cuts both way. There are regions/states where it's difficult for a foreigners to be part of society - especially in many mid-western states. But there are ample instances where foreigners refuse to be part of American society (because they feel Americans societies do not have culture, or they do not have traditions, or they do not have good foods, or they do not have long history...blah blah blah). It's more comforting to live within their own community (coming from same area, same language, same food) than making effort to understand or be part other cultures.

And this is not a clash between Asian and Western cultures. There are many Europeans people (some of them 2nd generation immigrants) who prefer to live within their own communities. Same way, in many cases many Chinese do not get along with Philipinos or Japanese or other parts of China. Many North Indians do not get along with South Indians (in fact they make fun of each other's accents, traditions, culture, body language or behaviors).

Same way, when I lived in Bangalore there are many engineers who came from other states did not feel Karnataka as their own state or did not bother to understand the local cultures. On the contrary they prefer to live in a typical "implanted" cosmopolitan society heavily influenced by western cultures (or pseudo-western culture). Ironically there the local people and many local cultural movement groups blame "western culture" (and their actions include vandalizing KFC, Pizza Hut or treating non-Kannadiga customers rudely in shops). So it seems no matter where you go there is always good reason to blame western culture.

 

[hipka]

However, you have to agree with me that this is the only country in the world that welcomes foreigners with open arms, and you have a chance in making a good life for yourself if you are smart and hard working. And we must be grateful and appreciative of that.

Assuming you are a desi doc,I can understand that statement. Reasons are that docs. have a hopeless future in india(and many other countries) and secondly docs. do not know what a layoff is. Only if you suffer a job change during your GC process can you understand that the whole immigration process is meant to provide cheap labor to the country and then maybe your idea of welcoming foreigners with open arms will change. You can make a good life here even if you are dumb and lazy local. Only immigrants have to be smart and hard working to make a good life.

I disagree that the culture gap is too great and that we cannot feel a part of the society. Most of us who come here, though we miss our home and relatives, feel quite at home here. I do at least.

Right and how many friends do you have outside your community? Has anyone told you that you are welcome in the US other than the papers/TV etc..? If you are a doc. do this, appear in front of a patient with a local sounding name. Observe his reaction when he finds out you are an immigrant. Your training in psychology will help you figure out how welcome you are!