FINAL DRAFTS for backlog Petition

To All,
First I would like to apologize for posting this message.

I was forced by dsatish's comment to post this message. Unlike dsatish who was pushing for his version 3.1, I'm not pushing for Your version 2.2 to be final.
But I prefer Your version 2.2 over other version due to following reason
1. Your version 2.2 is the result of inputs/suggestions/comments from various active members of this forum which is clearly evident from the petition preparation process.
2. Your version 2.2 petition is more formal rather than emotional. But at the same time I don't see any emotional contents in version 3.1
3. Your version 2.2 is more generic petition for Employment based immigration backlog request.
 
Chill out guys. Please don't get into 'whose petition is better' stuff. Everybody did a great job. Once the petition is out, it doesn't matter, who prepared it. Everybody gets the credit. I would rather have one petition sent to Rajiv for his review, as he may not have much time to compare two petitions.

Edison, dsateesh, if you can come up with one petition, I can send it to Rajiv's notice.


Originally posted by Edison
To All,
First I would like to apologize for posting this message.

I was forced by dsatish's comment to post this message. Unlike dsatish who was pushing for his version 3.1, I'm not pushing for Your version 2.2 to be final.
But I prefer Your version 2.2 over other version due to following reason
1. Your version 2.2 is the result of inputs/suggestions/comments from various active members of this forum which is clearly evident from the petition preparation process.
2. Your version 2.2 petition is more formal rather than emotional. But at the same time I don't see any emotional contents in version 3.1
3. Your version 2.2 is more generic petition for Employment based immigration backlog request.
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by Edison
To All,
First I would like to apologize for posting this message.

I was forced by dsatish's comment to post this message. Unlike dsatish who was pushing for his version 3.1, I'm not pushing for Your version 2.2 to be final.
But I prefer Your version 2.2 over other version due to following reason
1. Your version 2.2 is the result of inputs/suggestions/comments from various active members of this forum which is clearly evident from the petition preparation process.
2. Your version 2.2 petition is more formal rather than emotional. But at the same time I don't see any emotional contents in version 3.1
3. Your version 2.2 is more generic petition for Employment based immigration backlog request.
Click to expand...

Edison:
I am surprised by your posting. What you guys are trying man. You know what with this posting, you are giving a feeling that you are trying to push your version too.

Everyone is saying, let's give it to Rajiv for him to decide.

Please note , we need an effective petition and it does not matter whose version goes to BCIS.

We all appreciate the effort put by everybody.



Ever
 
Originally posted by dsatish
GUYS,
PLEASE GIVE YOUR INPUTS. It's unfortunate that not many people are posting their comments. This makes the job of finalising the Letter difficult. Only YJay has clearly spoken about his choice. Dengdeng and Topaz said that both are good. What about other active people like Cinta, mogli, frantic, Mavishka, kjkool etc ?

YJay,
It's not true that i have not incorporated other's suggestions. It is also not true that more people have favoured version 2.0.
When version 2.0 and 3.0 were published almost at the same time, a lot of people commented(including me) about the flaws in version2.0 where as there were virtually no comments on version 3.0. I take it as a complement for my version where as you seem to take it as disinterest. Now that we have the two final drafts, let people clearly give their preference. I know that you and perhaps sai prefers version 2.2 . I think that Topaz prefers version 3.1 (It is an improvement of his 3.0). Where as earlier Dengdeng preferred version 2.0, now he says that both v2.2 and v3.1 are good. Please rememember that version 3.1 is a vast improvement over version 3.0 for its emotional tone and presentation of our solutions.

To All, let me explain why i am pushing version 3.1
Advantages of version 3.1 (compared to version 2.2)
----------------------------------
1. stronger emotional tone
2. The main letter is shorter and simpler
3. Our demands are covered more clearly and comprehensively .
4. Though the structure of both the letters are same, i feel the
flow is better in my version. I don't like 'Benefits of Immigration'
appearing at such an early stage in the letter.
5. My version offers the solutions in detail in ther appendix.

