For all Ye H1B haters

P

patienceGC

Registered Users (C)
and Short-term thinkers, read the article in Business2.0 about the labor market in the future. There is a link from the CNN site. The b2.0 site requires membership. So if you are really interested and dont want to spend money, read it a local library. Its pretty inciteful and has a lot of info that most people say is true.
 
Now how complicated is that to read one single article..

Goto CNN site
Then goto Business2.0
Register to become a member
Pay $$$ to read the article

PatienceGC ... I hope you dont work this way
 
Re: Or you can read it from this CSC post

Originally posted by davh
http://boards.immigrationportal.com/showthread.php?threadid=95959
Click to expand...

You do understand such replication can cause copyrights issues for this site dont you?

As for the previous post (gracom), I went there from CNN website. I didnt know the exact website name for the Business2.0 website. So I suggested to go to Cnn and go form there. I am really sorry if it was "Complicated" for some of you mentally challenged people or it is too tiring to perform a couple of more mouseclicks than neccessary. I guess I should copy and paste the stuff from the other website so that people can read it from this website without having to go thru the complicated tasks of mouse clicks.

davh: you might also want to cut paste the info from the other board because some of the "efficient" workers think that clicking on your post is complicated and tiring!
 
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you might also want to cut paste the info from the other board because some of the "efficient" workers think that clicking on your post is complicated and tiring


Hmmm....touchy on the "efficiency" subject are you?
 
No, you guys should wake up rather than listening to some crackhead author touting labor shortage in the future. There is no labor shortage, period.

First of all, all those baby boomers CAN NOT afford to retire because they have lost all their retirement fund in the stock market, and likes of Worldcom, Enron, etc.

Second of all, had he heard of technology advancement and improvement in productivity? We will need less and less human intervention in the future. McDonalds is testing out robots to flip burgers.

And the last but not the least, had he heard about outsourcing? There are over ten BILLION people in India and China alone and any labor shortage can be easily solved by outsourcing those positions.

I would like to know what the auther was smoking when he wrote the article. He must be feeling "HIGH". :D
 
Originally posted by green_gator

There are over ten BILLION people in India and China alone and any labor shortage can be easily solved by outsourcing those positions.
Click to expand...

Last time I checked the combined Sino-Indian population was around 2 billion. I suppose some folks were getting very busy while I was napping :D :D :D
 
Oops, I meant two billion but who is counting anyway?:D

Seriously, how can you guys fall for a well crafted article brought to you by big business "who want to outsource your job tomorrow". They are telling you that it is okay your job being outsourced right now but wait in two years there will be a labor shortage and we (big business) will have to beg you to come back to work for us and you can party like 1999 again!

Sure, I will buy that.:D
 
my 2 cents why Outsourcing will fail unless the company that supports the outsourced client with high qualified people who have worked in US for atleast couple of years.

The Developer needs to

-- understand the working culture in US. Many people still have the local work culture. Like you send a email they do not acknowledge that they received the email leave about responding. The developer may be really working on the problem but that doesn't matter. what's important is to engage the client and keep the client informed and in good humor.

-- understand that client is god. you change for the client not the otherway around. I have personal experience with this. I was supposed to talk to the developer in a country which is 12 hours away from here (time diff). Now he asks me to come to the office at 6:00 or 7:00 AM to talk to him as 9:00 AM is too late for him. I spoke to him but I could have sent a nasty email to his manger and could have easily put him in trouble. Also in another case the developer is trying to reach me on a long weekend. They have little knowledge about working hours and holidays in this country.

-- Communication skills. Talking in english does not mean they have good communication.

-- Puntuality. one of the developer has scheduled a call twice and 7:00 AM here and did not showup. I was told is on leave. But if the person goes on leave either it has to be communicated in advance or they need to have a replacement. I have escalated to their manager who worked in US for couple of years. The manger appologized.

The above are a few examples which will surely lead to fustration of the client. As an asian if I can get fustrated, as an American the ......

