Happy Independence day (in advance)
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pingpong02, that is where the Indian laws favor the minority. Here is my simple rule, if the Govt. funds a minority institution they should have the same rules as other institutes. But na, you have all these minorities making hue and cry saying that it is unfair though these minority institutes reserve a big % of their seats for themselves.
frantic,
yes, I hear what you are saying! But, it still doesn't make sense to call Islam a fundamentalist religion because out of 100 criminals 80 were islamic! There could be something else that underlies this seemingly obvious cause-effect relationship.
Is any of the islamic nations as educated as most other countries? It is the illiteracy of the masses that some fanatics hijack for their own personal agenda. Consider Turkey for example. It is more educated than most islamic countries and it has relatively less problems.
yes, I hear what you are saying! But, it still doesn't make sense to call Islam a fundamentalist religion because out of 100 criminals 80 were islamic! There could be something else that underlies this seemingly obvious cause-effect relationship.
Is any of the islamic nations as educated as most other countries? It is the illiteracy of the masses that some fanatics hijack for their own personal agenda. Consider Turkey for example. It is more educated than most islamic countries and it has relatively less problems.
The root cause of all the problems (in india) is poor legislations. We should have strong laws (as we see in USA) to control Politicians, Police , Corrrupt people, non-uniform civil code, caste based reservations, unchecked conversions(induced by money and bad portrayal of Hinduism) etc. We should have a legislation that nobody should have more than 2 children. The excess population is hurting the country.
Guys who are talking about caste system, lets be realistic here, how many do you know have gone out of their way to marry another caste person? How many times have you seen people even in the US being friendly with the same caste people?
jst2mess, if it is illiteracy how come so many hindus, which has a fairly illiterate population are not terrorists?
jst2mess, if it is illiteracy how come so many hindus, which has a fairly illiterate population are not terrorists?
pingpong02
Registered Users (C)
Hi frantic,
I do not agree when you say Hinduism is closed. The problem is people have abused it.
With respect to Yesudas not being allowed the temple, I do not think it the fault of Hinduism or Hindu gods.
Finally why would someone visit a temple.
To Pray god.
And as per Hinduism people do not require to go to the temple.
people can pray wherever they want, whoever they want.
Finally the decision is made by the gods not the priests.
No force can stop the relationship between atma and paramaatma.
Don't you know the story of prahalaada and Hiranyakasap.
Inspite of Hiranyakasap preventing prahalaada praying god with all his obstacles, prahalaada prevailed at the end due to his devotion.
if Yesudas's devotion is good and genuine he will be blessed by the god not matter whether he is allowed into the temple or not.
Thanks
I do not agree when you say Hinduism is closed. The problem is people have abused it.
With respect to Yesudas not being allowed the temple, I do not think it the fault of Hinduism or Hindu gods.
Finally why would someone visit a temple.
To Pray god.
And as per Hinduism people do not require to go to the temple.
people can pray wherever they want, whoever they want.
Finally the decision is made by the gods not the priests.
No force can stop the relationship between atma and paramaatma.
Don't you know the story of prahalaada and Hiranyakasap.
Inspite of Hiranyakasap preventing prahalaada praying god with all his obstacles, prahalaada prevailed at the end due to his devotion.
if Yesudas's devotion is good and genuine he will be blessed by the god not matter whether he is allowed into the temple or not.
Thanks
dsatish,
Yes, but can't compel people to have less than 2 children (actually even with 1 the population will be on the increase for a few decades). If you do, our country stops being a free, democratic nation!
You pull one string in, the other goes out of whack!!
All could be done is to "force" (coax actually) the people to get educated. Once educated, people will have a broader outlook on life and will weigh the pros and cons of having a large family.
frantic,
you can not compare person to person! Compare the proportion of educated to uneducated in say Iraq/Iran to that in India!!!!
In India, you have educated elite to steer the illiterates from violence. The stress is on "educated" and not "hindu elites". And, don't be so sure that illiterate hindus are cows in nature! The people who razed the mosque down (educated idiots and illiterates) are as much terrorists as the people who rammed the planes into buildings!
Yes, but can't compel people to have less than 2 children (actually even with 1 the population will be on the increase for a few decades). If you do, our country stops being a free, democratic nation!
