Don't expect anything from the current administration.

[Jackolantern]

You will lose all sorts of arguments and look pretty stupid when you are trying to justify/argue that people need greencard to make all types of contributions that they currently can't make. In reality; people who are making less then $150,000 aren't "skilled" in business definition. Maybe in immigration sense but not business sense.

There are people who have the money and desire to start a company, but lack of the green card is preventing them from doing so (including myself). There are people who would be promoted to management, but aren't because they don't have a green card yet and the management position would be too different from the original job. There are those who would be making the $150,000 now if they weren't stuck in the green card process.

Of course, it is hard to say who will start a company or get promoted to a big-money position. However, it is easy to find people who got a green card via EB3 or EB2 within the past 6 years and are now running their own company or in a six-figure management position. And for sure very few of them (or none) would be doing that if they were still stuck in the green card process.

I don't know where you get this crazy notion that everybody below extraordinary is worthless. Without the millions of less-than-superstar people, this economy could not function. Whether somebody is making $30,000 or $30 million, once you let them into the country and let them pursue permanency it does no good to the economy to hold them back from maximizing their contributions, even if "maximizing" is only $20,000 more than what they are doing now.

 

[sfmars]

US Phd without greencard

Not everybody in extraordinary ability has ph.d. Careful your wife may get upset at you. Looks like you are equating her skill/contribution to eb1 category

My brother is Ph.d. Professer at a name school (Ph.d at University of Chicago; Post Doctorate at Harvard Medical School). He has been in USA for 14 years and hasn't even started the greencard process yet. He simply doesn't care and pursues life decisions without regard to greencard. The people who have the high skills are least bothered with greencard because nothing changes for them (they already make a lot of money and are pretty much set in what they do).

You will lose all sorts of arguments and look pretty stupid when you are trying to justify/argue that people need greencard to make all types of contributions that they currently can't make. In reality; people who are making less then $150,000 aren't "skilled" in business definition. Maybe in immigration sense but not business sense.

Phd Professor in US University and who does not care about his greencard .....?????? I can believe in it only if he has other another secret (illegal) job for living, and position of Professor in University it is just hobby for him

But seriously ... Professor who teaches students doesn't earn a lot of money doing only that. He must do research probably be in cahrge of his lab (that obliges him to do research job) and of course that maximum of his salary comes from grants.

Unfortunately huge grants can not be given to someone who is not citizen or at least does not have greencards, the same like scholarships for students.

Generaly there is no future for US Professor who is not permanent here.

May be you did not see your brother those 14 years and it is high time to ask him about his second life.

 

[EB2_012004]

This is off topic, but after reading this I couldn't resist commenting.

Everyone is free to state their opinion, but anyone who has done PhD will find techy2468 comment "i dont count Phd as a acheivement...." to be full of ignorance. I did my PhD in the US and I have many friends with PhD. Each and every one of them considers PhD as an achievement. Only those who have gone through the rigors of doctoral research can appreciate the challenge. People like techy have no idea how exhilarating one feels after dissertation defense, when doctoral committee chairperson comes out of examination room and shakes candidates hand to congratulate him/her and refers him/her as Doctor. I bet those on this forum who have finished their PhD here in the United States or anywhere else will appreciate this every bit.

i dont count Phd as a acheivement....

.

 

[nyc8300]

I don't think Techy was suggesting about Phd's in general. He was talking about his wife's PhD hat got him in th EB-1 category. I think he earns a lot more than his wife and can't take it on his ego that his wife got him through...; hence the brush off....

This is off topic, but after reading this I couldn't resist commenting.

Everyone is free to state their opinion, but anyone who has done PhD will find techy2468 comment "i dont count Phd as a acheivement...." to be full of ignorance. I did my PhD in the US and I have many friends with PhD. Each and every one of them considers PhD as an achievement. Only those who have gone through the rigors of doctoral research can appreciate the challenge. People like techy have no idea how exhilarating one feels after dissertation defense, when doctoral committee chairperson comes out of examination room and shakes candidates hand to congratulate him/her and refers him/her as Doctor. I bet those on this forum who have finished their PhD here in the United States or anywhere else will appreciate this every bit.