I once again request every one to say which version they like more. Thanks for those who have already given their preference.
We will go with whiich ever version more people prefer. If we get clear answer , then we will select that. If we don't get any responses from people (other than Dengdeng, Sai, Topaz and YJay) then let us ask Rajeev to pick one from both. I am actually ready, if we want to send both the letters to Rajiv right away. That may be best idea if we don't want to cause any more delays and any more futile discussions.
Click to expand...

ar888,
Please read dsatish comments. It is dsatish who started this. Also if you follow our petition preparation thread, then it will be clear that OUR VERSION 2.2 was created by various active members of this forum. OUR VERSION 2.2 was compiled considering the suggestion of all the forum members including dsatish's comment and no individual claimed credit for OUR VERSION 2.2 unlike other version for which dsatish always claims credit.

I personally don't care which version goes out but we have to respect the efforts of all individuals who contributed to this petition rather than just one person's personal ideas.

There is no doubt that OUR VERSION 2.2 is a consolidated petition created by various active members of this forum addressing the issues raised by other active forum members.

topazb,
Please read dsatish's comment. I didn't start this dirt here. Personally I don't have any preference.

Personally I don't have any preference for any version so I'm not pushing for any version. Also, I respect Mr. Rajiv's view/decision about the final petition
 
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Originally posted by Edison
To All,
First I would like to apologize for posting this message.

I was forced by dsatish's comment to post this message. Unlike dsatish who was pushing for his version 3.1, I'm not pushing for Your version 2.2 to be final.
But I prefer Your version 2.2 over other version due to following reason
1. Your version 2.2 is the result of inputs/suggestions/comments from various active members of this forum which is clearly evident from the petition preparation process.
2. Your version 2.2 petition is more formal rather than emotional. But at the same time I don't see any emotional contents in version 3.1
3. Your version 2.2 is more generic petition for Employment based immigration backlog request.
Click to expand...

Hi Edison,
Cool down my dear friend. What prompted me to post the comparison between the versions is the question by YJay who asked me why i am pushing my version when Edison and others have prepared one version. Let me tell you this. Version 3.1 is based as much on other's letters as version 2.2 . I have added good points from kjkool's and your versions. So for heaven's sake don't say that version 2.2 is people's version and version 3.1 is dsatish version.
More over while comparing the two versions, i have always used the words version 2.2 versus version 3.1 . If you feel that i should not have compared the two versions, i can't help. I know it hurts emotionally, but when some one pulls my legs asking me why do we need version 3.1 at all, then i have to explain. I would not have minded if your posting started with, "Here are the advantages of version 2.2 over 3.1".

I have been begging every one in this forum to give their feedback on which letter they liked more. I know that YJay and sai (who prepared various flavors of 2.x) are firmly behind 2.1 , but i only wanted a clear answer from a larger audience. If you goto the thread where we prepared all the initial drafts, you will find some people who said that they liked version 3.0 (by Topaz and me).

Anyhow, we got almost no response to the final versions except from the same 3 or 4 people who are involved in it. That's why i decided that let's move the ball to Rajiv's court. Take it easy. We have a long way to go.
 
Edison,

I know who started it, I was only asking to take it easy. You guys did a great job (particularly you).

Originally posted by Edison
ar888,
Please read dsatish comments. It is dsatish who started this. Also if you follow our petition preparation thread, then it will be clear that OUR VERSION 2.2 was created by various active members of this forum. OUR VERSION 2.2 was compiled considering the suggestion of all the forum members including dsatish's comment and no individual claimed credit for OUR VERSION 2.2 unlike other version for which dsatish always claims credit.

I personally don't care which version goes out but we have to respect the efforts of all individuals who contributed to this petition rather than just one person's personal ideas.

There is no doubt that OUR VERSION 2.2 is a consolidated petition created by various active members of this forum addressing the issues raised by other active forum members.

topazb,
Please read dsatish's comment. I didn't start this dirt here. Personally I don't have any preference.

