educational restriction

E

eager123

New Member
hi
im from turkey.previously i will state that my english is broken .i expect that you understand me.my high school study field is on telecommunication(technical school).but turkish laws coerce me to choose a field only.it is possible for electronics but not engineering.the other study fields is prohibited.for example ,however i studied telecommunication ,i can choose electronics technical education school.but i want to study telecommunication field.it can be telecommunication engineering ,electronics engineering .therefore, my freedom of choice is restricted by turkish laws.i dont know whether this is political or not.my grades are sufficient to study telecommunication and other fields.so
can i apply for political asylum in usa?is it possible to be admitted?
thank u.
 
turkish dilemma

not that I have undersdood a thing what the heck you are talking about but sure, you can apply for political asylum in the USA. what they would say is completely different ball game.

it would be fun to see your application and the inteview. keep us posted.

eager123 said:
hi im from turkey.previously i will state that my english is broken .i expect that you understand me.my high school study field is on telecommunication(technical school).but turkish laws coerce me to choose a field only.it is possible for electronics but not engineering.the other study fields is prohibited.for example ,however i studied telecommunication ,i can choose electronics technical education school.but i want to study telecommunication field.it can be telecommunication engineering ,electronics engineering .therefore, my freedom of choice is restricted by turkish laws.i dont know whether this is political or not.my grades are sufficient to study telecommunication and other fields.so
can i apply for political asylum in usa?is it possible to be admitted?
thank u.
Click to expand...
 
Advice to the contrary

With all due respect to GreyHost (he is after all the Chairperson of our Steering Committee on Travel Freedom), I disagree with his suggestions.

What you need to do first is talk to an immigration lawyer with an active asylum practice. Preferably with Turkish connections or exposure to the situation in Turkey. Take all advice here with a grain of salt. I am merely a corporate and securities lawyer with limited immigration law experience, most of it gained from my experience as a former asylee.

The bottom line is: what you are complaining about is a classic economic/financial hardship and does not rise to the level of persecution as required by law. Under the statute you need to show persecution under one of the five protected grounds namely race, nationality, religion, political opinion and/or membership in a particular social group. The last one sounds like a broad category but believe me they have applied narrow definitions. "Forced electronics majors in Turkey" ain't one of them!

Are you Kurdish? Have you taken part in any opposition to the Turkish government. I heard the government there, though secular, likes to kick the asses of dissidents that its application to join the EU was in jeopardy? Explore your options.

But most of all, spend some $$ talking to a good immigration lawyer who meets the qualities above. Good Luck.
 
TortFeasor said:
With all due respect to GreyHost (he is after all the Chairperson of our Steering Committee on Travel Freedom), I disagree with his suggestions.

What you need to do first is talk to an immigration lawyer with an active asylum practice. Preferably with Turkish connections or exposure to the situation in Turkey. Take all advice here with a grain of salt. I am merely a corporate and securities lawyer with limited immigration law experience, most of it gained from my experience as a former asylee.

The bottom line is: what you are complaining about is a classic economic/financial hardship and does not rise to the level of persecution as required by law. Under the statute you need to show persecution under one of the five protected grounds namely race, nationality, religion, political opinion and/or membership in a particular social group. The last one sounds like a broad category but believe me they have applied narrow definitions. "Forced electronics majors in Turkey" ain't one of them!

Are you Kurdish? Have you taken part in any opposition to the Turkish government. I heard the government there, though secular, likes to kick the asses of dissidents that its application to join the EU was in jeopardy? Explore your options.

But most of all, spend some $$ talking to a good immigration lawyer who meets the qualities above. Good Luck.
Click to expand...
I concur. Even in America, if you are Arabic or Muslim you may be restricted from studying nuclear physics.
:) I hope you are Kurdish because this is a more credible excuse.
 
eager123 said:
hi
im from turkey.previously i will state that my english is broken .i expect that you understand me.my high school study field is on telecommunication(technical school).but turkish laws coerce me to choose a field only.it is possible for electronics but not engineering.the other study fields is prohibited.for example ,however i studied telecommunication ,i can choose electronics technical education school.but i want to study telecommunication field.it can be telecommunication engineering ,electronics engineering .therefore, my freedom of choice is restricted by turkish laws.i dont know whether this is political or not.my grades are sufficient to study telecommunication and other fields.so
can i apply for political asylum in usa?is it possible to be admitted?
thank u.
Click to expand...

