greeting from u.s.-canada border
- Thread starter windywd
- Start date
surprise77
Registered Users (C)
Can you tell us your story in details? Where were you going and what happend to you? Thanks.
Lola,
This is what happened:
On my way back, the officer took my RTD and punched several numbers into his computer. Literally, I saw his eyes lighten up.... "Sir, you have to go with me..."
"'OK"
'What is the purpose of your trip to canada?'
'landing'
......(other stupid questions)
'our records showed that you used another document entering canada on MMDDYYYY."
'Huh? No, I did not"
"yes, you did. computers don't lie"
"but I really did not" (I was thinking what did I do on that day.... oh, that is next day in canada, I went straight to canadian immigration office for landing. in the office I told them that both NP and RTD are to be expired within one year... the canadian guy told me I can have my NP stamped and later use RTD (or new RTD) to enter canada... )
"sir, you are risking to have your PR revoked.... according to INA, concealing material fact to us is an inadmissible offense."
knowing what happened... "but sir, can you tell me when was my second recent time entered canada?
"it is MMDDYYY" he smiled, proud of their 'system'
"sir, that is ONE DAY BEFORE, so where you think I went that I could go back round-trip within 24 hours?"
long pause..
I then explained to him that canadians stamped my NP, so probably it was entered into 'system'. I showed him my NP and Canadian PR paper.
"ok, then, welcome back, please take biometrics for further reference." unhappy....................
This is what happened:
On my way back, the officer took my RTD and punched several numbers into his computer. Literally, I saw his eyes lighten up.... "Sir, you have to go with me..."
"'OK"
'What is the purpose of your trip to canada?'
'landing'
......(other stupid questions)
'our records showed that you used another document entering canada on MMDDYYYY."
'Huh? No, I did not"
"yes, you did. computers don't lie"
"but I really did not" (I was thinking what did I do on that day.... oh, that is next day in canada, I went straight to canadian immigration office for landing. in the office I told them that both NP and RTD are to be expired within one year... the canadian guy told me I can have my NP stamped and later use RTD (or new RTD) to enter canada... )
"sir, you are risking to have your PR revoked.... according to INA, concealing material fact to us is an inadmissible offense."
knowing what happened... "but sir, can you tell me when was my second recent time entered canada?
"it is MMDDYYY" he smiled, proud of their 'system'
"sir, that is ONE DAY BEFORE, so where you think I went that I could go back round-trip within 24 hours?"
long pause..
I then explained to him that canadians stamped my NP, so probably it was entered into 'system'. I showed him my NP and Canadian PR paper.
"ok, then, welcome back, please take biometrics for further reference." unhappy....................
Lazerthegreat
Registered Users (C)
windywd said:
windywd! which port of entry were you entering from? by air or road?
Ok windywd,
Now I am confused.... I don't understand how CIS could have gotten the information that you had landed in Canada. I don't think their immigration records are linked.
I do believe however that Candian Immigration Officer (IO) entered your NP information along with your US A# into their border-crossing database (which is shared by USA & Canada). This would explain why the CIS officer's eyes 'lit' up when he entered your A# into the system. The fact that he didn't know why you entered Canada further shows that he didn't know you had 'landed'.
What i am confused about is what CIS officer was accusing you about. Was he concerned about the fact that you landed in Canada and are now a PR in two countries? Or was he more concerned about the fact that you used your national passport to travel (enter Canada)?
I know its too late to tell you this, but you could have avoided all of this by using your RTD to land. This way, CIS would only have had a record of your 'visit' into Canada without knowing you had landed.
Are they sending you in for further biometrics? If so, do you know if they put you under some kind of deportation proceedings or intent to abadon PR status in USA? Did CIS officer give you any paperwork?
Sorry to ask you all this information, but I think its important you stay on top of this so you aren't confronted with an issue in the future.
Regards.
Now I am confused.... I don't understand how CIS could have gotten the information that you had landed in Canada. I don't think their immigration records are linked.
I do believe however that Candian Immigration Officer (IO) entered your NP information along with your US A# into their border-crossing database (which is shared by USA & Canada). This would explain why the CIS officer's eyes 'lit' up when he entered your A# into the system. The fact that he didn't know why you entered Canada further shows that he didn't know you had 'landed'.
What i am confused about is what CIS officer was accusing you about. Was he concerned about the fact that you landed in Canada and are now a PR in two countries? Or was he more concerned about the fact that you used your national passport to travel (enter Canada)?
