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DV Lottery when adopted

S

SetsuTheYena

New Member
Hi.

I have a question that I can't seem to get any clear answer for anywhere and it makes me rather nervous, seeing as the DV2017 is coming closer.

I wish to take part this year, but the fact is that I'm adopted from a country that's not eligible to take part (Colombia).

Though I was adopted at the age of 3 months by a danish couple. Both are born in Denmark, citizens and have lived here their entire lives, just like I have.

I have heard I can claim chargeability to my parents country and still be able to take part, with a chance to win. Is that true?

How will the DV lottery even work for a person that's adopted?
 
SetsuTheYena said:
Hi.

I have a question that I can't seem to get any clear answer for anywhere and it makes me rather nervous, seeing as the DV2017 is coming closer.

I wish to take part this year, but the fact is that I'm adopted from a country that's not eligible to take part (Colombia).

Though I was adopted at the age of 3 months by a danish couple. Both are born in Denmark, citizens and have lived here their entire lives, just like I have.

I have heard I can claim chargeability to my parents country and still be able to take part, with a chance to win. Is that true?

How will the DV lottery even work for a person that's adopted?
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If your country of birth is not eligible, I don't think you can charge to your adoptive parents' country of birth either, or have I misunderstood your question?
 
Sm1smom said:
If your country of birth is not eligible, I don't think you can charge to your adoptive parents' country of birth either, or have I misunderstood your question?
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I agree - that is what I have already advised the OP also via my blog.
 
It is correct, but I don't see why it shouldn't be possible? I'm pretty sure I have read somewhere that one can get chargeability to their parents country, if both are from an eligible country?

"
Eligibility
Requirement #1: Individuals born in countries whose natives qualify may be eligible to enter.
If you were not born in an eligible country, there are two other ways you might be able to qualify.
 Was your spouse born in a country whose natives are eligible? If yes, you can claim your
spouse’s country of birth—provided that both you and your spouse are named on the selected
entry, are issued diversity visas, and enter the United States simultaneously.
 Were you born in a country whose natives are ineligible, but in which neither of your parents
was born or legally resident at the time of your birth? If yes, you may claim the country of birth "

I can't see why that shouldn't apply to adopted children?
 
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SetsuTheYena said:
It is correct, but I don't see why it shouldn't be possible? I'm pretty sure I have read somewhere that one can get chargeability to their parents country, if both are from an eligible country?

"
Eligibility
Requirement #1: Individuals born in countries whose natives qualify may be eligible to enter.
If you were not born in an eligible country, there are two other ways you might be able to qualify.
 Was your spouse born in a country whose natives are eligible? If yes, you can claim your
spouse’s country of birth—provided that both you and your spouse are named on the selected
entry, are issued diversity visas, and enter the United States simultaneously.
 Were you born in a country whose natives are ineligible, but in which neither of your parents
was born or legally resident at the time of your birth? If yes, you may claim the country of birth "

I can't see why that shouldn't apply to adopted children?
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Chargeability to parents' country of birth is only applicable to birth parents, not adoptive parents.

Just so you're aware, charging to birth parents isn't even as straight forward as it sounds FYI. In order to charge to one's parents' country of birth, one would need to prove the parents were temporary residents of the country in which one was born. So tell me, if you're thinking charging to your adopted parents' country of birth should be applicable to your case, how do you intend to prove your birth parents' presence in Colombia is of a temporary nature?
 
They're not temporary. Both of my parents are born in Denmark, have lived in Denmark their entire life and only came to Colombia, me at the age of 3 months, to come pick me up and return home.

I have lived in Denmark my entire life, is a full out citizen, got my education here and worked here. They're my parents and have always been. I didn't have any parents before they adopted me, so I should be fully tied to them and their country... My country.

I can't see why I have to be cut off then, just because I am so unfortunate to be born in a country that's not eligible. It just isn't fair to have me tied to that country...

Is my only chance really having to go the US and try find some guy to marry, if I wish to stay?
 
SetsuTheYena said:
They're not temporary. Both of my parents are born in Denmark, have lived in Denmark their entire life and only came to Colombia, me at the age of 3 months, to come pick me up and return home.

I have lived in Denmark my entire life, is a full out citizen, got my education here and worked here. They're my parents and have always been. I didn't have any parents before they adopted me, so I should be fully tied to them and their country... My country.

