Class C misdemeanor

Important Thread

I think this is an "Important" thread.

"Though I do not want to clutter the top of the page, but this issue is in a way so important that I want the moderator to move this up there.

This will be a constant reminder that we should behave responsibly not only during the I485 satge but also latter on in Life.

I do not want the advice posted in this thread to be lost in archives.

Any comments ??
 
Re: Important Thread

Originally posted by eb2_I485_RD0901
I think this is an "Important" thread.I do not want the advice posted in this thread to be lost in archives.Any comments ??
I fully agree with you, friend. I second the notion.
 
poongunranar,GCBoard, 140_takes_4ever,Antsy02098

And other. Thanks again for all your Advice.

poongunranar so you are from Ooty ?? Yes I would like to get to know you more.

Thanks Again, hopefully we all will get approved soon.
 
ooty

Ooty,

I am not from Ooty though. However, I used to go there almost every month. Yes, you got it right, where I am from -- your neighboring district.
 
Ooty:
I hope things work out with you. I guess, if not all, most of us have gone through dis-agreement phase after getting married.

poongunranar:

You are a good man!!! I hope your good advice will help Ooty come out of this mess.
 
Ooty,

Just got to read your thread and all the posts today. I understand what you must be going through, but guess what, it will all be fine(as it has already started on those lines) - for looks like you are a good person.
I can totally understand that you did what you did, in that moment of heat and I have personally myself been there once in a while, although not this far, so I can understand how it feels to be you. I am lucky my wife's a little more patient.
But here's my simple advise to you and people like us - when any arguement starts to go beyond control( you can sense it when it starts to) - just walk away from it. Just grit your teeth and do that and take some time out and I think time can heal quite a bit of things, atleast most of it . Thats my prescription.

Like many here said, take one day at a time and enjoy all the little things and your children and I am sure your wife will come around and realize that she also behaved stupid and childish at times.

I remember one of my friends telling me - everyday when you leave home for work, make sure you dont forget to let your wife and children and whoever know that you love them even if you had a fight with them last night, and thought you can come back from work and tell them you were sorry in the evening - simply becos you never know how many of them did in a similar way and
ended up on the 90th floor of the WTC that dark day.

Btw, I am from Coimbatore and I have spent several summers in Sholurmattam, Kil Kotagiri and Aravangadu.


And poongunranar,
You are a good person man! You literally gave therapy to Ooty and many others here with your valuable legal, logical and practical points.
 
Thanks MrCoolz

I appreciate your words of advice and comfort. Things are beginning to work out. The wife and the kids are back and My wife and I are each making an effort to keep disputes to the minimum and create a happy atmosphere for our children.

I have already been letting my family know that I love them every morning before leaving for work and infact have always prayed with them morning and before sleeping at night. But I guess over the years this becomes sort of mechanical and taken for granted. That's what life in this country does, infact even more with the GC process...I was concentrating more on keeping my job during the economic fallout and I guess I thought, that in itself meant that I was thus ensuring my family's ability to maintain the same livestyle and well being and so I was fulfilling my responsibilities as the sole bread winner and my wife should appreciate that when I went thru the motions of spending family time as a formality.

Now I know that I am expected to spend more time with the family and in vacations etc and share in every family and household chore (which I frankly admit is difficult getting used to for many men from south asia, there are exceptions so I don't want anyone pouncing on me :) ) and just supplying the monetary needs isn't suffucient.

I hadn't taken a vacation in six years except for the occasional weekend trips. So this christmas I took the family to South Padre Island for a few days and found it refreshingly relaxing and discovered - Yeah! I need a break too. All work and no play too is not good!

I also know to walk a away from an argument as you have already suggested. But do resent the fact that many women hear use the 911 number as a trumph card. When I was arrested and charged I met a guy who was arrested for Family verbal violence. And he says he and his wife we're shouting during an argument at home no cussing nothing and police picked him up. This means a guy isn't even allowed to get angry, if he does, the wife calls 911.

I firmly believe that the law should interfere when there is extreme abuse (physical and verbal such as threats to life etc) and a pattern has been established. But to interfere when a couple has an agrument once in a blue moon just because 911 is dialed is absurd, when there are no verbal threats issued and no immediate physical danger. Well I guess it's just my view and many here would disagree.

As for the charge against me, my attorney asked me to take it to trial. One detail that I left out was during our argument, I was carrying our 11 month old son and actually when my wife turned her arm struck my face and that's when I lost it and slapped her thinking she tried to hit me. She says she thought I was rasing my hand and was defending herself, however the fact is that I didn't strike first and I did not tell this to the police in all the confusion. The attorney says that she is very sure the case will get dismissed in light of this when speaking to the prosecutor before trial. Anyway since everything at home is peaceful now, my wife will also indicate that she does not want this case to be prosecuted.
 
Originally posted by MrCoolz
Btw, I am from Coimbatore and I have spent several summers in Sholurmattam, Kil Kotagiri and Aravangadu.
How about Kolakombai, Selas, Manjur, Ketti, Bettati, Canadian Power House, etc.?:D :D :D

Same here dude. Thanks for the accolades.