You pull one string in, the other goes out of whack!!
All could be done is to "force" (coax actually) the people to get educated. Once educated, people will have a broader outlook on life and will weigh the pros and cons of having a large family.
frantic,
you can not compare person to person! Compare the proportion of educated to uneducated in say Iraq/Iran to that in India!!!!
In India, you have educated elite to steer the illiterates from violence. The stress is on "educated" and not "hindu elites". And, don't be so sure that illiterate hindus are cows in nature! The people who razed the mosque down (educated idiots and illiterates) are as much terrorists as the people who rammed the planes into buildings!
Pardon my ignorance....
Do most of the Inidian immigrants in US belong to the higher castes? I read a lot about your caste system in July (or June) release of National Geographic and can't believe that anyone from the lowest castes (NG calls them "untouchables") could find enough money to travel abroad.
How come the caste system is still supported? How can a country be truly democratic when people are discriminated based on their birth?
Thanks for interesting posts. I learned more about your history and culture today than ever before. Didn't know about chess being invented in India. How come there are no world champions from India (more like from Russia or Europe)?
Do most of the Inidian immigrants in US belong to the higher castes? I read a lot about your caste system in July (or June) release of National Geographic and can't believe that anyone from the lowest castes (NG calls them "untouchables") could find enough money to travel abroad.
How come the caste system is still supported? How can a country be truly democratic when people are discriminated based on their birth?
Thanks for interesting posts. I learned more about your history and culture today than ever before. Didn't know about chess being invented in India. How come there are no world champions from India (more like from Russia or Europe)?
udacha,
India is a mini universe. That's why, no one can ever say anything correctly about India . people in different parts of india speak different languages, they have different religions in different regions, different skin colors, different food habits, blah blah blah ...... That's the reason you see so much discussion about different regions and different castes and different languages. Why this divergence ? The reason is simple : Historically, india is the most favoured destination for the human race. People from all parts of world came and settled there. There came the castes (though some others have different theories). The degree of freedom you find in India, you will not find anywhere else in this world. This excessive freedom (or lack of willingness to force people towards doing something) results in some of the problems we see these days.
The educated people in india do not practice caste system any more. Only uneducated people in rrural areas (not towns and cities) still practice it. But then it's not as bad as they portray it in western media. Ultimately, no lower caste person will face any harassment if he has money. Only the poor people are always the victims.
Regarding chess, haven't you heard of Vishwanadhan Anand ? He is among the top two players in the world for the past 6 or 7 years.
India is a mini universe. That's why, no one can ever say anything correctly about India . people in different parts of india speak different languages, they have different religions in different regions, different skin colors, different food habits, blah blah blah ...... That's the reason you see so much discussion about different regions and different castes and different languages. Why this divergence ? The reason is simple : Historically, india is the most favoured destination for the human race. People from all parts of world came and settled there. There came the castes (though some others have different theories). The degree of freedom you find in India, you will not find anywhere else in this world. This excessive freedom (or lack of willingness to force people towards doing something) results in some of the problems we see these days.
The educated people in india do not practice caste system any more. Only uneducated people in rrural areas (not towns and cities) still practice it. But then it's not as bad as they portray it in western media. Ultimately, no lower caste person will face any harassment if he has money. Only the poor people are always the victims.
Regarding chess, haven't you heard of Vishwanadhan Anand ? He is among the top two players in the world for the past 6 or 7 years.
Udacha6,
A variation of chess is very much an Indian game that existed many thousands of years ago. Even if you assume chess was invented in India, I don't understand why you would expect only Indians to be good at it!
But, coming to your question about the absence of world chess champions from India ... I guess you have never heard of Grand Master Anand!
The caste system was supposed to have originated based on the occupation of the people (again.. thousands of years ago). Broad categories were the ruling class, scholars, priests, warriors, merchants etc. People who were at the bottom of this chart are the so called "untouchables" today. Priests, obviously, elevated themselves to the highest position. This somehow continued to the present day.
However, since independence, to discriminate against or even call someone an untouchable will land you in prison quite immediately. At the time of independence, reservation at various levels were made available for these disadvantaged people with the thought that it would be phased out slowly. But, successive generations of corrupt politicians kept the reservation around just for a favourable vote bank.