I know its too late to tell you this, but you could have avoided all of this by using your RTD to land. This way, CIS would only have had a record of your 'visit' into Canada without knowing you had landed.
Are they sending you in for further biometrics? If so, do you know if they put you under some kind of deportation proceedings or intent to abadon PR status in USA? Did CIS officer give you any paperwork?
Sorry to ask you all this information, but I think its important you stay on top of this so you aren't confronted with an issue in the future.
Regards.
Lola,
there is no provision that you can have only one permanent residence.
they are concerned about falsified passports, especially you are entering canada and driving to u.s.
sorry that i used the "biometrics", that is only a fingureprinting thing, and they want to make sure i was the holder of RTD. the officer later told me that they are chasing for document fraud. one person, two travel documents, multiple entries to canada, always trigger questions.
I don't think I will get any trouble.
there is no provision that you can have only one permanent residence.
they are concerned about falsified passports, especially you are entering canada and driving to u.s.
sorry that i used the "biometrics", that is only a fingureprinting thing, and they want to make sure i was the holder of RTD. the officer later told me that they are chasing for document fraud. one person, two travel documents, multiple entries to canada, always trigger questions.
I don't think I will get any trouble.
wantmygcnow
Volunteer Moderator
windywd said:
Windwy, Fair enough that you can have multiple PR's however how do you plan to maintain both PR's? Everytime you enter U.S or CAnada and leave Canada, it will be noted so what is the point of having a Canadian PR when you can't succesfully become a canadian citizen?
How can one maintain PR for both countries without getting in trouble legally?
Lazerthegreat
Registered Users (C)
windywd said:
Windy! now news yet....
You can't even imagine how frustrating it is..but anyway!!Ok here's the deal:
First lets examine the reason why guy's eyes "lit up". Windy was handing him over RTD to return back and he showed on his border crossing database that windy had previously used NP to cross border. Obviously officer did NOT have any idea on what status windy has crossed border. (Canadians do NOT require visa on GC). So that proves a point: Officer was concerned about windy using 2 documents for single trip not his becoming PR of Canada (as a matter of fact if windy hadn't brought up his NP on canadian side and just would have stuck with RTD, the officer would have never known that windy has now PR of Canada also)...
Now one issue remains.... I thought that while traveling by road, you just have to flash your GC in front of canadian immigration and they let you go. But I think now they enter into database... I mean windy's trip shows that... however my uncle went to canada on GC and he just flashed it in front of Canadian officer. This might have changed. Now when you are coming back to the US under this scenario, there is no way for US immigration to know what you originally carried with you (RTD or NP). So they would just let you in... My understanding was that you do not need a hardcore document (RTD, AP, NP) to travel to Canada.... you just take your GC and on your way back, CIS swipes GC for validity and thats it... It might be changing now...
There is a guy by name of "Kaoticfury" on this forum who just got GC and he wanted to travel to canada by road. Let me ask him and I will let you guys know what happened to him...
Windy! quite frankly you should talk to your lawyer about it and make sure everything is Ok IF you want to pursue citizenship in this country.... I bet you that officer has made notes on your GC file that this guy has now canadian PR and watch his visits to canada and anywhere else (cuz GC requirement is to stay in US and do not make long trips...not even Canada.you are legally out of US while in Canada..)
I would suggest plz check and keep records of all your trips if you want to pursue US citizenship..
any comments (serious only) on above discussion are welcome.
Lazer -
You hit every point I made earlier... Excellent! I think the problem was created by the national passport. When you enter canada with a passport/travel document, they enter the passport number and associate this with your A#. This is how CIS knew windy entered Canada not using your RTD. Furthermore windy complicated matters by having is RTD number included in the mix. It looked like he was using 2 travel documents at the same time - trying to 'cheat' the system.
I just came back from Canada last month and here is my experience. When entering with a GC, Canadian IO's can either enter your A# (from the GC) into their database to verify validity or wave you thru without entering anything into the system. Both these scenarios have happened to me this year.
On your way back, the CIS IO's do the same: they either swipe your card or enter the A# in the system to check validity, or they look at the card and wave you thru. Both these scenarios have happened to me as well. In fact, on one of these occasions, I was selected for a random computercheck in which my vehicle was searched - this took about 3 mins as was relatively painless.
Since no passort numbers are involved with crossing using the plastic card, the only thing entered into the database (if something is entered at all) is your A# and your name, and the fact that you are a USA PR.