Personally I don't have any preference for any version so I'm not pushing for any version. Also, I respect Mr. Rajiv's view/decision about the final petition
Click to expand...
 
dsatish & Edison, Without you two taking the lead on this, this would not have been possible. Please pass this on to Rajiv so that he can review it.


-sai
 
Why can't we work together?

It's time to stop pointing fingers.

I never meant we should exclude anyone's good inputs to the effort. I have suggested that dsatish and Edison work together to merge the 2 versions into one. I don't need to quote what I said earlier. It's in this thread just in case anyone missed anything.

I like to emphasize my views:
1) I like to get this thing out ASAP
2) I am against voting. Working together is the best solution.
3) One COBNIEND/MERGED version should go to Rajiv. However, I am willing to comprise for the sake of quick action. It's ok with me if we send both to Rajiv.

I don't see the point why we need a clear answer on which one is better (both are good). Our goal is to get this thing done ASAP.

I don't entertain the idea of begging people "to give feedback on which letter they like more". If people do, you will see two camps. Please stop here.

Thanks, guys.


Originally posted by dsatish
Hi Edison,
Cool down my dear friend. What prompted me to post the comparison between the versions is the question by YJay who asked me why i am pushing my version when Edison and others have prepared one version. Let me tell you this. Version 3.1 is based as much on other's letters as version 2.2 . I have added good points from kjkool's and your versions. So for heaven's sake don't say that version 2.2 is people's version and version 3.1 is dsatish version.
More over while comparing the two versions, i have always used the words version 2.2 versus version 3.1 . If you feel that i should not have compared the two versions, i can't help. I know it hurts emotionally, but when some one pulls my legs asking me why do we need version 3.1 at all, then i have to explain. I would not have minded if your posting started with, "Here are the advantages of version 2.2 over 3.1".

I have been begging every one in this forum to give their feedback on which letter they liked more. I know that YJay and sai (who prepared various flavors of 2.x) are firmly behind 2.1 , but i only wanted a clear answer from a larger audience. If you goto the thread where we prepared all the initial drafts, you will find some people who said that they liked version 3.0 (by Topaz and me).

Anyhow, we got almost no response to the final versions except from the same 3 or 4 people who are involved in it. That's why i decided that let's move the ball to Rajiv's court. Take it easy. We have a long way to go.
Click to expand...
 
Guys

Firstly, thank a lot to all of you for doing this!
Secondly, please review my suggestions (note, they are only suggestions).

I like both versions almost equally. The 3.1 seems more emotional to me, so I think it might have more affect on those officials. I notice two things:

1. The prase "Our presence is critically important for the growth of American business and American Economy" i my opinoin should by replaced by "Our presence is VERY important for the growth of American business and American Economy". Reason: I don't think American sitizens will understand and accept the "critical" part.

2. The phrase "On an average each of us are living in this country for more than 6 years, paying huge Taxes and ..." should be raplaced by "On an average each of us are living in this country for more than 6 years, paying OUR Taxes and ...". Reason: the word "huge", I think, might make them think we dont believe our taxes are fair and that we complain.

Please don't take any offence in my comments. Just trying to make my contribution.
 
ar888,
Don't waste any more time. Just send the two letters to Rajiv. I think it's going to take only an aditional 10 minutes for Rajiv to look at both the letters. Let us see what he will say.

I am tempted to give a strong reply to some of Edison's comments(like "dsatish started this dirt" etc) but i will put a PERIOD for the sake of this group. Emotions make our mind blind and i don't want to get into that mood. Edison, Dengdeng and myself have been a big force behind this effort and there is no need for any one to rank us.
 
Re: Version 3.1

Originally posted by dsatish

For the past one year, we have been a voiceless group and we are passing through very difficult times because of the slow progress of our applications at California, Nebraska, Texas and Vermont Service centers. In your appointment, we see our only hope of our voice being heard at BCIS.