Ooty: All the best, dude. And keep us all posted about the case. Am happy that many are finding this thread to be useful. And I can see a distinct shift in guys' opinions about how love is more important than vulgar activism, where instead of the husband and wife sorting out the problems, publicity-seeking morons step in to scuttle the reconciliation process and thereby derailing the marriage itself.
 
Thanks dear friend poongunranar

I have replied to MrCoolz about the status of the case. It is being taken to trial and the attorney is confident of getting it dismissed or not prosecuted. Also thank you for the season greetings, I replied but received an indication that your email notification or personal messaging or something was full. Thanks again!
 
Re: Important Thread

Originally posted by eb2_I485_RD0901
I think this is an "Important" thread.

"Though I do not want to clutter the top of the page, but this issue is in a way so important that I want the moderator to move this up there.

This will be a constant reminder that we should behave responsibly not only during the I485 satge but also latter on in Life.

I do not want the advice posted in this thread to be lost in archives.

Any comments ??

All,
Please let us learn for this. Patience & Peace.
This thread needs to be pushed up once a month !
 
....on a lighter note

Ooty,

I see there is a typo error in you signature, which says I145 instead of 485 - probably USCIS is waiting for you to change that to approve your petition:)

Take care!
 
Re: Thanks dear friend poongunranar

Originally posted by Ooty
Also thank you for the season greetings, I replied but received an indication that your email notification or personal messaging or something was full. Thanks again!
My Private Messages inbox is full. However, you can contact me through my email via this portal itself. It is tied to my email address: poongunranar@yahoo.com

Even if I didn't get an actual message from you, I appreciate the feeling of camaraderie, just as that existed between the Poet Pisiranthaiyaar and the Chola King, Koperunj Chozhan :D :D
 
VERY IMPORTANT UPDATE - Flores Vs. Ashcroft

Originally posted by Ooty
Does a conviction for a Class C Misdemeanor for Assault - Family affect 485 ?

Friend Ooty, it is me again, with an interesting update. In the recent Flores Vs. Ashcroft that was disposed on November 26, 2003 by a division bench comprising Mr. Justice Easterbrook, Ms. Justice Diane P.Wood, and Mr. Justice Evans, the plaintiff's removal order by Board of Immigration Appeals was set aside, after some very interesting arguments by Mr. Justice Easterbrook to which Mr. Justice Evans concurred.

Flores, the plaintiff had committed greater offenses in my opinion, by violating a restraint order and hitting his spouse thereby causing an injury. This was a Class A Misdemeanor as per the statutes of Indiana State, to which the plaintiff belonged to. Flores observed that Indiana does not require much of either touching or injury as any contact counts as a "touch" and this includes indirect as well as direct contact, so a snowball, spitball, or paper airplane qualifies if it hits the target. So, if the paper airplane inflicts a paper cut, the snowball causes a yelp of pain, or a squeeze of the arm causes a bruise, the aggressor has committed a class A misdemeanor (provided the act was rude, angry, or insolent). "It is hard to describe any of this as violence," observed the Judge :) He also proceeded, "..now Flores did not tickle his wife with a feather during a domestic quarrel, causing her to stumble and bruise her arm. That would not have led to a prosecution, let alone to a year's imprisonment. The police report shows that Flores attacked and beat his wife even though prior violence had led to an order barring from having any contact with her."

The Bench clearly and cleverly argued about the first prong of Section 16 of INA, more at theoretical level -- "an offense that has an element the use, attempted use, or threatened use of physical force against the person or property of another." So, rather than "practically what Mr. Flores did," the bench thought it was prudent to see the "element" nature of the offense. In other words, they had to analyze the "charge-offense" more than the "real-offense" approach to see if Mr. Flores should be removed.

I found this to be very interesting, "Does it follow that every battery comes within 16(a)? No, it does not. Every battery involves 'force' in the sense of physics or engineering, where 'force' means the acceleration of mass. A newton, the amount of force needed to accelerate a kilogram by one m/sec.) Perhaps one could read the word 'force' in 16(a) to mean one dyne or more, but that would make hash of the effort to distinguish ordinary crimes from violent ones. How is it possible to commit any offense without applying a dyne of force?......To avoid collapsing the distinction between violent and non-violent offenses,we must treat the word 'force' as having a meaning in the legal community that differs from its meaning in the Physics community. The way to do this is to insist that the force be violent in nature-the sort that is intended to cause bodily injury, or at a minimum likely to do so. We have alrady drawn just that line."

To make the long story short, the Bench cancelled the removal order, thereby vacating the removal and remanding it back to the Board of Immigration Appeals.

This case, is similar to the other guy in Arizona, who typically argued his case by challenging the aptness of being removed on a state offense that was clearly short of the 16(a) statute of the Federal definition of Crime of Violence.

Please note that this kind of argument is beneficial to only those in whose state the charge is classified as misdemeanor. If it is classified as felony (which is why I used to always make this point clear and ask if it is classified as "felony" or not), you are going to have a tough time, because it is covered under 16(b), pretty clearly, that any clever argument of DYNES, NEWTONS and whole-nine-yards, would make it very difficult to make it tenable.