I am sorry but this does not appear to come close to the level of persecution necessary to sustain an asylum application.
 
the only way I can think of is if you are a woman and wearing a hijab. After all, Turkey is not truly democratic and free country. This is the only way I can think of and I know some people who did this.
 
nofreedom said:
the only way I can think of is if you are a woman and wearing a hijab. After all, Turkey is not truly democratic and free country. This is the only way I can think of and I know some people who did this.
Click to expand...
So a woman from Turkey would apply for political asylum in America because this will let her go to school with hejab (head cover for Muslim women)? This is so ironic. Consider a possible scenario: She can do that and she can come to school with ehr cover, only to be harassed by an ass who would make fun of her and accuse her of being Qadafi's girlfriend! I also believe that the head cover (hejab) is a sign of slavery and subservience of women so many judges, especially feminist ones, may have a problem granting her asylum. I did not mean to offend our Muslim brothers and sisters, who like the Hejab, in making this comment, but this is the opinion of a famous Middle Eastern writer, Nawal el Saadawy
 
well, somebody chooses to wear it, and Turkey government forbids it in public places. This is clear violation of human rights whatever we think of this issue. This is one of the reasons that they do not allow them in European Union (including the Kurdish issue). I'm not saying that this issue has not been abused by many, but many people would not agree with you. However, if you try to mix local customs in those middle-eastern countries and issue of hijab, then I would agree with you. Local customs and stupidity of people who follow local customs instead of religion are just overwhelming. Freedom of expression is very important, and if somebody chooses to express themselves by wearing a hijab, they should be allowed to. Turkey is secular country and nothing like any of Middle-Eastern countries and nobody is forcing them to wear hijab. Almost all of them I met through immigration choose to wear it, even despite of their families. So, in my opinion, this issue is completely different then any hijab issues in Middle-Easter countries. Any religion has pure intentions. When somebody tries to mix it with their local customs, then we get into the big mess and everybody is trying to justify their cause using partial quotes from holy books (all of them). This is very sad. I like to read about all the religions and sometimes you have to read a lot to understand somebody’s point of view. I hope my response is not too political. I’m not trying to justify any sides, but I like justice. And in the case of Turkey, this is clearly a big issue.
 
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the issue is not definitely economic/financial hardship.im not a muslim.im an atheist.there are many friends being atheist.turkey is not completely muslim country.i felt so sorry because of your messages.your messages are in vicious circle except for TortFeasor's. they are about solely islam.i m not a kurdish .you think that educational freedom is not important.but i disagree with u.in my opinion,the problem is about human rights.u didnt understand me.i repeat again:
i cant choose maths,physics,electronic engineering,telecommunication,and all quantitative majors and verbal majors.and my grades are high and enough.
i can prove it.so i have all documents
thank u.
 
eager123 said:
the issue is not definitely economic/financial hardship.im not a muslim.im an atheist.there are many friends being atheist.turkey is not completely muslim country.i felt so sorry because of your messages.your messages are in vicious circle except for TortFeasor's. they are about solely islam.i m not a kurdish .you think that educational freedom is not important.but i disagree with u.in my opinion,the problem is about human rights.u didnt understand me.i repeat again:
i cant choose maths,physics,electronic engineering,telecommunication,and all quantitative majors and verbal majors.and my grades are high and enough.
i can prove it.so i have all documents
thank u.
Click to expand...

You are free to apply for asylum. But anyone with a basic understanding of the asyum process will tell you that denial of higher education is NOT persecution within the meaning of the law. If it were, then the asylum system would be flooded with claims by people whose lives are not working out to their plans. No country in the world will open this sort of floodgate to outsiders, period.
 
I hear you, but ......