The severe processing delay, is affecting our lives enormously. We are not sure of our future, we can not take some important decisions in our lives and our career advancement is hampered because the applicant has to remain with the same employer (or) similar job. The employers are taking advantage of the above restrictions and the severe processing delays have only helped in extending this forced bondage. A general feeling of frustration over these ever-swelling waiting periods is very negatively affecting all of us.
Click to expand...

Rickz, thanks for your review of version 3.1 .
If any one wants to know what is the emotional stuff in version 3.1, that i am talking about, please see the above text quoted from version3.1 .
The second paragraph in the above quote is mostly taken from kjkool letter. I have incorporated some points from version 2.0 (by edison) and put them under 'Our contribution' paragraph.
The idea of attaching an emotional tone to the letter was provided by DengDeng. That's why I have been repeating in almost every post that i have incorporated the best from all the versions.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Feedback and update for version 3.1

Dengdeng,
I have updated Appendix B with most of the your suggestions.

Hi Rickz,
I have replaced 'huge taxes' with 'our taxes' (and lost some emotional shine :mad: ). I haven't changed 'critically important' because i feel that's much stronger and better.

Cinta,
I wonder what made you to think that the two letters does not clearly state 'who we are' clearly. It only tells me that you haven't read even the first 5 lines of version 3.1 . Version 3.1 is 300% clear about who we are. The clarity starts in the "subject" of the letter itself.
 
dsatish, look at my http://boards.immigration.com/showthread.php?threadid=94835
thread.

Since it's not possible to argue for a higher priority than religious workers, let's fight for higher priority over TPS. And let's emphasize we have been waiting for 2 years, we need expedite too. To Oct 2003, the processing time of EB485 cases will be 22 months. What a shame of BCIS.
Law said 6 months, last year was 10 months, now 22 months. We should point out this in the petition.
 
Dengdeng: I don’t agree with you. Let us put in what we want – whether it is religious worker, TPS or anything for that matter. We want our cases to be given higher priority.

Dsathis: I agree with you that many have not even read the version 3.0 posted by me. Otherwise, we would have at least got some response on that version. Actually, in one of my posting I have put in this question: is it too good (to comment) or too bad (just ignore).

Personally, I liked version 3.1 not because it is an improved version of 3.0 (posted by me) but of the structuring of the petition. I have all along been advocating on the structure and the length of the petition. I still believe that there is no need for the Para 'Benefits of Immigration' in Edison’s version. My opinion is that certainly the version 3.1 has better flow and more to the point. We need to keep it in mind that those guys are not expected to read more than one page seriously and we need to bring out our point on the very first page.

Ar888: We understand it is too much to ask Rajiv to review both the version. Can you please put in a request on our behalf? If it is not possible can he give some direction by just glancing thru’ these two petition.
 
A story to digest during lunch!

A food market had crabs from various countries all stored in different jars. The jars had lids on them to prevent the crabs from escaping. However one jar, had no lid on it. When asked by a passerby about it, the owner said ::"AH! these crabs are from country (X), they cannot escape".
The passerby became curious, and enquired why???
The answer was : Such is the nature of crabs from this country, that when one tries to escape --the others pull him back.

-sai
 
Originally posted by sai-2367
A story to digest during lunch!

A food market had crabs from various countries all stored in different jars. The jars had lids on them to prevent the crabs from escaping. However one jar, had no lid on it. When asked by a passerby about it, the owner said ::"AH! these crabs are from country (X), they cannot escape".
The passerby became curious, and enquired why???
The answer was : Such is the nature of crabs from this country, that when one tries to escape --the others pull him back.

-sai
Click to expand...

Sai,
I thought of the same story. But I thought that it would be inappropriate to post that. Anyway, Thanks for the story. I'm sorry please read that as 'Thanks for the facts".
 
hats off to all of you

well, both are good. Thank you guys for your effort. Edison, dsatish, dengdeng.... thank you!

as for the petition, could Rajiv office polish it by professional legal writer i thought there are enough people willing to contribute money for effort like that.
 
