EB1-OR thro a University
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EB1OR denial
I am a full time faculty member at a top medical school, with credentials to get a EB1OR.
But my EB1OR was denied in 2006 from NSC. Even I thought, there are no EB1OR denials, but infact there are many, its just people dont want to post them.
I am currently waiting for my EB2 NIW, and ready to apply again for EB1OR and EB1EA.
The denial letter was really ridiculous...but what can you expect from NSC. We all know what USCIS is capable of doing.
I am a full time faculty member at a top medical school, with credentials to get a EB1OR.
But my EB1OR was denied in 2006 from NSC. Even I thought, there are no EB1OR denials, but infact there are many, its just people dont want to post them.
I am currently waiting for my EB2 NIW, and ready to apply again for EB1OR and EB1EA.
The denial letter was really ridiculous...but what can you expect from NSC. We all know what USCIS is capable of doing.
Yeah, I have heard from EB1-OR denials as well. And just as dnastar said pretty ridiculous denial letters. On the upside the substantially same petition went through after my colleague resubmitted it with PP (a few days after the denial).
If you need any more proof that there is no system to this madness, thats it. They probably just have a spin-wheel behind them that automatically generates random RFEs, denial letters or approval notices.
If you need any more proof that there is no system to this madness, thats it. They probably just have a spin-wheel behind them that automatically generates random RFEs, denial letters or approval notices.
At least in my place one person got a nasty RFE. Because of this our univ. had stopped sponsoring OR for quite some time. Still the weather is not clear.
It is a very tricky situation for the Univ. You say some one is outstanding but based on what standard? more publications? more citations? more awards? you may have one nature and one science. for scientific community it is a big achievement. but not for the guy sitting there at NSC. for him it is just one or two papers.
I heard at least in one of the univ all Ph.D students need to have 3 papers before their submission. For the administrative people a JACS communications is same as a paper from talanta or similar low IF journal. Number counts and not the quality.
So I very well know quantity matters for these people and not quality.
I am anticipating a RFE even before filing. I am also hoping not to get "denial". who knows what will happen??.
It is a very tricky situation for the Univ. You say some one is outstanding but based on what standard? more publications? more citations? more awards? you may have one nature and one science. for scientific community it is a big achievement. but not for the guy sitting there at NSC. for him it is just one or two papers.
I heard at least in one of the univ all Ph.D students need to have 3 papers before their submission. For the administrative people a JACS communications is same as a paper from talanta or similar low IF journal. Number counts and not the quality.
So I very well know quantity matters for these people and not quality.
I am anticipating a RFE even before filing. I am also hoping not to get "denial". who knows what will happen??.
I was really counting on my EB-1OR petition bit as discussed above it seems nothing is certain as per USCIS standards. This is the reason I'm applying for H1b form private employer also. My case seems to be a little week as I have just 2 yrs of Res Associate experience after PhD...
Eb1-or
Well, thanks for keeping the thread alive.
When I applied, I really thought EB1-OR was a sure shot and was just darn confident. Then the reality hit and it was a hard pill to swallow, more because it hurts your ego that some idiot who has no background judges your work.
In anycase, here is what I learnt, EB1-OR was an attractive choice, I know many of my colleagues and even one of my post docs got theirs approved. However, when I applied the premium processing just came into effect. I was one of the first to use PP, I was warned against using it, but I didnt listen cause I thought it would have no effect. But in hindsight, it did make a negative impact.
In less than 4 days after applying for PP, I got a generic RFE asking me to send everything that I sent. I went to a top lawyer, shelled out big bucks and sent the RFE. (The University declined to assist me with the RFE, as they didnt want to take responsibility). Most universities dont have lawyers, the international office has trained staff in these applications.
So, the lawyer went overboard and maybe borderline offensive in responding to the RFE clearly stating that it was unwarranted and I beefed my application with 'n' number of citations, media reports and additional reference letters and a sharp covering letter.
However, the denial came after 10 days of receipt of the RFE. The denial was in detail praising me every other line but asking for major awards like a nobel prize and also coming down heavily on a letter in which my PhD work was described.