 

[nyc8300]

I agree! Worth is a very relative term. As you said the employer should say if a person is worthwhile or not. An educated/skilled candidate however would say that he is worth more in terms of potential earnings.
Retrogessed candidates just want out of any drag and are taking all the positives. Hopefully, all of us get out and remember to work as hard at work as we do at immigration.com....

I'm not disputing bill gates comments. I wish greencard for everyone. Hell; I know a person who tried extraordinary ability (denied); national interest waiver (denied); person finally got greencard by being sponsored as an administrative assistant at a muscial school with an offered salary of $29,000.

It is one of those things when people are talking about worth; outsourcing; skilled; math/sciences, etc., they think the policy makers/legislators are talking about themselves; however; I don't think that is the case.

 

[sfmars]

Phd is definitely achievement

This is off topic, but after reading this I couldn't resist commenting.

Everyone is free to state their opinion, but anyone who has done PhD will find techy2468 comment "i dont count Phd as a acheivement...." to be full of ignorance. I did my PhD in the US and I have many friends with PhD. Each and every one of them considers PhD as an achievement. Only those who have gone through the rigors of doctoral research can appreciate the challenge. People like techy have no idea how exhilarating one feels after dissertation defense, when doctoral committee chairperson comes out of examination room and shakes candidates hand to congratulate him/her and refers him/her as Doctor. I bet those on this forum who have finished their PhD here in the United States or anywhere else will appreciate this every bit.

Nobody is going to argue that Phd. is achievement.

If Post graduate student or Research Assoc. makes 30K but when his/her Phd. is defended he/she can be promoted to Post. Doc. and his/her salary can be 40K.

Unfortunatelly the only places where one can get benefits of the Phd is University with opportunity to file green card in EB1 category. In industry Phd. or master degree is rather disadvantage to find well paid job.

Manager of potential employer can say "What does that guy want ? He has Phd. but I am bachelor only, he wants to take over my position....."

 

[EB2_012004]

I am not sure what industry you are talking about. I totally agree that a PhD would be a disadvantage if ones job is to do Visual Basic, web development or Java programming because just about anyone with an inclination in computers can do it.

I am employed in the industry and not in academia. In my industry (oil and gas) there is plenty of scope for people with masters and PhDs. There are plenty of other industries including IT related companies which routinely seek doctorates in engineering, math, and sciences, Google is an example. They all make good money.

Nobody is going to argue that Phd. is achievement.

If Post graduate student or Research Assoc. makes 30K but when his/her Phd. is defended he/she can be promoted to Post. Doc. and his/her salary can be 40K.

Unfortunatelly the only places where one can get benefits of the Phd is University with opportunity to file green card in EB1 category. In industry Phd. or master degree is rather disadvantage to find well paid job.

Manager of potential employer can say "What does that guy want ? He has Phd. but I am bachelor only, he wants to take over my position....."

 

[indian_gc_ocean]

I am not sure what industry you are talking about. I totally agree that a PhD would be a disadvantage if ones job is to do Visual Basic, web development or Java programming because just about anyone with an inclination in computers can do it.

I am employed in the industry and not in academia. In my industry (oil and gas) there is plenty of scope for people with masters and PhDs. There are plenty of other industries including IT related companies which routinely seek doctorates in engineering, math, and sciences, Google is an example. They all make good money.

when techy says "I don't count...." thats techy's personal opinion. It is lot better than many of us who know one or two about a law and give bizarre explanations.

 

[sfmars]

I am not sure what industry you are talking about. I totally agree that a PhD would be a disadvantage if ones job is to do Visual Basic, web development or Java programming because just about anyone with an inclination in computers can do it.

I am employed in the industry and not in academia. In my industry (oil and gas) there is plenty of scope for people with masters and PhDs. There are plenty of other industries including IT related companies which routinely seek doctorates in engineering, math, and sciences, Google is an example. They all make good money.