Hopefully Kaoticfury will colaborate with his border-crossing experience. In either case, it wouldn't hurt any of us to order our immigration records from CIS using the Privacy Act. Its always good to know what is in the system. I know someone has had a successful experience with this and would like to know how to go about doing it. And how long it takes.
Regards.
You hit every point I made earlier... Excellent! I think the problem was created by the national passport. When you enter canada with a passport/travel document, they enter the passport number and associate this with your A#. This is how CIS knew windy entered Canada not using your RTD. Furthermore windy complicated matters by having is RTD number included in the mix. It looked like he was using 2 travel documents at the same time - trying to 'cheat' the system.
I just came back from Canada last month and here is my experience. When entering with a GC, Canadian IO's can either enter your A# (from the GC) into their database to verify validity or wave you thru without entering anything into the system. Both these scenarios have happened to me this year.
On your way back, the CIS IO's do the same: they either swipe your card or enter the A# in the system to check validity, or they look at the card and wave you thru. Both these scenarios have happened to me as well. In fact, on one of these occasions, I was selected for a random computercheck in which my vehicle was searched - this took about 3 mins as was relatively painless.
Since no passort numbers are involved with crossing using the plastic card, the only thing entered into the database (if something is entered at all) is your A# and your name, and the fact that you are a USA PR.
Hopefully Kaoticfury will colaborate with his border-crossing experience. In either case, it wouldn't hurt any of us to order our immigration records from CIS using the Privacy Act. Its always good to know what is in the system. I know someone has had a successful experience with this and would like to know how to go about doing it. And how long it takes.
Regards.
wantmygcnow said:
mr. havemygc (this is your new 'unofficial' name)
I believe PRs of Canada are allowed to stay out of Canada 3 years out of every 5 years. And the USA allows you to stay out for up to 6 months on every trip. So technically windy has until Sept. 2008 to decide if he's moving to Canada or not.
So I don't know how he plans on maintaining both - but I'm sure its been done before.
surprise77
Registered Users (C)
I am planing to immigrate to Canada too as my friend suggested. My question is:
1 Will I have the same troule if I use My NP to do the landing but witout showing Canadian immgriation officer my US GC so they won't know my Alien number?
2 Will it be safe to come back to US from Mexico after landing Canada?
Thank you.
1
Will I have the same troule if I use My NP to do the landing but witout showing Canadian immgriation officer my US GC so they won't know my Alien number?2
Will it be safe to come back to US from Mexico after landing Canada?Thank you.
surprise77 said:I am planing to immigrate to Canada too as my friend suggested. My question is:
1
2
Thank you.
The Canadian Consulate may already have your A# on file since you had to have mentioned your status in the US to apply for landing. If they (CIC) have no idea of your status in the USA then go ahead and use your NP to land. Then use your GC to come back to the USA.
This way neither country will know what your status is in the other country. I wish you lots of luck.
qsheba said:
You are correct. You do NOT need an RTD, passport, or visa to visit canada if you are crossing by land in a private vehicle. If you are traveling via a commercial method, like bus, train or plane you will need a travel document or passport in addition to your GC. GC holders are always exempt from requiring a visa.
In this discussion we are talking about folks who have Canadian PR status in addition to the USA PR status.
hampton8844
Registered Users (C)
Danger
I want to caution people who while holding only an American green card apply for Canadian permanent residence. You are playing with fire. I am attaching a circuit court decision affirming the INS's revocation of a PR's status for his ties to Canada. And I can assure you that many similar cases are resolved unfavourably against aliens within the Immigration Court system (and are therefore unpublished).
Be careful and plan accordingly.
Take care.
I want to caution people who while holding only an American green card apply for Canadian permanent residence. You are playing with fire. I am attaching a circuit court decision affirming the INS's revocation of a PR's status for his ties to Canada. And I can assure you that many similar cases are resolved unfavourably against aliens within the Immigration Court system (and are therefore unpublished).
Be careful and plan accordingly.
Take care.
Last edited by a moderator:
wantmygcnow
Volunteer Moderator
hampton8844 said:
I think as soon as you land in canada to become a PR, you are in trouble with U.S Imimgration. Its good that lawyers tell you there is "nothing in the law code" but lawyers say lots of things that are not true so do not trust them. The first thing a lawyer does is when he takes your case is to make sure he write "this agreement doesn't mean your case will be approved"...Enough said.
Windywd, If iwas you, I would send canadian embasy your PR and tell them you have abanadoned it and make sure you do get it in writing. As hampton said its playng with fire.