Don't expect anything from the current administration.

[nyc8300]

Marlon2006! Had a personal question. Are you a moderator. It seems u already have a GC. Why r u hanging out here?

Exactly. The real problem though is that those 7,000-10,000 people walking through the borders on daily basis don't pay attention to that quota. That's the problem. I think probably we hit one of the worst times to immigrate to the US. People are more and more fed up with immigrants and many times we are paying the price as well. I notice that in the air.

 

[marlon2006]

Ah, I come once in a while. I usually stay away for several weeks. This is such a good community that I like to say hello and opine every now and then. My life improved 100% after getting the GC. Hang in there. If you pass through this life will be much better.

Marlon2006! Had a personal question. Are you a moderator. It seems u already have a GC. Why r u hanging out here?

 

[masala dosa]

Ah, I come once in a while. I usually stay away for several weeks. This is such a good community that I like to say hello and opine every now and then. My life improved 100% after getting the GC. Hang in there. If you pass through this life will be much better.

HOW DID YOUR LIFE CHANGE 100%?

DID YOU GET SOME FREEBIES?

 

[gc_retrogress]

Better jobs, better pay peace of mind are more than freebies.

HOW DID YOUR LIFE CHANGE 100%?

DID YOU GET SOME FREEBIES?

 

[pa_arora]

I think that is part of the reason why there is the 7% country quota. When immigrants are predominantly from one place, or are otherwise fundamentally similar, they can force changes on society that lots of Americans don't want, rather than assimilate. However, the bulk of legal Mexican immigrants come in through family categories not subject to the cap, and Cubans get almost automatic residence once they land here, so the 7% cap hasn't done much to diversify the overall set of immigrants.

Jacko, 7% is fine but "SKILLED-DIVERSITY" doesnt make any damn sense. They should remove the per country quota for EB category; for FB it definitely has quite a bit of meaning.

-p

 

[perm_lc]

Jacko, 7% is fine but "SKILLED-DIVERSITY" doesnt make any damn sense. They should remove the per country quota for EB category; for FB it definitely has quite a bit of meaning.

-p

Well said. The majority of immgrants comes thro family ties. Particularly in the catagory of spouses of US citizens, as there is no numarical limitation and country quota. As there is no limitations, there is no control. The foreign spouses can be 100% from one country. This is major numbers. As there is no 7% country quota in spouses of us citizens, how fare to have a country quota in employment immigration? Further, employment immigration is very less. This is rediculas. Atleast in employment catagory there is a labor certification process by department of labor that determines there is no avialable, willing, able US worker to take the job that was offered to a foreign worker. In this catagory imposing country quota is not justifyable.

However in spouses of US citizens catagory, there is no program by U.S Department of date to certify that there is no available, willing, able US bride or bridegrooms to date and marry a US citizens before they apply for immigration . Why there is a dual standard between family catagory and employment catagory? After all US employer also trying to do same thing.

 

[Jackolantern]

Jacko, 7% is fine but "SKILLED-DIVERSITY" doesnt make any damn sense. They should remove the per country quota for EB category; for FB it definitely has quite a bit of meaning.

Country quotas don't make sense if using a points system in which you take people with the highest points when there is heavy demand. In that case you take the best without regard for country of origin.

But it is different when the applicants are in a large unranked pool like EB3. Letting in only 7% Chinese may lock out some of the best Chinese engineers, but letting in 40% Chinese may lock out the best Brazilian and German engineers. Without some sort of ranking system within EB3 based on qualifications, anything they do will randomly lock out some of the best within the EB3 pool. All applicants are considered equal, so it makes sense from the Americans' standpoint to stop the green cards from being used up predominantly by one or two countries, and to diversify the skilled immigrants so they can contribute with their different techniques and perspectives from around the world.

 

[Jackolantern]

This is one thing that has bothered me. When people discuss the skill; the arts/sciences; technological advances, etc. To me that is people with Phd's. doing extraordinary research; big time actors, athletes, people coming with millions of dollars, etc. There is all accomodation for these people in the current system. The current system just isn't helping the average immigrant wannabe.

