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Feeling stressed: TN-1 denied, applying as Engineer (with B.Sc) now
- Thread starter deropolo
- Start date
northyorkcentre
New Member
Ty deropolo for sharing your experience.
Apparently, Software Engineers are indeed “Engineers” that qualify for TN visa classification.
There are almost none software development roles that only involves "pure" programming, which would be classified as "Computer Programmer". As long as your role involves designing the system, it should be classified as "Software Engineer". Some border officers would indeed have some misconceptions sometimes, but that doesn't mean we should give up and go to the next offer.
Apparently, Software Engineers are indeed “Engineers” that qualify for TN visa classification.
There are almost none software development roles that only involves "pure" programming, which would be classified as "Computer Programmer". As long as your role involves designing the system, it should be classified as "Software Engineer". Some border officers would indeed have some misconceptions sometimes, but that doesn't mean we should give up and go to the next offer.
Getting a TN permit in the tech industry has evolved significantly over the past 20 years. That's just the nature of the beast when you have broad, high-level laws, being re-interpreted over time by an ever-rotating cast of government bureaucrats & field officers.
Also keep in mind: when i started in tech, even the term "software engineer" was scoffed at by some people who interviewed me. They were proud programmers and considered the title "engineer" pretentious. Even though the work is fundamentally the same today as it was then, the common labels have evolved.
What's the moral of the story? New TN applicants either need to get lucky when applying for these categories that don't have sharp borders, or they should find a lawyer who regularly works on TN applications so they're up-to-date on the latest trends for USCIS.
Also keep in mind: when i started in tech, even the term "software engineer" was scoffed at by some people who interviewed me. They were proud programmers and considered the title "engineer" pretentious. Even though the work is fundamentally the same today as it was then, the common labels have evolved.
What's the moral of the story? New TN applicants either need to get lucky when applying for these categories that don't have sharp borders, or they should find a lawyer who regularly works on TN applications so they're up-to-date on the latest trends for USCIS.
deropolo : I am also in similar boat, I have been denied twice under CSA category. Could you please share you lawyer/attorney details ?
UPDATE: I got my TN this morning from Peace Bridge as an Engineer with a Computer Science degree.
For those in a similar position, this is what worked for me. Listen to your lawyer. I cannot guarantee it will work for you as well, it is definitely still an uphill battle, and it is ultimately up to the officer, but these are the things I did to maximize my chances:
Prepare your argument for why an engineering degree is not required for the Engineer classification (because it's not):
- USMCA does not specify a specific degree for the Engineer classification, baccalaureate or licenciatura or state/provincial license is sufficient.
- Cronin (2000) memo that advises that the degree should be in a closely related field. More info here: usvisahelp.com/newswire/?action=viewArticle&articleId=22
- Your lawyer should be able to provide the exact sections and quotes and documents for this. (i.e. USCMA Chapter 16 Appendix 2, etc.)
Prepare your argument for why your education qualifies you (why a Computer Science degree is sufficient for a Software Engineer position)
- Department of Labor’s O*NET manual lists “Software Engineer” as an alternate title for “Software Developer.”
- Department of Labor’s Occupational Outlook Handbook lists Software Developers usually have a bachelor's degree in CS, thus, it is a directly relevant degree
- Bring your official transcript. Ideally you should have a significant computer science/software engineering component in your CS degree. Highlight this. Bring your official degree as well.
- If your workplace can provide additional documentation supporting that most/all of their Software Engineers have a Computer Science or Software Engineering degree, that is helpful too.
Feel free to reply or DM if you have any questions.
UPDATE: I got my TN this morning from Peace Bridge as an Engineer with a Computer Science degree.
For those in a similar position, this is what worked for me. Listen to your lawyer. I cannot guarantee it will work for you as well, it is definitely still an uphill battle, and it is ultimately up to the officer, but these are the things I did to maximize my chances:
Prepare your argument for why an engineering degree is not required for the Engineer classification (because it's not):
- USMCA does not specify a specific degree for the Engineer classification, baccalaureate or licenciatura or state/provincial license is sufficient.
- Cronin (2000) memo that advises that the degree should be in a closely related field. More info here: usvisahelp.com/newswire/?action=viewArticle&articleId=22
- Your lawyer should be able to provide the exact sections and quotes and documents for this. (i.e. USCMA Chapter 16 Appendix 2, etc.)
Prepare your argument for why your education qualifies you (why a Computer Science degree is sufficient for a Software Engineer position)
- Department of Labor’s O*NET manual lists “Software Engineer” as an alternate title for “Software Developer.”
- Department of Labor’s Occupational Outlook Handbook lists Software Developers usually have a bachelor's degree in CS, thus, it is a directly relevant degree
- Bring your official transcript. Ideally you should have a significant computer science/software engineering component in your CS degree. Highlight this. Bring your official degree as well.
- If your workplace can provide additional documentation supporting that most/all of their Software Engineers have a Computer Science or Software Engineering degree, that is helpful too.
Feel free to reply or DM if you have any questions
Hi, Could you please share the details of your lawyer? thanks.UPDATE: I got my TN this morning from Peace Bridge as an Engineer with a Computer Science degree.
For those in a similar position, this is what worked for me. Listen to your lawyer. I cannot guarantee it will work for you as well, it is definitely still an uphill battle, and it is ultimately up to the officer, but these are the things I did to maximize my chances:
Prepare your argument for why an engineering degree is not required for the Engineer classification (because it's not):
- USMCA does not specify a specific degree for the Engineer classification, baccalaureate or licenciatura or state/provincial license is sufficient.
- Cronin (2000) memo that advises that the degree should be in a closely related field. More info here: usvisahelp.com/newswire/?action=viewArticle&articleId=22
- Your lawyer should be able to provide the exact sections and quotes and documents for this. (i.e. USCMA Chapter 16 Appendix 2, etc.)
Prepare your argument for why your education qualifies you (why a Computer Science degree is sufficient for a Software Engineer position)
- Department of Labor’s O*NET manual lists “Software Engineer” as an alternate title for “Software Developer.”
- Department of Labor’s Occupational Outlook Handbook lists Software Developers usually have a bachelor's degree in CS, thus, it is a directly relevant degree
- Bring your official transcript. Ideally you should have a significant computer science/software engineering component in your CS degree. Highlight this. Bring your official degree as well.
- If your workplace can provide additional documentation supporting that most/all of their Software Engineers have a Computer Science or Software Engineering degree, that is helpful too.
Feel free to reply or DM if you have any questions.
I am also in similar boat, I have been denied twice under CSA category. Could you please share you lawyer/attorney details ?
Hi, Could you please share the details of your lawyer? thanks.
It would be disrespectful to the sponsor of this forum to advertise competing lawyers openly.
For those who are on the west coast, I enthusiastically recommend my lawyer who's based in Blaine & deals with that POE daily. PM me for contact info.