All I can say now is I am just tired of all these applications and have just left it to 'luck' to get these petitions approved. Of course there is no harm in submitting a strong petition with a good lawyer.
I would like to say that these petitions are getting more scrutiny because too many people started applying without the necessary credentials. But having said that, there is nothing wrong for anyone out there to apply and have a shot.
In the future, this approval process must be objective than subjective. Clear norms must be established like a point system.
Good luck to all of those out there and I dont intend to freak out any EB1OR petitions. Just sharing my experience and thoughts.
Well, thanks for keeping the thread alive.
When I applied, I really thought EB1-OR was a sure shot and was just darn confident. Then the reality hit and it was a hard pill to swallow, more because it hurts your ego that some idiot who has no background judges your work.
In anycase, here is what I learnt, EB1-OR was an attractive choice, I know many of my colleagues and even one of my post docs got theirs approved. However, when I applied the premium processing just came into effect. I was one of the first to use PP, I was warned against using it, but I didnt listen cause I thought it would have no effect. But in hindsight, it did make a negative impact.
In less than 4 days after applying for PP, I got a generic RFE asking me to send everything that I sent. I went to a top lawyer, shelled out big bucks and sent the RFE. (The University declined to assist me with the RFE, as they didnt want to take responsibility). Most universities dont have lawyers, the international office has trained staff in these applications.
So, the lawyer went overboard and maybe borderline offensive in responding to the RFE clearly stating that it was unwarranted and I beefed my application with 'n' number of citations, media reports and additional reference letters and a sharp covering letter.
However, the denial came after 10 days of receipt of the RFE. The denial was in detail praising me every other line but asking for major awards like a nobel prize and also coming down heavily on a letter in which my PhD work was described.
All I can say now is I am just tired of all these applications and have just left it to 'luck' to get these petitions approved. Of course there is no harm in submitting a strong petition with a good lawyer.
I would like to say that these petitions are getting more scrutiny because too many people started applying without the necessary credentials. But having said that, there is nothing wrong for anyone out there to apply and have a shot.
In the future, this approval process must be objective than subjective. Clear norms must be established like a point system.
Good luck to all of those out there and I dont intend to freak out any EB1OR petitions. Just sharing my experience and thoughts.
Honestly, I have nothing against anyone. but what you wrote is 100 % true.
I think many people think it is a privilege to apply rather than true credentials. because of this too many (like me) needs to apply in more than one category.
After reading this forum I found out so many people who does not even qualify 50% apply and get rejected and start blaming the system.
may be if there is a self evaluation test or some thing like that to filter out most of these cases, then the things will be much better.
Many people are jumping to OR because EB2 is unavailable (at least for India) and highly retrogressed for China. So those who are in the border line try to push through OR and this creates more backlog.
so what we have seen so far may change.
Sorry to hear that, dnastar. I wish you a better luck this time around.
Yes, there are denials for EB1-OR. I personally know a junior faculty (on tenure track) her EB1-OR was denied when she was in a top medical school (a very famous one in Baltimore, in case you wonder
). This whole EB-1/NIW process is just like lottery; at the end, the determining factor of a successful case is (sadly) your luck rather than your merit.
As for quantity vs. quality of publications...my opinion is both matter, particularly for EB-1 cases. I do feel, however, it all comes down to how you are going to stand out among the other guys in your field. Granted, there are some clueless IOs who cannot tell Science or Nature from those "nameless" journals, and they may not know whether xx citations is a good number or not, but as long as you can show them that your publications/citations (maybe more emphasis on citations these days?) are among the top of your field, then you have a good chance to sail through.