How are you defining the innovators and entrepeneurs? People with little work experience who gained most of it here and used the system and resources to hone their talents; or the people who already had these attributes and the success already established in their home country and aren't able to come here?

Both. There are lots of talented and ambitious folks within EB3 who don't have the formal qualifications to be in a higher category, but also lots of average and below-average Joes. Some of the more talented and ambitious ones will decide to leave so they can start their own company or progress their careers, and those who haven't come here yet will increasingly decide to stay away altogether. The average and below-average Joes don't have good options for success without being in the US, so they will still want to start such a process despite knowing about the 10 year wait. In the long run the quality of the EB3 immigrant pool will decrease as a result.

For those who came here with little experience and money and built it up while here, the long wait is also holding them back from being as productive as they can be, as they are effectively prevented from doing things like moving up to management or starting their own companies until they get the GC (although a few still take the risk and go ahead and do either). The big mistake in the design of the employment-based immigration system is that it is for helping specific employers rather than helping the economy at large.

It is not just the nuclear scientists and Google-sized entrepreneurs who have meaningful contributions to make. Somebody who starts a company that hires 8 people or moves up to be director of an IT department is still doing something of worthwhile benefit to the US economy, even though they won't make the news or win a Nobel prize. Many people like that are being held back from making such contributions due to the GC process.

 

[indian_gc_ocean]

Both. There are lots of talented and ambitious folks within EB3 who don't have the formal qualifications to be in a higher category, but also lots of average and below-average Joes. Some of the more talented and ambitious ones will decide to leave so they can start their own company or progress their careers, and those who haven't come here yet will increasingly decide to stay away altogether. The average and below-average Joes don't have good options for success without being in the US, so they will still want to start such a process despite knowing about the 10 year wait. In the long run the quality of the EB3 immigrant pool will decrease as a result.

For those who came here with little experience and money and built it up while here, the long wait is also holding them back from being as productive as they can be, as they are effectively prevented from doing things like moving up to management or starting their own companies until they get the GC (although a few still take the risk and go ahead and do either). The big mistake in the design of the employment-based immigration system is that it is for helping specific employers rather than helping the economy at large.

It is not just the nuclear scientists and Google-sized entrepreneurs who have meaningful contributions to make. Somebody who starts a company that hires 8 people or moves up to be director of an IT department is still doing something of worthwhile benefit to the US economy, even though they won't make the news or win a Nobel prize. Many people like that are being held back from making such contributions due to the GC process.

The quality of EB3 has already been downgraded by clubbing everyone with amnesty.

The argument that someone has gained experience and therefore it is not of priority for immigration is not a valid one. In changing technology trends, it often requires one to update ones experience continuously unless one works within a stale area like outdated immigration laws. There is a very good chance that most of ones job experience is gained in the US. That’s why we have various categories like EB3 and EB2 otherwise everyone will be qualified for EB1. If you consider India EB2 for example, I140s are approved for their outstanding ability and still have 5 years backlog compared to others in EB2. The point is already made at I140 and saying that no visa numbers at 485 is just nothing but nonsense, diversity criteria should have limits. By the same token, just because the current system groups an average EB3 with amnesty, it does not mean that the EB3 is not important to the society, we are just arguing based on broken system to degrade a hardworking techie.

 

[techy2468]

a EB3 can be a Technical Architect in a company or a project manager with around 20 people reporting to him....drawing three times the salary of a Phd working in a university totally dependent on gov grants......

you decide who is more talented??

US immigration system is as old as the dinosaurs....they are based on facts atleast 30 years old.....that a higher education degree means smarter/talented person....

but in today's world most smart people dont waste their time pursuing theoretical academics.......most Bachelor degree holders from IIT/MIT can get a better job than most Phds......