That said ... I don't understand your correlation between caste systems and a country being democratic!! The affirmative action that is found in US and probably other european countries is similar to the reservation that exists for various castes which are deemed disadvantaged. Caste system is also similar to racism which is quite prevalent in US and most european countries. In US, discrimination against the blacks (the skin colour I guess gets decided at birth too.. or even before that) continued well into the 1960s (almost 200 years after the creation of the "DEMOCRATIC" nation) and yet you don't question its status as the most vibrant democratic country in the world. Wonder why?!
A variation of chess is very much an Indian game that existed many thousands of years ago. Even if you assume chess was invented in India, I don't understand why you would expect only Indians to be good at it!
But, coming to your question about the absence of world chess champions from India ... I guess you have never heard of Grand Master Anand!
The caste system was supposed to have originated based on the occupation of the people (again.. thousands of years ago). Broad categories were the ruling class, scholars, priests, warriors, merchants etc. People who were at the bottom of this chart are the so called "untouchables" today. Priests, obviously, elevated themselves to the highest position. This somehow continued to the present day.
However, since independence, to discriminate against or even call someone an untouchable will land you in prison quite immediately. At the time of independence, reservation at various levels were made available for these disadvantaged people with the thought that it would be phased out slowly. But, successive generations of corrupt politicians kept the reservation around just for a favourable vote bank.
That said ... I don't understand your correlation between caste systems and a country being democratic!! The affirmative action that is found in US and probably other european countries is similar to the reservation that exists for various castes which are deemed disadvantaged. Caste system is also similar to racism which is quite prevalent in US and most european countries. In US, discrimination against the blacks (the skin colour I guess gets decided at birth too.. or even before that) continued well into the 1960s (almost 200 years after the creation of the "DEMOCRATIC" nation) and yet you don't question its status as the most vibrant democratic country in the world. Wonder why?!
waytoolong
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Yes, so do most politicians, doctors, lawyers, etc. The most lucrative professions are dominated by the previleged and they maintain the status quo
The biggest mistake NG made is that
1) The caste system (institutionalized rascism) is created by the aryan society. The "untouchables" are mainly aboriginal people of the subcontinent who are outside the aryan society. They are treated (yes, even today) worse than animals.
2) Travelling abroad is not quite the concern when you have a tough time finding stuff to feed your family with - you could be lynched for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. So, coming to America is not on the mind of a lot of folks.
because it is advantageous to a lot of people to maintain the status quo. why is it so tough to get a lucrative job on wall street ? (I don't mean the techie crap - I mean the really lucrative stuff).
I think you need to do some research on Vishwanathan Anand. He is a world champ but doesn't get a western press' media coverage for having the wrong tint -
and you thought discrimination is only in India ?pingpong02
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pingpong02
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And this is the financial Capital of India
http://www.outlookindia.com/full.asp?fodname=20030818&fname=FMumbai+Chawl&sid=1
http://www.outlookindia.com/full.asp?fodname=20030818&fname=FMumbai+Chawl&sid=1
waytoolong
Registered Users (C)
Daaaaaammmmmnnnnn !!! pingpong02 - you are as pissed off a SOB as I am ....
heck even our signatures are similarly self-deprecating ....
heck even our signatures are similarly self-deprecating ....
pingpong02
Registered Users (C)
On the same lines let's hope we both get approved sooooon!!!
It is very impressive to see how many Indians have made something out of themselves in US - doctors, scientists etc. I don't think any European nation can say the same. But how about your own country? Is there any way all this potential and knowledge can be used to revive your home economy? I've been to India when I was little and was impressed with the multi-thousand-year architecture and culture but unfortunately the thing I remembered most was that my mom had to disinfect most of the food we bought with some special chemicals. Probably it was an overkill and the food was really safe but the memory of apples smelling like Clorox still enters my mind. I know it is difficult for one person to rebuild an economy of the whole country, but for thousands of well-off Indian immigrants it may not present such a problem. Again I may be ignorant about the situation in India and threfore I appologize if any of my assumptions here are wrong.
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