Eager123:

I agree with your assessment that freedom of education is important and should be afforded human rights protection. I owe a lot for the opportunities my education opened for me. I am sure a good and fair educational system will solve a lot of the problems back in our home countries as well as in the inner cities and rural areas of our adopted country. Hell, a better education with a global view may even be a redemption for those who live in the red states! (Pardon my digression!)

But, the fact remains that under the current legal system, lack of access or freedom to adequate education back in your country does not rise to a level of persecution under the asylum laws of this country. In order to prevail, you should base your claim of persecution on race, nationality, religion, political opinion and/or membership in a particular social group. For your information, education has not been accepted as a fundamental right even for citizens of this country. While resolving a 1973 case dealing with economic disparity in the financing of local educational systems, the US Supreme Court decided that it did not view education as a fundamental right which gives rise to an equal protection claim under the Constitution (see San Antonio Independent School District v. Rodriguez).

In short: do not waste your time, money, energy or your scarce shot at the status of asylum pursuing this angle.

On the other hand, being an atheist could give rise to a better claim of persecution under the "religion" or "membership in a particular group" prongs. If you were persecuted or fear future persecution on account of being an atheist back in Turkey, you should explore that theory. As per my prior suggestions consult with an immigration lawyer on the merits of the case. Even if the Turkish government is secular, if it can not protect your belief from a hostile religious majority, you may have a case.

In spite of the advances made by right-wing religious whackos in this country (the Bob Jones', Jerry Falwells' and Pat Robertsons' of this world) over the last few years, this country still does afford protection to atheists.

Good luck.


eager123 said:
the issue is not definitely economic/financial hardship.im not a muslim.im an atheist.there are many friends being atheist.turkey is not completely muslim country.i felt so sorry because of your messages.your messages are in vicious circle except for TortFeasor's. they are about solely islam.i m not a kurdish .you think that educational freedom is not important.but i disagree with u.in my opinion,the problem is about human rights.u didnt understand me.i repeat again:
i cant choose maths,physics,electronic engineering,telecommunication,and all quantitative majors and verbal majors.and my grades are high and enough.
i can prove it.so i have all documents
thank u.
Click to expand...
 
Good points. You have to first prove that you are excluded from an institution of higher learning on account of one the five protected grounds. From you messages this does not appear to be true. It appears that you are a victim of your government's allocation of internal human resources. However regretable to an individual, it falls outside the domain of asylum law.

Second, even assuming for the moment that you have been denied admission to a college for one of the five protected reasons, you still have to demonstrate that such denial is persecution within the meaning of domestic and/or international law. Unfortunately there is no right to higher education and this would be fatal to your application.




TortFeasor said:
Eager123:

I agree with your assessment that freedom of education is important and should be afforded human rights protection. I owe a lot for the opportunities my education opened for me. I am sure a good and fair educational system will solve a lot of the problems back in our home countries as well as in the inner cities and rural areas of our adopted country. Hell, a better education with a global view may even be a redemption for those who live in the red states! (Pardon my digression!)

But, the fact remains that under the current legal system, lack of access or freedom to adequate education back in your country does not rise to a level of persecution under the asylum laws of this country. In order to prevail, you should base your claim of persecution on race, nationality, religion, political opinion and/or membership in a particular social group. For your information, education has not been accepted as a fundamental right even for citizens of this country. While resolving a 1973 case dealing with economic disparity in the financing of local educational systems, the US Supreme Court decided that it did not view education as a fundamental right which gives rise to an equal protection claim under the Constitution (see San Antonio Independent School District v. Rodriguez).

In short: do not waste your time, money, energy or your scarce shot at the status of asylum pursuing this angle.

On the other hand, being an atheist could give rise to a better claim of persecution under the "religion" or "membership in a particular group" prongs. If you were persecuted or fear future persecution on account of being an atheist back in Turkey, you should explore that theory. As per my prior suggestions consult with an immigration lawyer on the merits of the case. Even if the Turkish government is secular, if it can not protect your belief from a hostile religious majority, you may have a case.

In spite of the advances made by right-wing religious whackos in this country (the Bob Jones', Jerry Falwells' and Pat Robertsons' of this world) over the last few years, this country still does afford protection to atheists.

Good luck.
Click to expand...
 
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