I agree with you that there are some places, I would not agree when you say there are plenty places in industries.
Even if Phd. could make it (I mean to find job in industry) in this case it will be hard to be filed in EB1 category, too much factors need to be proven.

As I said I was serious in it .... Phd is definitely acheivement and advantage. It depends how you are going to use one and what is you future vision.

My friend got laid off recently because of grants shortage to support her research study. She has Phd. and half year ago got green card through her University in EB1 category. Whole process WITHOUT PAPER PREPARATIONS took her less than 6 months, she has plastic card in hands.

However she can not find Professor's position anywhere, what is she going to do is to go to work in school as a teacher. That is an example how Phd.s go to school.

 

[Jackolantern]

I was in the two hot beds of IT area. New Jersey and Bay Area. I can tell you from all the people I have met and talked to; greencard hasn't seemed to limit them. I'd estimate that probably 40% of the people on h-1b have a company (usually consulting); where they may be adding a layer to the h-1b company or taking commissions or even placing people.

Sure, some will find creative ways around the restrictions, but many others can't or won't do that, depending on the type of company they want to start ... especially if it isn't IT consulting. And they have to operate in ways that prevent them from maximizing the company's potential, in order to stay out of trouble with DOL or USCIS.

My point is, either let people in and let them be productive to the fullest, or don't let them in. I wish the GC quota restrictions were at the front end of the process rather than the back end. In other words, establish a quota for labor certifications instead of for I-485 approvals. For categories like some EB1 and Schedule A that don't need labor certifications, have a separate quota for their I-140s. If the annual quota is used up, you can't apply until the next year. But once you've been approved for the first stage (whether it is I-140 or labor cert), no quota should slow you from applying for I-485 or getting the GC approved. By that point it is purely up to the efficiency of USCIS for how fast it takes to be approved, not crazy guesswork and manipulation of priority dates.

Of course, a front-end quota would have to be higher than 140,000 in order to net the same approximate number of green cards, given that some people or companies will abandon the process. And it would make sense to add back approved labors and I-140s to the quota if they go haven't been used for the next stage within a certain time frame (maybe 90 or 120 days).

 

[perm_lc]

US needs skilled workers or not, If so, how much?, is it temporary or permanent? These are all debatable issues, like what you guys are discussing. You guys discussing too much, even law makers might have not thought about.

In bottom line, law makers and administration made big mistake in green card process, that makes potential immigrants life and career in limbo. It is nothing to do with skilled workers leaving US and US bussiness are affected etc...They should have controlled the number of applicants in first stage it self. LC should have been caped like H1B. If they allow 245 i or k, correspondingly they should have incresed the visa numbers. The bottom line is potential employment based immigrants are punished for the mistakes made by law makers and administration, by giving false hope to them. That is why this sysem is called "broken".

The reality is, most peoples lived more than 5 to 7 years in non-immigrant status wants to live permanently here, after blending with US socity. US department of labor and USCIS is accepting whoever files LC and immigrant petition without understanding howmuch is the numarical limitation. It has given a tremendous hope to immigrants once 140 gets approved. It is highly idiotic to hold the PR, for peoples who waited 3 to 4 years for LC, 1 to 2 years for 140. Now, still DOL accepting an EB3 LC for a Indian National. An EB3-Indian with PD 2007 can not imagine to file a 485 in next 20 years. There should be a job offer to him/her by the sponsering employer to file a 485 in 2027 as per the terms and conditions of the LC and 140 that was filed in 2007. It is something impossible and a joke.Therfore, testing the labor market in 2007 for a job oppertunity that is going to exist in 2027 is a hight of stupidity. Then why should DOL allow the employers to test the labor market now? Why does the DOL and USCIS still allow to continue for something imaginary, by wasting federal and employers money, time and energy?

Immigrants should not pay the price for the mistakes made by others. I feel that they should give PR to peoples (whether skilled or not) whoever lived legally for more than 6 years, provided if they got 140 approved and not able to get GC becuse of the mistakes of others.

