DV2013 - education level

[nesalc]

Wondering which I should check of the education level boxes.

1) I have a high school degree.
2) I have completed a computer science degree which is a 2½ year study programme consisting of 5 semesters, but it does not take place at a university. But the semesters is accepted as part of a bachelor degree in computer science.

Would you check the "high scool degree" checkbox or the "some university courses"?

And does it matter which one I check?

Thanks,
Claus

 

[slash_dot]

Wondering which I should check of the education level boxes.

1) I have a high school degree.
2) I have completed a computer science degree which is a 2½ year study programme consisting of 5 semesters, but it does not take place at a university. But the semesters is accepted as part of a bachelor degree in computer science.

Would you check the "high scool degree" checkbox or the "some university courses"?

And does it matter which one I check?

Thanks,
Claus

I always assumed that "Some university courses" would assume that the individual was attending a university and studying there, but at the time of entering the DV-lottery had not finished and graduated yet.

My reasoning is because of the language used. The Checkbox says "University" instead of the more obvious distinction of "diploma" or "post high school course(s)/diploma," especially since the next Checkbox jumps to "University Degree." I suppose it very much depends whether the qualification in your home country is recognised in the US, High-School and University level qualifications tend to be cross recognised due to their prevalence, most others are not and thus not considered on the DV-lottery form.

It's far more interesting when you look further up the scale. An obvious language change is "Some graduate level courses" therefore it's safe to say that if any applicant has a diploma or qualification after his/her bachelor degree, this is the appropriate checkbox as it doesn't explicitly say "Some Master's degree level courses"

It's very dicey. If you read the forum you'll find that the majority of applicants are rejected at interview for two main reasons; (1) lack of/misrepresentation of educational qualifications (2) fake marriages/incorrectly filling out spouse/dependent part of E-DV application.

This is just my opinion, I'm not an expert, but it was my interpretation of the rules, ultimalely you will do what you feel is correct and can be explained at interview (should you be selected for further processing, good luck!)

 

[nesalc]

Your answer about "Some university courses" meaning currently attending university makes sense, I did not think of it that way.

/Claus

 

[verdite]

High School Degree???

@slash_dot and other knowledgable forumites, how would you describe a High School Degree?? If I have completed a 12 year course of elementary and secondary education and attained "O" levels should I enter High School Degree??? Your assistance will be greatly appriciated.

 

[slash_dot]

@slash_dot and other knowledgable forumites, how would you describe a High School Degree??

How I would describe High School Degree and how the DoS describes High School Degree I fear are two different things.

If I have completed a 12 year course of elementary and secondary education and attained "O" levels should I enter High School Degree??? Your assistance will be greatly appriciated.

"O" Levels, or "GCE Ordinary Levels" are generally the Commonwealth/British metric system for measuring educational attainment. "O" Levels are taken at the age of 16 in the UK (and most countries I believe).

As compulsory education begins at the age of 5 in the United Kingdom (and most countries), a GCSE/"O" level would only be 11 years of primary and secondary school education, and I don't think the applicant would be eligible to put "High School Degree." Someone with only "O" Levels or GCSEs may check "High School no degree" perhaps.

"AS Levels" are taken at 17, and "A Levels" taken at 18. If the applicant has A-Levels, my interpretation is that he/she may put down "High School Degree" as this is the next step and requirement before being accepted to University. (For example South Africa recognises AS-Levels as equivalent to Matric but not GCSE/"O" Levels.)

This is where the water becomes murky. In the United States, compulsory education usually ends at 18, not 16 or 17 as in most countries, but this can vary by state, for example in New Mexico, the period of compulsory education is 5–18, in Alabama it's 7–16, Compulsory Education can start anywhere between at 5 to 8 years of age. The DV-Lottery rules state;

"To enter the DV program, you must meet either the education or work experience requirement of the DV program: You must have either a [U]high school education[/U] or [U]its equivalent[/U], defined as [U]successful completion of a 12-year course of elementary and secondary education[/U]"

As "O" Levels are taken at 16, and compulsory schooling starts at 5 in most countries, this would total 11 years, an applicant would need to have at least AS-Levels to qualify, and A-Levels (18) to select "High School Degree"

Again, this is my interpretation of the rules. I'm not an expert.

What country are you in verdite?

Good luck.

 

[Samusoni]

How I would describe High School Degree and how the DoS describes High School Degree I fear are two different things.



"O" Levels, or "GCE Ordinary Levels" are generally the Commonwealth/British metric system for measuring educational attainment. "O" Levels are taken at the age of 16 in the UK (and most countries I believe).