Greaaaaaaaaaat Job dsatish, edison.
Hats offfff for your superb efforts.
Both versions are good but i prefer version 3.1 because it is more focussed . I especially liked the sentences "every month, BCIS is changing the processing time " and "soon the processing time might become 36 months".
 
Originally posted by dsatish
GUYS,
PLEASE GIVE YOUR INPUTS. It's unfortunate that not many people are posting their comments. This makes the job of finalising the Letter difficult. Only YJay has clearly spoken about his choice. Dengdeng and Topaz said that both are good. What about other active people like Cinta, mogli, frantic, Mavishka, kjkool etc ?

YJay,
It's not true that i have not incorporated other's suggestions. It is also not true that more people have favoured version 2.0.
When version 2.0 and 3.0 were published almost at the same time, a lot of people commented(including me) about the flaws in version2.0 where as there were virtually no comments on version 3.0. I take it as a complement for my version where as you seem to take it as disinterest. Now that we have the two final drafts, let people clearly give their preference. I know that you and perhaps sai prefers version 2.2 . I think that Topaz prefers version 3.1 (It is an improvement of his 3.0). Where as earlier Dengdeng preferred version 2.0, now he says that both v2.2 and v3.1 are good. Please rememember that version 3.1 is a vast improvement over version 3.0 for its emotional tone and presentation of our solutions.

To All, let me explain why i am pushing version 3.1
Advantages of version 3.1 (compared to version 2.2)
----------------------------------
1. stronger emotional tone
2. The main letter is shorter and simpler
3. Our demands are covered more clearly and comprehensively .
4. Though the structure of both the letters are same, i feel the
flow is better in my version. I don't like 'Benefits of Immigration'
appearing at such an early stage in the letter.
5. My version offers the solutions in detail in ther appendix.

I once again request every one to say which version they like more. Thanks for those who have already given their preference.
We will go with whiich ever version more people prefer. If we get clear answer , then we will select that. If we don't get any responses from people (other than Dengdeng, Sai, Topaz and YJay) then let us ask Rajeev to pick one from both. I am actually ready, if we want to send both the letters to Rajiv right away. That may be best idea if we don't want to cause any more delays and any more futile discussions.
Click to expand...

dsatish,
I spent more than a couple of hours on "your version" alone. It simple does not strike me a bit. From the composition to the presentation, etc. There are too many points to comment on, and do not take me wrong for this. There is no doubt that you and others put a lot of work into this, but this is the nature of such a thing. So in any case, whether it is early or late here are some points:
1: A lot of words are not used properly. "for the past one year", "our only hope", "very negatively affecting","desperately needed","we played", "we will continue", etc
2: Our expectations section: I mentioned before that it is not proper nor professional to tell the US government what to do. It seems like you do not have the capacity to understand. You do that in a LAWSUIT not in a PETITION. This is a petition only. Save this information for next. This section should therefore be titled as "What the problems are" instead.
3: Based on this "Appendix B" should be abolished also. Keep the most important points and incorporate them into the main letter.
4:who we are: The subject line by itself does not explain "who we are" unless you identify about 300,000 people with yourself. Apparently this is not the case. You should mention exactly what at least most of us are: NIW, EB1, EB2, EB3, etc with approved LC from the Department of Labor. In this paragraph (there is no paragraph), you should explain where we work. From Wall street to Main Street and if you make a right turn, you will find me also. You need to show that group has the TOP SCIENTISTS IN THE COUNTRY (EB1, NIW). You need to show that people contribute to the HOMELAND AND NATIONAL SECURITY, given the fact that BCIS is driven by it from September 11. You need to mention this date also as things changed from there on. This is like a letter to your professor trying to upgrade or correct your grade. It has an overall "guilty" feeling about it and then with intrusion tries to tell the Big Brother what to do. No need. This Nation is a superpower, can "liberate" a country it, bomb it, and then reconstruct it in a couple of weeks. Do not worry about the money!
 
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