Australian system is based on a quarterly updated list of skills in demand.....and it even inlcluded plumbers and electricians..........and it does not support Phds.....because they do not have a huge requirement for Phds in the industries....but plumbers are in shortage...

 

[nyc8300]

I think the EB-1 category is more to get the best people in their respective fields. It fulfills both diversity and high skill goals. How much do EB-1's contribute vs. EB-2 vs EB-3 is open to contention. In general any skilled immigrant will produce more for himself and for the economy.
From what I see there is so much resource of land and vacant space that even if the whole of Mexico came in, the country will be able to adjust to that.
In the coming years, the problem here may be less working people than anything else.
The worst thing that is happening is that people who can't go to any other country are coming here. Meanwhile, highly skilled immigrants who are enterprising are finding it difficult to stay for long. That is what Bill Gates was referring to.

This is one thing that has bothered me. When people discuss the skill; the arts/sciences; technological advances, etc. To me that is people with Phd's. doing extraordinary research; big time actors, athletes, people coming with millions of dollars, etc. There is all accomodation for these people in the current system. The current system just isn't helping the average immigrant wannabe.

How are you defining the innovators and entrepeneurs? People with little work experience who gained most of it here and used the system and resources to hone their talents; or the people who already had these attributes and the success already established in their home country and aren't able to come here?

 

[envision]

I haven't been around in a while yet things are the same Please stop confusing them with logic un

 

[desi3933]

I think the EB-1 category is more to get the best people in their respective fields. It fulfills both diversity and high skill goals. How much do EB-1's contribute vs. EB-2 vs EB-3 is open to contention. In general any skilled immigrant will produce more for himself and for the economy.
From what I see there is so much resource of land and vacant space that even if the whole of Mexico came in, the country will be able to adjust to that.
In the coming years, the problem here may be less working people than anything else.

The worst thing that is happening is that people who can't go to any other country are coming here.
Well said nyc8300. Read this line loud and see if it applies to you.

Meanwhile, highly skilled immigrants who are enterprising are finding it difficult to stay for long. That is what Bill Gates was referring to.

This is an employer base system. The GC is given because of the job and the employer. Once the job offer is gone, GC process is gone too. Unless, of course, person is filing in eb1 or eb2 NIW, where process is not tied to a particular employer.

How to get EAD without filing I-485 EB1/2/3 -- by nyc8300
http://www.immigrationportal.com/showthread.php?t=219850

 

[marlon2006]

UN hit the nail. In Canada they start all that BS that you do not have Canadian experience, etc. I am not sure how the fact that the economy there is weak contributes to that, it is true.

Now regarding the brightest and best immigrating to the US, it is really hard to make a point. The real truth is that the vast majority of us who came on EB3 have a very powerful quality that distinguished us from many other professionals;it is nor a masters degree nor years of work experience. It is the hunger we have for success. The problem is that, how can you quantify or represent this to USCIS? Someone rightfully posted that the way USCIS measures our abilities are based on rules from 20 years ago. True. Can we come up with better ways to measure one ability than years of experience level of education or number of articles published? I don't see a way to quantify one's ability based on how eager and energetic the individual is. I think no one can measure abilities based on potential. It is based on actual and proven achievement.

This is the one thing that has confounding me in the last year or so on the boards. Everyone talks in very big generalities. that is I want to contribute more, I can do more; greencard is holding me back, etc, etc. My spouse wants to work; she is sitting at home underutilized.

However, if everyone is as good as they say they are; there are many avenues. Go for investors category; if you are very qualified then you should be making lots of money as you would have had career success and would have accumulated a lot of money.

If you are very good in your field then go for eb1 extraordinary ability. How come people don't do this. You need to back up what you say.

I personally have gotten more out of this country then I have gotten back from it (it gave me the opportunity to grow and establish my career; there is probably only 50 people in the country who did what I did; after i left there was some speed bumps but company kept ticking). I was recruited into the country based on my specific knowledge that I had acquired in my earlier stay and continued to do so in Canada (all of my professional experience is based on US Laws and Accounting rules - this includes time I was in canada).