 

[indian_gc_ocean]

For once I tend to agree with perm_lc. If we see the LC approvals from BECs and also through perm, the process really does not care about whether IT has demand or salary is high. These arguments are useless. Once, everybody is at I485 it is all about visa distribution among different categories for hard working people(different categories can take different time as long as the times are not abnormal). I think this is certainly broken no matter how we try to justify supply, demand, salary, talent.....

 

[Jackolantern]

In bottom line, law makers and administration made big mistake in green card process, that makes potential immigrants life and career in limbo. It is nothing to do with skilled workers leaving US and US bussiness are affected etc...They should have controlled the number of applicants in first stage it self. LC should have been caped like H1B.

Seems like you read my mind! My message with the same point posted shortly before yours ... did you see mine before typing yours?

 

[michael_holding]

This wasn't even worth responding to; however;

When people are saying they are so important then perhaps the employers should be saying so on your behalf.

From a business point of view; it would look pretty silly to go to ones superiors and say Ravi/Raj/Srinivas/Muhammad is so important that things would fall apart if they should leave. If ravi/raj/srinivas/muhammad are making $80,000 it would be pretty comical to say they are so important.

Salary is supposed to equal your worth/experience. After a few years of experience; just about every professional job is making that amount of money. No one in a business sense would consider someone a highly skilled worker unless their salary goes along with it. I haven't checked in a while but from what I remember; the point system in England gave points according to what your salary was in your home country. To get maximum points if you were from USA; I think the salary would be $250,000 U.S. to get the maximum number of points.

have you managed people?? i am sure you would have.
have you managed an IT department. if not maybe you do not know. retaining people is the most important thing not just in IT. the point is every one is important , what is the main difference is their level of importance.
i would say RAJ/muhammad/tom/john is important to the functioning of the company. I am assuming there are good at what they do. I am not talking about inventing things left and right..just being smart and good.

i think you should stick to what you know and not make sweeping generalizations, you are making pretty silly arguments. while i do understand where you are coming from and the idea people being innovative being important to the economy and US in general.
the reality is life/corporations just does not run with only CEOs..and CFOs.
A king without a kingdom/subjects is no king....
let us forget about immigrants and focus on the $150k exaclty how many citizens fo america make that kind of money? maybe 10% or 15% which is what 30million out of 300million. are you telling me that 270 million are somehow unskilled and hence can be replaced?

man i live in a IT hot bed and i can tell this much people want GC, the question of impact on a person's life is subjective. and not everyone land the perfect job the first time. some people hop around to finally settle down and having a GC or a stable situation helps. I am nor sure where that 40% number came from. did you do a scientific poll or something??

 

[perm_lc]

Seems like you read my mind! My message with the same point posted shortly before yours ... did you see mine before typing yours?

I did not read yours. Anyway, we have same thoughts. I was reading about discussions about who is skilled and who is not skilled and how to define "skill". I thought it was too much discussion. I do not agree who ever makes more than 150K is skilled. There may be a professor at MIT may be making less than $100K.

IT guys are lucky, I see lot of guys makes more than $100K in IT, and few guys makes less than $70K in Non-IT advanced field, in bio-technology, medical, aerospace, stem cell, nano technolgy etc.even they posses a advanced degree (MS/PHD) from US schools. Money is not a measure of skill.

 

[saras76]

Well said ...

US needs skilled workers or not, If so, how much?, is it temporary or permanent? These are all debatable issues, like what you guys are discussing. You guys discussing too much, even law makers might have not thought about.

In bottom line, law makers and administration made big mistake in green card process, that makes potential immigrants life and career in limbo. It is nothing to do with skilled workers leaving US and US bussiness are affected etc...They should have controlled the number of applicants in first stage it self. LC should have been caped like H1B. If they allow 245 i or k, correspondingly they should have incresed the visa numbers. The bottom line is potential employment based immigrants are punished for the mistakes made by law makers and administration, by giving false hope to them. That is why this sysem is called "broken".