Indians should be very carefull in not getting too carried away with this outsourcing.

It's in its infancy stage.. Unless all such mistakes are avoided/corrected , they will face competition from other countries and backlash from US..

thanks
 
pingpong02, I couldn't agree with your more.

I am on my third "doomed" outsourcing projects and I keep a paper trail of every communications going on between me and the offshore outsourcer. I write a formal review for every design document and forward copies to my manager, directors, and VPs. I have to make sure that when the shit hits the fan, which it will, I'll have my ass covered. :D

But the problem with offshore outsourcing is that you will NEVER hear about a failed project on record, because no senior management will admit they are wrong. So the failed project is sweaped under the rug and we in house developers have to redo the whole thing. In the end, the project took three times longer and ten times more costly, but the CEO and the board will be told what a great success the outsourced project has been.

The coverup will go on forever and the outsourcing will go on too.
 
Outsourcing is not all very glamorous. I have heard many companies who tried outsourcing but miserably failed. I talked to a manager working at Sathyam and he was saying that some companies do not want to go with Sathyam again because of their screwups. Outsourcing is not new, it has been there for a long time. Only peripheral projects, which are very non-critical will be outsourced. Unless the company has its own wing in other countries, it is very difficult for outsourcing to work becuase of the layers of communication it has go through. But people will find out a way to reduce these hiccups as this is more lucrative.

For all those dumb people who can't understand common sense - outsourcing makes goods cheaper putting more money in people's pockets just what the manufacturing goods from China did a decade back. This in turn drives the economy up as people buy more and save more. This creates more jobs. If the US does not do it, other countries will do and the US will be flooded with those products. We are not talking about disconnected economies here. If we were we will all be writing on a leaf.
 
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That is a really "inciteful" comment. :D

The project is doomed from the beginning because senior management have not learned anything from the past failures and have not put process in place to ensure the success of the project.

History has a way of repeating itself.
 
"But people will find out a way to reduce these hiccups as this is more lucrative."

Correct. The only way to reduce this hiccups is to introduce more processes and hire highly competently and skillful people in the US to supervise, oversee, and manage those offshore outsourcing projects. And guess that, that drives the cost of outsourcing way up and eliminate any financial incentive for outsourcing.

I am not saying outsourcing is bad, but merely point out that outsourcing is not the silver bullet to every single problem.
 
Outsourcing..?

Outsourcing coming off age now. I am witness to the scenario from 1999. We started an effort to create a small team in 99 with couple of engineers in India using our consulting $$ and now grown up to 35-50 people working in ERP softwares executing direct projects with corporations and state corporate houses alike.

I think the technology is only going to make it lot easier to smoothen this process and as the knowledge transfer takes place, workers in countries like India become as professional as their US counterparts. In my own experience, a IT director in one of the Fortune 1000 companies was amazed to see that our programmers were supporting them at 3 AM their time while they had hard time keeping employees working from 9 AM to 4.30 PM.
 
"In my own experience, a IT director in one of the Fortune 1000 companies was amazed to see that our programmers were supporting them at 3 AM their time"

I guess he'd heard about time zone and it is high noon in India while it is 3am EST.

How come his job didn't get outsourced? :D

"while they had hard time keeping employees working from 9 AM to 4.30 PM."

Himself included?! But didn't you read the article, there will be a labor shortage and pretty soon employee will have the upper hand, which means he will have an even harder time to keep them from working from 10am to 3pm.
:D
 
Don't all your arguments boil down to management's effort to cut costs without understanding the implications (given a proverbial knowledge of geography, time zones, foreign work culture and ethics :D ) ?

I have a feeling after a few projects go down the drain, the mission critical ones will stay in-sourced. Also lot more folks will wise up after losing intelluctual property to offshore competitors.

Give it two more years ... things will reach an equilibrium and the mission critical jobs will stay here and the grunt, low-risk jobs will stay abroad.
 
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