For point base system; ask the professionals in Canada and Australia how easy the ride is. The employers generally won't consider foreign experience or foreign education and will treat you as an inferior and make the entry into the professional workforce extremely difficult.

If US went to point base system; there would be all sorts of arguments against the IT people. From everything I read; it seems car sales people are the most in demand profession; it is not IT. I think accounting jobs are just on par with demand for IT. However, i don't see accounting firms falling all over themselves trying to get more people here or complaining that enough people aren't in accounting and that it is a big problem.

People really need to get a reality check. It is an employer base system; if they took the employer out of it; there would be very few people getting greencard that are currently getting it. Be careful of what you wish for.

 

[nyc8300]

UN,
Maybe a lot of legal immigrants are good but have not been able to qualify for EB-1 or investor category. That however does not prove or dissaprove anything.
It is hard to say what categories i.e. EB1, 2 or 3 is contributing the most to the country. In terms of proven studies there are studies that show that bachelor+ level educated students' productivity and earnings are significantly more than for people who are not educated at that level.
Can the US exist without H-1b's. Why not! But, I guess Bill Gate's speech was the most comprehensive conclusion on the need for specialized skilled people. What you are talking about is facts on needs of business i.e. need for car salesmen. What Bill Gates said was based on his vision about US competiveness and need for skilled workers.
We need to take Bill Gates' comments on its face value and respect that view.

This is the one thing that has confounding me in the last year or so on the boards. Everyone talks in very big generalities. that is I want to contribute more, I can do more; greencard is holding me back, etc, etc. My spouse wants to work; she is sitting at home underutilized.

However, if everyone is as good as they say they are; there are many avenues. Go for investors category; if you are very qualified then you should be making lots of money as you would have had career success and would have accumulated a lot of money.

If you are very good in your field then go for eb1 extraordinary ability. How come people don't do this. You need to back up what you say.

I personally have gotten more out of this country then I have gotten back from it (it gave me the opportunity to grow and establish my career; there is probably only 50 people in the country who did what I did; after i left there was some speed bumps but company kept ticking). I was recruited into the country based on my specific knowledge that I had acquired in my earlier stay and continued to do so in Canada (all of my professional experience is based on US Laws and Accounting rules - this includes time I was in canada).

For point base system; ask the professionals in Canada and Australia how easy the ride is. The employers generally won't consider foreign experience or foreign education and will treat you as an inferior and make the entry into the professional workforce extremely difficult.

If US went to point base system; there would be all sorts of arguments against the IT people. From everything I read; it seems car sales people are the most in demand profession; it is not IT. I think accounting jobs are just on par with demand for IT. However, i don't see accounting firms falling all over themselves trying to get more people here or complaining that enough people aren't in accounting and that it is a big problem.

People really need to get a reality check. It is an employer base system; if they took the employer out of it; there would be very few people getting greencard that are currently getting it. Be careful of what you wish for.

 

[techy2468]

i dont count Phd as a acheivement....

marlon the answer is: skills in demand list.....instead of people trying to lobby to get the physios/nurses more visa.....it can be easily added to the list....

it does not matter how good you are....what matter is how much is there a need in USA for your skills...

if there is a need for scientists with Phd...so be it...but if there is need for IT people, nurses etc....how come scientists get the first preference...

but in grand scheme of things all these does not matter........USA is getting all the people it need and more very easily..........hence they do not care for immigrants........hence they will not pay attention to making their system efficient......and we do not have a similar option elsewhere......so we have to pay the price for the good things we want...

 

[marlon2006]

Techy, but then there is that argument that there are students with graduate degrees in the US who could qualify. They are claiming they have the same level of skill of H1B (or IT foreigners) and they are available, if employers pay a better salary to attract them. If you make employees work 70-80h/week, like certain companies expect very often, the difference is that American graduates show a finger to the employer and walk out. I do not want to diminish our value but I am trying to say is that just using that rationale that a typical new H1B is qualified (BS+2 year) so we become more vulnerable because one can justify that there Americans in the market with similar qualification. I think recent studies show that there are 70,000 African American students graduated in computer science and out of work.