I can't see why I have to be cut off then, just because I am so unfortunate to be born in a country that's not eligible. It just isn't fair to have me tied to that country...

Is my only chance really having to go the US and try find some guy to marry, if I wish to stay?
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There are MANY people who are not eligible through their country of birth (including myself). So it may not seem fair to you, but the point is you were born in Columbia to Columbian parents. At a later point you were adopted - BUT the rules are based on the place and time of BIRTH.

As I have already explained the missionary exception (eligibility through parents place of birth) does not apply in your case.
 
SetsuTheYena said:
They're not temporary. Both of my parents are born in Denmark, have lived in Denmark their entire life and only came to Colombia, me at the age of 3 months, to come pick me up and return home.

I have lived in Denmark my entire life, is a full out citizen, got my education here and worked here. They're my parents and have always been. I didn't have any parents before they adopted me, so I should be fully tied to them and their country... My country.

I can't see why I have to be cut off then, just because I am so unfortunate to be born in a country that's not eligible. It just isn't fair to have me tied to that country...

Is my only chance really having to go the US and try find some guy to marry, if I wish to stay?
Click to expand...

Why don't you just marry a native-born Dane and then enter through his chargeability? (What's with the desperation, anyway? You have all of Europe to choose from, but you're sounding like someone from a desperately poor developing country?!)

It may not seem fair to you - there are many people to whom the rules seem unfair for one reason or another - but they have to have rules, and they have to stick to them.
 
Unfortunately, the DV rules are very clear. You were born in Columbia. Your citizenship, education don't matter when it comes to the DV rules.
 
SetsuTheYena said:
They're not temporary. Both of my parents are born in Denmark, have lived in Denmark their entire life and only came to Colombia, me at the age of 3 months, to come pick me up and return home.

I have lived in Denmark my entire life, is a full out citizen, got my education here and worked here. They're my parents and have always been. I didn't have any parents before they adopted me, so I should be fully tied to them and their country... My country.

I can't see why I have to be cut off then, just because I am so unfortunate to be born in a country that's not eligible. It just isn't fair to have me tied to that country...

Is my only chance really having to go the US and try find some guy to marry, if I wish to stay?
Click to expand...

You're obviously refusing to see the explanation that's calmly been presented to you. Yeah, life isn't fair, that's something everyone has to deal with in one form or the other.

By all means, go ahead and apply for the DV by charging to your adopted parents country of birth. If you're fortunate enough to be selected, spend your time and money on getting your medical exam and the necessary documents and be prepared for the possibility of a heart breaking denial that at the end of the interview.
 
Sorry to disagree with some of this board's most respected stalwarts, but I think the best that anyone can say on this matter is that the OP's situation is uncertain. I haven't seen anything anywhere that says that the reference to your parents' country of birth means your biological parents. On the other hand, for family sponsorship purposes, USCIS provides that:

an adopted child is considered, for immigration purposes, to be the child (or adult son or daughter) of the adopting parent if:
  • The parent adopted the child before his or her 16th birthday (or before the 18th birthday under certain circumstances as described below). You submit evidence of a full and final adoption
    AND
  • The parent had legal and physical custody of the child for at least two years while the child was a minor
    • The legal custody must have been the result of a formal grant of custody from a court or other governmental entity
    • The custody and residence requirement may be met by custody and residence that preceded the adoption
    • The two years custody and residence requirements are waived for certain abused children
(See http://www.uscis.gov/adoption/immigration-through-adoption/other-adoption-related-immigration).

It seems to me that the OP fits this description which means that, at least for family sponsorship purposes, his/her Danish parents would be considered to be his/her biological parents. I know we're talking about the DV lottery here and not family sponsorship but it would seem incongruous to have a legal definition that was one thing for one purpose and entirely different for another (related) purpose.

OP, I don't think your case is necessarily bound to result in
Sm1smom said:
heart breaking denial.
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What I do think is that you need to consult an immigration lawyer who can attest to your precise status under US law. The best anyone here can honestly say is 'I don't know'.
 
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And if immigration via family reunion requirements were to apply for DV, then the above advice would be correct. If.
 