Yes, there are denials for EB1-OR. I personally know a junior faculty (on tenure track) her EB1-OR was denied when she was in a top medical school (a very famous one in Baltimore, in case you wonder
). This whole EB-1/NIW process is just like lottery; at the end, the determining factor of a successful case is (sadly) your luck rather than your merit.As for quantity vs. quality of publications...my opinion is both matter, particularly for EB-1 cases. I do feel, however, it all comes down to how you are going to stand out among the other guys in your field. Granted, there are some clueless IOs who cannot tell Science or Nature from those "nameless" journals, and they may not know whether xx citations is a good number or not, but as long as you can show them that your publications/citations (maybe more emphasis on citations these days?) are among the top of your field, then you have a good chance to sail through.
eb1 -or denied
Hi DNAstar,
I have got a denial notice in the EB1-OR ctegory in mid april. In short, the officer was not convinced at all that I satisfy any of the criteria. I have a research assistant professorship at a medial school and my contract is renewed yearly. The IO claims that I don't have a permanent position. Also, he refused to accept my collaborative papers where I was not the first author as my publication even though I had significant contribution to those papers.
Currently, I'm appealing the denial. I'm also submitting a EB2-NIW petiton. I was wondering about your current status. What other options do I have?
My university is not agreeing to a labor cert until now. I'm trying to convince them. Do you think changing job to industry would be a better option?
Hi DNAstar,
I have got a denial notice in the EB1-OR ctegory in mid april. In short, the officer was not convinced at all that I satisfy any of the criteria. I have a research assistant professorship at a medial school and my contract is renewed yearly. The IO claims that I don't have a permanent position. Also, he refused to accept my collaborative papers where I was not the first author as my publication even though I had significant contribution to those papers.
Currently, I'm appealing the denial. I'm also submitting a EB2-NIW petiton. I was wondering about your current status. What other options do I have?
My university is not agreeing to a labor cert until now. I'm trying to convince them. Do you think changing job to industry would be a better option?
Hi EB1Denial,
I felt really bad about your denial. I've a relevant question here-Can a person or his dependent who appealed against the denial continue working using his/her EAD (obtained on the basis of concurrent filing) while the decision on appeal is pending? Or else the linked EAD is invalidated the time I140 is denied?
I felt really bad about your denial. I've a relevant question here-Can a person or his dependent who appealed against the denial continue working using his/her EAD (obtained on the basis of concurrent filing) while the decision on appeal is pending? Or else the linked EAD is invalidated the time I140 is denied?
I'm loosing confidence on my Eb-1 OR petiton after reading denials for people such as EB1 denial and dnastar......I'm working as Research Associate at one of the good university, and have about 14 research publications (7 first author). I have around 20 citations only since my work is relatively new and not yet studied by others. However, I'm just banking upon the letters of recommendations as they are from various prominent professors. Additionally, my current research work is based on the initiative of Dept of homeland security....
What do you guys think of my chances?? I had little over 2 yrs of experience when I applied for I-140...
What do you guys think of my chances?? I had little over 2 yrs of experience when I applied for I-140...
If you use a good lawyer that can greatly enhance your chances. Otherwise just lean back and wait. JerIst got an RFE with a much stronger resume than myself, I got through with no questions asked (both RFE). Thats proof that petitions are approved/rfe'd/denied randomly.
Thanks nscagony!! Looking at your case, it seems that your case got processed randomly (out of turn). Since the processing date at NSC for NIW is Feb 15 2007 and your RD is 10/23/2007. I also filed concurrently in EB-1OR category very close to when you filed but I haven't seen any LUD so far...
What's the reason you see for that? That means even my case can be processed any day??
What's the reason you see for that? That means even my case can be processed any day??
More info please...
Could you please post more details about your case? # of publications, citations etc. Did you get an RFE first? Straight denials are very rare, and if NSC (I'm assuming...) starts issuing straight denials, we should be worried. It is evident that expectations for OR cases range from being Nobel material to publishing 3-4 papers with a decent number of citations. In other words, the only thing definite is that it is a crapshoot!
Could you please post more details about your case? # of publications, citations etc. Did you get an RFE first? Straight denials are very rare, and if NSC (I'm assuming...) starts issuing straight denials, we should be worried. It is evident that expectations for OR cases range from being Nobel material to publishing 3-4 papers with a decent number of citations. In other words, the only thing definite is that it is a crapshoot!