As compulsory education begins at the age of 5 in the United Kingdom (and most countries), a GCSE/"O" level would only be 11 years of primary and secondary school education, and I don't think the applicant would be eligible to put "High School Degree." Someone with only "O" Levels or GCSEs may check "High School no degree" perhaps.

"AS Levels" are taken at 17, and "A Levels" taken at 18. If the applicant has A-Levels, my interpretation is that he/she may put down "High School Degree" as this is the next step and requirement before being accepted to University. (For example South Africa recognises AS-Levels as equivalent to Matric but not GCSE/"O" Levels.)
...
As "O" Levels are taken at 16, and compulsory schooling starts at 5 in most countries, this would total 11 years, an applicant would need to have at least AS-Levels to qualify, and A-Levels (18) to select "High School Degree"

Again, this is my interpretation of the rules. I'm not an expert.

What country are you in verdite?

Good luck.

My pips received a letter from the embassy stating the following : "... Before you proceed any further, please review the requirements of the DV program and ensure that you are qualified. U.S. law and regulations require that every diversity visa entrant must have at least a high school education or its equivalent; or have within the past five years, two years of work experience in a qualifying occupation. For <Country>, successful passage in at least 5 subjects during your Ordinary Examinations is considered a high school equivalent. ..."

SO, O'level is good enough...and A'level is even better. My pips have Masters degrees, so it doesn't affect them.

 

[slash_dot]

My pips received a letter from the embassy stating the following : "... Before you proceed any further, please review the requirements of the DV program and ensure that you are qualified. U.S. law and regulations require that every diversity visa entrant must have at least a high school education or its equivalent; or have within the past five years, two years of work experience in a qualifying occupation. For <Country>, successful passage in at least 5 subjects during your Ordinary Examinations is considered a high school equivalent. ..."

SO, O'level is good enough...and A'level is even better. My pips have Masters degrees, so it doesn't affect them.

That's really interesting. In Australia you must complete 6th form to be eligible (which would imply AS/A-Level-type qualifications .e.g. TEE) The US embassy in Nepal also states "DV winners must have the equivalent of twelve years of formal education at a minimum to qualify for a visa. In Nepal, this is Intermediate (+2 or A levels)"

It doesn't surprise me that different places have different standards, it's just interesting to see how much they vary.

 

[raevsky]

Level of education that is enough to be considered for admission to any bachelor program at any university of your country is the level equivalent to us high school degree.
For Australia it is "'12th Year' Certificate from any state"

I have completed a computer science degree which is a 2½ year study programme consisting of 5 semesters, but it does not take place at a university.

What kind of degree?

 

[verdite]

@slash_dot I'm in Zimbabwe and after yoi do ur O Levels you move on to do Advance levels. Which is two years then you can move on to University. So can we safely say a high school degree would be the sucessful completion of A Levels??? Anyone else who can chip in?? But if one enters High School, No Degree then are you still eligible because I believe I once read somewhere that a High School Degree is the successful completion of a 12 year course of elementary and secondary school.

So if I enter High School, No Degree then it means I haven't finished a 12 year course of elementary and secondary school. Which ultimately means I won't qualify though this route.....

Anyone???

 

[slash_dot]

@slash_dot I'm in Zimbabwe and after yoi do ur O Levels you move on to do Advance levels. Which is two years then you can move on to University. So can we safely say a high school degree would be the sucessful completion of A Levels??? Anyone else who can chip in?? But if one enters High School, No Degree then are you still eligible because I believe I once read somewhere that a High School Degree is the successful completion of a 12 year course of elementary and secondary school.

So if I enter High School, No Degree then it means I haven't finished a 12 year course of elementary and secondary school. Which ultimately means I won't qualify though this route.....

Anyone???

Mhoro!

In the Zimbabwe days of old once your O-Levels were complete, you did M-Levels, and once you M-Levels were complete you did your A levels, I do not know how this works in Zimbabwe for sure any more, and with A-Levels you applied for University.

Definitely if you have A-Levels you will have a High-School degree. I personally think that because of the high standards of education in Zimbabwe, a ZIMSEC "O" level GCE certificate will be the equivalent of a US High School Degree.

Good luck my friend.

 

[Qewty]

I spent a little bit of time thinking about this question also, as I have finished Year 12 (Australia) and have also commenced University studies. I think because I have read experiences of those rejected for not having Year 12 that I actually answered that way (that I had completed my 12 years of schooling). It could be argued, in Australia at least, that studying at University does not necessarily mean you have done 12 years of schooling, especially that mature age and open university is an option for those without Year 12. I will bring evidence of my University studies with me should I be lucky to get an interview.