EmilyW said:
And if immigration via family reunion requirements were to apply for DV, then the above advice would be correct. If.
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With respect, my point is that if you have a legal definition of 'parent' for one area of immigration law, then you have a strong argument (but not necessarily an infallible one) that the same definition applies in another area of immigration law. That's why I advised the OP to seek legal advice from a practitioner who can tell him/her either way if that's actually the case.

The OP's been advised by everyone to give up at the first sign of trouble. I just don't think that's necessarily what he/she ought to do just yet, without gathering further information. Nor do I think that he or she is going to get a definitive answer from this board on the nuances of US immigration law.
 
EmilyW said:
With respect, I got your point, hence my post. Note the 'If' at the end.
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Apologies, my misunderstanding. I thought that you were saying that my advice was incorrect because family reunion rules don't apply to DV cases.

Interesting case though. Do some more digging OP and good luck!
 
While understanding the reasons for caution on interpretation, I agree with Emily that the rules above are aimed at deciding who can legitimately immigrate as a derivative or relative rather than being used to alter chargeability. Of course, agree there is nothing stopping the OP paying a lawyer should they enter and win. As with the vast majority of threads like this, the question will probably remain hypothetical.
 
2014hopeful said:
Sorry to disagree with some of this board's most respected stalwarts, but I think the best that anyone can say on this matter is that the OP's situation is uncertain. I haven't seen anything anywhere that says that the reference to your parents' country of birth means your biological parents. On the other hand, for family sponsorship purposes, USCIS provides that:

an adopted child is considered, for immigration purposes, to be the child (or adult son or daughter) of the adopting parent if:
  • The parent adopted the child before his or her 16th birthday (or before the 18th birthday under certain circumstances as described below). You submit evidence of a full and final adoption
    AND
  • The parent had legal and physical custody of the child for at least two years while the child was a minor
    • The legal custody must have been the result of a formal grant of custody from a court or other governmental entity
    • The custody and residence requirement may be met by custody and residence that preceded the adoption
    • The two years custody and residence requirements are waived for certain abused children
(See http://www.uscis.gov/adoption/immigration-through-adoption/other-adoption-related-immigration).

It seems to me that the OP fits this description which means that, at least for family sponsorship purposes, his/her Danish parents would be considered to be his/her biological parents. I know we're talking about the DV lottery here and not family sponsorship but it would seem incongruous to have a legal definition that was one thing for one purpose and entirely different for another (related) purpose.

OP, I don't think your case is necessarily bound to result in


What I do think is that you need to consult an immigration lawyer who can attest to your precise status under US law. The best anyone here can honestly say is 'I don't know'.
Click to expand...

No one is saying the OP cannot be considered the legal child of the parents. But that is NOT the point. The point is that DV eligibility is based on PLACE OF BIRTH. Not citizenship/nationality or parents citizenship/nationality.

There is an exception (called the missionary exception) where a person is allowed to claim chargeability to the parents place of birth - BUT that is for cases where the actual place of birth was a place where the parents had no ties and were visiting at the time of the birth. So - that does not apply in this case even though none of us are saying the parents are not the legal parents.

Now - both Sm1smom and I mentioned that we were uncertain of the outcome (my response was on my blog). But to be honest that uncertainty (in my mind) comes more from a mistake that could be made by the CO (either a real mistake, or a CO ignoring the rules). I am pretty much certain that the time and place of birth would cause the OP to be ineligible, but there is some small chance of a positive outcome - so you could guess that to be around 1% chance.

So - the OP is talking about entering DV2017. She will have about a 1 in 200 chance of getting selected (in other words she could apply one time a year for the next 200 years and only get selected one time). If she got selected and chose to process the case, she would have about 1 in 100 chance of passing the interview. Not great odds to get worked up over...
 
Every year we see people who are disqualified because they were born in a non-eligible country, even if they never had nationality there and never really lived there. These people also see the rules as unfair. It doesn't seem to me that the situation is any different, especially as the OP was adopted at 3 months and not right at birth.

Of course in the small chance the OP is selected and advised s/he can go this route, evidence of everything will be needed - so proof would be needed that the parents were not resident in Colombia at the time of birth (even though they were not parents at birth...and the biological parents were presumably resident... see getting very murky already here). And this is where a number of these cases fall down even if they are straightforward under the exception, because not everyone has kept passports and other records going back 20-plus years.
 
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