Findings fly in face of UN's arguments

[nyc8300]

Time out!

Guys, this is not about IITians being the smartest, yada, yada....
This is about smart guys in India finding US less than exciting compared to earlier for further studies or for employment.
I didn't say anything about non-IITians, if you may be offended please
help yourself.

I agree.
The change of attitude of IIT student won't give solid ground to claim the US will lose talent.
Those who bring up IIT thing do not realize that there are a lot of immigrants from other countries too. Nowaday, Indian make a big percentage of H1 holders, but if some of IIT students decided not to come, that position might be filled by brilliant someone from other countries.

 

[GotPR?]

Guys, this is not about IITians being the smartest, yada, yada....
This is about smart guys in India finding US less than exciting compared to earlier for further studies or for employment.
I didn't say anything about non-IITians, if you may be offended please
help yourself.

I'm not saying IIT guys are not smart and I understand your point that it may be less exciting for IIT guys to come to the US nowaday than before. But it is just about one group of potential H1/GC people.
My point is even though IIT students are reluctant to come due to retro or booming in India, there is always people who is willing to come to the US and I'm sure we'll still see good flow of EB immigrant.

Whenever it stops immigration ot the US, it is the time that whole world becomes "flat", but it will be long ahead.

 

[GreenCardVirus]

Guys, this is not about IITians being the smartest, yada, yada....
This is about smart guys in India finding US less than exciting compared to earlier for further studies or for employment.
I didn't say anything about non-IITians, if you may be offended please
help yourself.

If you are referring to smart guys, then you should refer them as "smart guys", not IITans.

When you were referring fewer smart guys are finding US less exciting, you probably got your feeds from media outlets like Times-of-India or Rediff, I dont blame you for your ignorance.

 

[indian_gc_ocean]

I don't find anything wrong or inconsistent in those postings. If you want to counter them then go ahead and do so. Better that then rolling your eyes while you read them.

About the $50K; you need to read the disconnect between person's w2 and what they are really making.

I don't think you guys have any idea the wide span I have in dealing with these issues. I work with 15 different law firms in solving ability to pay issues. I've solved a few of the denails from sponsor of this forum. In programmersguild the top 100 companies they listed; I've touched close to a quarter of those companies. I just don't show very specific examples with decisions, denials, rfe's, etc. for obvious purposes.

This is no response whatsoever.

I mentioned I was current because someone said I wouldn't want blanket 485 filings because it would harm me.

I am just quoting two fo your quotes

1.
It seems the attitude is; I am on h-1b, making good money and I'll live life the way I want to and when it comes it comes.
I quoted the following quote from you because you said "You need to give examples of item in blue. "

http://www.immigrationportal.com/sh...33&postcount=51

2.
Not very narrow at all.

people on h-1b can get unemployment benefits and people do take them.

many don't have medical insurance - if they can't pay for it then state will pick up the tab (know one person whose kid had leukemia; final bill was going to be in $400,000 range, couple of other people i know had bills approaching the $40,000 range which state picked up).

can you see the connection when I say "It is also possible that the same very sample is driving you towards more unrealistic generalizations sometimes."

Also, did you ever observe that whatever you generalize is from your own personal experience while others referring to published articles ?

 

[indian_gc_ocean]

If you are referring to smart guys, then you should refer them as "smart guys", not IITans.

When you were referring fewer smart guys are finding US less exciting, you probably got your feeds from media outlets like Times-of-India or Rediff, I dont blame you for your ignorance.

GreenCardVirus,

I don't think anyone meant only IITs are brilliant there are number of others in India. But it is generally understood that most of the IITans are brilliant with very little chance for error. But IMHO, we cannot bet on other universities are not like that. Thats why we find IITans as a convinient example to quote when we talk about brilliant people. Lets not debate about our own prestigious institutions.

Losing IITans is a big loss to the US but well, the same IITans are working for MNCs in India. Is US really losing talent ? -- I don't think so.

 

[nyc8300]

Thanks indian_gc_ocean for soothing GCvirus's nerves! I think I touched his pride.
What you are saying about MNC's is true though; I will have to check how much of a MNC's earning is repatriated back, example GE.

The big thing is future growth and expectations. As we know the extent of money that flows into the US is based on expectations. If there was another stable alternative available to people/investors or if god forbid there was even one small bomb blast in the US, we might see China/Japan pulling its money out pretty quickly.
As UN had said earlier once an outsourcing cycle starts it is very hard for corporations to compete against it.

GreenCardVirus,

I don't think anyone meant only IITs are brilliant there are number of others in India. But it is generally understood that most of the IITans are brilliant with very little chance for error. But IMHO, we cannot bet on other universities are not like that. Thats why we find IITans as a convinient example to quote when we talk about brilliant people. Lets not debate about our own prestigious institutions.