Proving I have my Year 12 is more important at this stage than my further studies.

Q

 

[slash_dot]

I spent a little bit of time thinking about this question also, as I have finished Year 12 (Australia) and have also commenced University studies. I think because I have read experiences of those rejected for not having Year 12 that I actually answered that way (that I had completed my 12 years of schooling). It could be argued, in Australia at least, that studying at University does not necessarily mean you have done 12 years of schooling, especially that mature age and open university is an option for those without Year 12. I will bring evidence of my University studies with me should I be lucky to get an interview.

Proving I have my Year 12 is more important at this stage than my further studies.

Q

Exactly! It's so strange. Samusoni says that they take GCSEs (O levels) in some cases which is taken at 16 to be the High School US equivalent!

In the case of Australia there are cases where people have been rejected at the interview from this forum for not having their full Year 12 completion certificate which occurs at 17/18. Even if they've gone to university later and actually progressed beyond year 12.

The variation is very interesting indeed.

 

[Arekee]

@Slash_dot,well said man?

 

[raevsky]

Beech1814 had an equivalency certificate that is not recognized as an equivalent of high school education. That is why he was denied.

 

[Qewty]

Yes, I had Beech in my mind when I wrote my reply, and also when I was filling in my application!

I had a transcript of my results from Year 12, and recently contacted them for a full certificate - I don't want to experience any question that I had not finished it

 

[slash_dot]

Beech1814 had an equivalency certificate that is not recognized as an equivalent of high school education. That is why he was denied.

Which is what makes it so strange. If the Australian Education Board was happy to certify his qualifications were equivalent or exceeded year 12 I personally don't see the problem. And to be fair to Beech1814, he also had an offer from a:

University to study for a 4 yr bachelors degree, ranking scores from my local government, and also an assessment by a US evaluator that proves my high school diploma

In other words, quite a bit of evidence.

At the end of day, the US Consulate wanted that one piece of paper to prove he graduated, basically at 18. Had Beech1814 sat O Levels/IGCEs in a different country, he'd have qualified at 16. This is where some confusion stems from I believe.

Page 10 of the Official DV-Lottery pdf says:

There is no minimum age to apply for the program, but the requirement of a high school education or work experience for each principal applicant at the time of application will effectively disqualify most persons who are under age 18.

Which is interesting in light of the fact a massive proportion of eligible countries for the DV-lottery in the world uses the (I)GCE/O Level system, which if equivalent to a US High School degree, would in fact mean such applicants are actually eligible at 16 (insofar as the educational requirements are concerned anyway).

I think this is in the very nature of the DV-lottery, though. Not everything is fair. Some people from countries that have conscription and are nationals from non-English speaking countries for example have to worry about producing military records and translations, others will not have to give such things a second thought.

At least Beech1814 won, I've never met him, but he sounds like a good person. Statistically speaking I will never win the lottery, but that doesn't stop me from trying I suppose.

Good luck all!

 

[Qewty]

Statistically speaking I will never win the lottery, but that doesn't stop me from trying I suppose.

Good luck all!

Why do you say you will never win the lottery? If you enter, you have a chance like all others if you meet the criteria.

I wish everyone who truly wants to win, and not just enter for the fun of it, to be given their chance. You have equal chance with all others


Q

 

[raevsky]

Which is what makes it so strange. If the Australian Education Board was happy to certify his qualifications were equivalent or exceeded year 12 I personally don't see the problem.

In addition to general requirement that education should be enough to consider being admitted to any university in the country where the education was obtained, there are a number of limitations on top of that:
1. It should be a formal course of education.
2. As a consequence of p.1, correspondence education does not count. It should be in-person education.
3. As a consequence of p.1, GED ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Educational_Development ) does not count. GED is an american equivalent of high school education, enough to be considered for admission to US universities, but it is not a formal course, that is an equivalency exam.

I suspect beech1814 had a problem with p.2 or p.3
Beech1814 wrote he had to do equivalency evaluation. Consulates do not do that, and they do not recognize any equivalency certificates. So, I suspect he was trying to apply an Australian equivalent of GED (enough to consider being admitted) for DV lottery (not recognized for DV purposes)

 

[sab355]

hi i have entered high school ,no degree as i thought it ment ive completed high school but i do not have a degree. Im from Autralia i have completed high school but never went onto uni and i also have diplomas will my form be rejected?