Regarding what Bill Gates said, I am sorry to say, but that was not smart from him. By saying that he would like to see unlimited number of H1B's and the same time he wonders why Americans do not enroll in computer science and engineering in the US are the most pathetic rationale ever presented. I am sorry, but that is the truth and that naturally made us very happy, but pissed off IEEE and Americans of course.



QUOTE=techy2468;1629603]i dont count Phd as a acheivement....

marlon the answer is: skills in demand list.....instead of people trying to lobby to get the physios/nurses more visa.....it can be easily added to the list....

it does not matter how good you are....what matter is how much is there a need in USA for your skills...

if there is a need for scientists with Phd...so be it...but if there is need for IT people, nurses etc....how come scientists get the first preference...

but in grand scheme of things all these does not matter........USA is getting all the people it need and more very easily..........hence they do not care for immigrants........hence they will not pay attention to making their system efficient......and we do not have a similar option elsewhere......so we have to pay the price for the good things we want...[/QUOTE]

 

[gcwhenever]

actually, the only thing most of us on this forum care about is increased visa numbers, and why? Not because we really care about increased immigration to the US.
But because of the backlog.

If things were like they were 15-20 years ago, where total time to get a new green card was 1-2 years, none of us would really be pushing for increased H-1bs, or increased visa numbers.
the only reason the shortage of visa numbers exists is not because of increased immigration: someone posted all the annual immigration numbers and in fact the number of immigrants is less in the last 6 years than before, and at an almost constant rate for the last 15 years, excluding the boom during mid 90s.
The reason for shortage of visa numbers is the inefficiencies of USCIS and DOL. (in fact DOL has greatly contributed to this)

If all the govt did was to eliminate the backlogs, this controversy would not even exist for most companies or employees, except for new grads who might not get an H-1b visa to start working. Because even from a corporation's point of view, once an H-1b worker was able to get his green card in 1 year, he would no longer be on H-1, and the company could still stay within the H-1 quota and be able to hire new H-1s.

If some senator introduced a bill that required only that DOL and USCIS drastically cut down processing times, then there would be no need for all this controversy, and everyone would be happy - immigrants, companies, and US citizens.
And also the senators and congressmen, since there would be no need for any changes to immigration policy, so they would not lose any votes.

Just remove the inefficiencies, and thats all we ask for

 

[michael_holding]

come on man tell me you must be joking right??? only people who earn $150k are skilled?. yeah drug dealers , strippers, hookers make more than $150k...maybe they are skilled in your book.

 

[nyc8300]

I guess everybody has a different version of who is a useful immigrant vs. one who is not.
I think we need to stick to Bill Gates' comments and respect his views on the importance of skilled immigrants in EB-1,2 and 3 categories.
I am not saying this since it favors us but because there is no study to prove or dissaprove the 'usefulness' of the various skilled immigrants in EB categories; hence let's take the word of a proven visionary.

Not everybody in extraordinary ability has ph.d. Careful your wife may get upset at you. Looks like you are equating her skill/contribution to eb1 category

My brother is Ph.d. Professer at a name school (Ph.d at University of Chicago; Post Doctorate at Harvard Medical School). He has been in USA for 14 years and hasn't even started the greencard process yet. He simply doesn't care and pursues life decisions without regard to greencard. The people who have the high skills are least bothered with greencard because nothing changes for them (they already make a lot of money and are pretty much set in what they do).

You will lose all sorts of arguments and look pretty stupid when you are trying to justify/argue that people need greencard to make all types of contributions that they currently can't make. In reality; people who are making less then $150,000 aren't "skilled" in business definition. Maybe in immigration sense but not business sense.