Losing IITans is a big loss to the US but well, the same IITans are working for MNCs in India. Is US really losing talent ? -- I don't think so.

 

[GreenCardVirus]

GreenCardVirus,

I don't think anyone meant only IITs are brilliant there are number of others in India. But it is generally understood that most of the IITans are brilliant with very little chance for error. But IMHO, we cannot bet on other universities are not like that. Thats why we find IITans as a convinient example to quote when we talk about brilliant people. Lets not debate about our own prestigious institutions.

Agree with you. I have 2 problems here. First is that people refer to IITs so many times eulogizing them that it almost borders on calling everybody else useless. Second is the people often do so with false and misleading information.

How many days in a month do you see a news item on IIT in media websites like TOI/Rediff. 20 days would not be an exaggeration. Nobody knows how real are these news items, and over that people on this forum keep referring to them. Have you ever heard of things like 30% of people in NASA are Indians or some 25% of Mirosoft are Indians. How much Bull.S is that!! All the talk about IITans that they are staying back in India and they dont find US attractive is another kind of BS people are spreading.

(On a side note, when 100s of crores of public money is spent for less than 1% or Engineering Grads that India produces, why wont the institutes be prestigious or people coming from them brilliant? Ofcourse they will be )

 

[where_is_my_gc]

Agree with you. I have 2 problems here. First is that people refer to IITs so many times eulogizing them that it almost borders on calling everybody else useless. Second is the people often do so with false and misleading information.

Noones useless. People (esp. Indians) always like to associate themselves with something supreme. Why? Don't we say here..Oh hes an harvard grad. IIT was started back in 50s with other pillars of industrial India. People may be leaving and coming to US or whatever but that doesn't relegate IIT institutions as such. If you have been to one, you'd know what I am talking about.

How many days in a month do you see a news item on IIT in media websites like TOI/Rediff. 20 days would not be an exaggeration. Nobody knows how real are these news items, and over that people on this forum keep referring to them. Have you ever heard of things like 30% of people in NASA are Indians or some 25% of Mirosoft are Indians. How much Bull.S is that!! All the talk about IITans that they are staying back in India and they dont find US attractive is another kind of BS people are spreading.

You are prejudiced.
But about IITians staying back. Well..its true with every other colleges. The reason being simple not many visas + enough companies floating in India + people opting for other streams such as MBA.
People coming for MS etc are more or less same.

(On a side note, when 100s of crores of public money is spent for less than 1% or Engineering Grads that India produces, why wont the institutes be prestigious or people coming from them brilliant? Ofcourse they will be )

You talk like one of those OBCs quota proponents. "Give them access and college is going to turn them like anyother coming out" i.e . with no regard to merit. And we have all seen the impact of that - the only difference being - we have seen more dropouts thn passouts. No, Seriously, if thats the case why can't you turn anyone into a true entrepreneur by giving free access to hbs.

You will dig. Its takes more thn just Rs to churn out them.

 

[GreenCardVirus]

Noones useless. People (esp. Indians) always like to associate themselves with something supreme. Why? Don't we say here..Oh hes an harvard grad. IIT was started back in 50s with other pillars of industrial India. People may be leaving and coming to US or whatever but that doesn't relegate IIT institutions as such. If you have been to one, you'd know what I am talking about.

You are prejudiced.
But about IITians staying back. Well..its true with every other colleges. The reason being simple not many visas + enough companies floating in India + people opting for other streams such as MBA.
People coming for MS etc are more or less same.

You talk like one of those OBCs quota proponents. "Give them access and college is going to turn them like anyother coming out" i.e . with no regard to merit. And we have all seen the impact of that - the only difference being - we have seen more dropouts thn passouts. No, Seriously, if thats the case why can't you turn anyone into a true entrepreneur by giving free access to hbs.

You will dig. Its takes more thn just Rs to churn out them.

You probably need a primer on American higher education system. Just go to any major university and read its history before you compare it to IIT, mainly how they are started, how old are they and how they are funded.

50 years back, someone thougt that the nation needs great engineering colleges when the most of the country was illiterate. IITs should be really proud of their founders.

 

[where_is_my_gc]

No, I don't need a primer or anything and it was just a metaphor which you failed to understand. I was referring to similarity between treatment the grads from harvard/etc rcv in US vs iitians/iims/etc in India. Wasn't comparing institutions...dude. But seriously, I am really amazed how you got offended by my answers and that too in such a stupid way.

You made some incorrect and prejudiced remarks about IIT knowing I guess very little except how govt keep pumping money and people keep leaving (which also is not true to a lot extent) OR probably because of something more simpler and naive which I respectflly understand.

BTW, you can always go check IIT alumus and other sites to really see whats happening. In the past decade, major centres and funded research projects have been brought up by IIT alumnus in the campus. Govt. is really doing little. I'd not expect you to know all this anyways.

take care