The reality is, most peoples lived more than 5 to 7 years in non-immigrant status wants to live permanently here, after blending with US socity. US department of labor and USCIS is accepting whoever files LC and immigrant petition without understanding howmuch is the numarical limitation. It has given a tremendous hope to immigrants once 140 gets approved. It is highly idiotic to hold the PR, for peoples who waited 3 to 4 years for LC, 1 to 2 years for 140. Now, still DOL accepting an EB3 LC for a Indian National. An EB3-Indian with PD 2007 can not imagine to file a 485 in next 20 years. There should be a job offer to him/her by the sponsering employer to file a 485 in 2027 as per the terms and conditions of the LC and 140 that was filed in 2007. It is something impossible and a joke.Therfore, testing the labor market in 2007 for a job oppertunity that is going to exist in 2027 is a hight of stupidity. Then why should DOL allow the employers to test the labor market now? Why does the DOL and USCIS still allow to continue for something imaginary, by wasting federal and employers money, time and energy?

Immigrants should not pay the price for the mistakes made by others. I feel that they should give PR to peoples (whether skilled or not) whoever lived legally for more than 6 years, provided if they got 140 approved and not able to get GC becuse of the mistakes of others.

perm_lc,

I have followed this thread closely and it has been amusing to see the detailed analysis of who is skilled and who is not and who really deserves the GC and who does not.

You have rightly touched upon every issue affecting the legal immigrant community. I have maintained for the longest time that that the biggest culprit in all this is the system that has been put in place and the crazy ways in which laws have been passed and implemented without regard for the situation on the ground.

How can a system go from handing out GCs in 6-8 months a few years ago to what it is now. It simply boils down to a lack of oversight, foresight and proper planning.

At this point it really doesn't matter. The situation is what it is and we will have to just wait on another stupid law that may benefit some in the short term and will screw others in the long term. The law makers are incapable of coming up with provisions that will solve all problems that plague this system. Those of us who are currently stuck just have to wait our turn to get lucky based on another crappy bill or law.

regards,

saras

 

[sanz72]

I think Nadeem(UN) has been reasonably realistic and accurate in his posting and I completely agree with him on pretty much everything he has said in this thread about IT guys, and make no mistake I am in IT and have been waiting for my GC for close to 6 years now.

 

[indian_gc_ocean]

talent, skill, point based system, $150k salary and finally it is IT guys. If this what it is why don't every one say so at the beginning. I will not be suprised IT actually stands for indian techy.

I have been following various threads and any generalizations about H1Bs, IT guys... will be reported to Rajiv Khanna and I will gather support to do whatever it takes to counter prejudices and false propaganda.

 

[indian_gc_ocean]

When I was a younger kid; about six years old; I fell off a swing and had a small cut on my knee. I cried like a little kid would. I went home and my mom soothed me and said things would be alright.

Is that the comfort you are looking for? Perhaps you should go and cry to your mom and she will tell you that UN is a bad person and everything will be alright.

In all seriousness; everyone needs to get realistic expectations instead of whining/crying of how they are being so harmed and they are so precious. Everything I am reading is that there is problem with undocumented and now the American IT people are going after Bill Gates and H-1b. Maybe the non IT people going for greencard should ask to be separated into different categories since there doesn't seem to be opposition there.

Your opinions on immigration issues for average IT person are noted. You have no idea whether I am effected by the process so far.

 

[ohio_boy]

is that such a big deal?

talent, skill, point based system, $150k salary and finally it is IT guys. If this what it is why don't every one say so at the beginning. I will not be suprised IT actually stands for indian techy.

I have been following various threads and any generalizations about H1Bs, IT guys... will be reported to Rajiv Khanna and I will gather support to do whatever it takes to counter prejudices and false propaganda.

Although I do not agree with the 150K post, I do not know what's the problem, why do you think it "needs to be reported to Rajiv". Why was that post such a big offense to you or what? I do not see any offensive in that post.