Bottom-line: Flores Vs. Ashcroft case would show the legal ramifications to a few in this forum. Please do not get caught in this mess as it is not only against the laws of this land, but against natural law as well. Shun DV. Period. And for people like Ooty, who has reconciled with his wife, just stay relaxed and happy :), as this judgment is another feather in your cap, because yours is also a Misdemeanor and not a felony, to which any attempts to invoke 16(a) can be countered with jurisprudence, primarily Flores Vs. Ashcroft. Personally, this Judgment was one of the best noetic judgments that I have read in the recent past.
 
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Thanks poongunranar

For your valuable advice and the case you referred to. It is indeed very encouraging. My pre-trial appearance is on the 24th of this month and I will let you know how it goes. Our family life is very good and back to normal and I'm sure the outcome of the case will be favorable.

Thanks again for taking the time and effort in researching and studying all the ramifications my case could have and keeping me informed of a positive outcome as per the case you just mentioned.


Ooty
 
Ooty

All the best, my dear friend. Try to get a dismissal and do not plead guilty to the charges, even if that should help in reducing the sentence, it would still suck big time because of the draconian immigration statutes . Your wife is on your side and that should help your case a lot.

Now, please do let us all know how it goes. Please do have a good criminal/immigration attorney at your side, as aliens are distinctly different than citizens, as far as immigration laws are concerned. Keep the following things in mind:

  1. Misdemeanor need not be "Aggravated Felony (AF)" or "Crime Involving Moral Turpitude (CIMT)" (provided the sentence is not 365 days or more) only so long as the victim is NOT a spouse. Once it is a spouse, then automatically you are governed by the draconian INA §237(a)(E)(2) statute (http://uscis.gov/lpBin/lpext.dll/in...s&fn=document-frame.htm#publaw-sec-46--32-350).
  2. Admission to essential and basic facts of the case is sufficient to attract INS's attention, irrespective of the sentence. For DV, even a probation would land into trouble.
  3. Your skilled attorney,should be able to draft a euphemistic confession, which would not trigger the "conviction" language.
  4. At times the incriminating statement, need not be in the Court file, I am told. Sorry, I am not familiar with this stuff, but discuss with your attorney about the same. Just as Alcoholics Anonymous, the basic step in all of this is to admission of guilt. Only then, they will be willing to negotiate. In your case, you have to trudge between the Devil and the deep-blue sea.
    [/list=1]
    In all probability, your case will be transferred to the local-office for interview. So, let that be the lodestar in all your court case. Be at ease. Discuss with your attorney. Take your kids to the court, if possible. Your camaraderie with your wife should help a lot, too. And, as I had posted in the previous post, we have a jurisprudent case in Flores Vs. Ashcroft which should give tremendous amount of courage to you. Also remember that Arizona guy :). You should be fine!

    Good luck. We will be eager to hear how it goes. God bless.
 
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Update on This

First of all let me say that my wife and I got approved yesterday as per on-line status. So what I write hereafter is irrelevant to me concerning the Class C arrest. However I just wanted to let you all know what the status of that is.

02/24 was pre-trial. Since my attorney had another trial she asked a fellow attorney to attend. However there was some mis-communication betwen them and that attorney entered a plea for deferred adjudication with 30 day probation after which the case will be dismissed, however the record won't be expunged. I was really pissed off hearing this since I did not want to enter a plea but go to trial. My attorney said she was sorry and offered to send a petition to withdraw the plea, However I asked her to wait until I spoke to a few immigration attorneys to get thier views.

Well predictably thier views varied from alarmist to nothing to worry about. I told them it's a class C and that I got deferred adjudication with 30 days probation after which the case will be dismissed. One attorney told me that even if class C, it's viewed as aggravated assualt under immigration law since it is domestic and I was deportable, another said that I will be called for interview since it will show up in the FBI name check, still another said that I will be interviewed but not approved until I provide the court documents that it's decided either way but I could not be denied only on the basis of the Class C case, still another said that as long as I didn't have a probation over six months, I will be approved since it's only Class C offence, yet another said that I would be approved but if I get a repeat offence especially for Class C Domestic simple assualt which was the case here after I get my green card then that would be viewed as serious if the USCIS finds out.

Well, since I got approved, I can infer that Class C misdemeanors don't show up in name check but probably would in FBI fingerprint which I already gave May'03 and cleared. Also I really think that an application cannot be outright denied because of this (Class C offense) but can be called for interview and as long as the punishment is not imprisonment or probation of over six months a good attorney can argue for approval. Also even after green card as the last attorney said it wouldn't be good if you get a repeat of the same offense, This is only where the arrest is on record, if the case is dismissed in trial it doesn't go on record and that would be a first offense for your record and I guess would be dealt with more easily if USCIS finds out.

I am going to stick with the deferred adjudication and get it dismissed in 30 days. I don't have the stamina to go to trial though I am fairly certain I could win because not only are my spouse and I enjoying a good family life but the facts of the case are in my favor since I didn't strike first. However I will be careful in the future knowing that it is in my record as arrested and case dismissed.

I hope this helps all those who though I wish it weren't so, may fall in the same predicament I was.

Thanks!!
 
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Congratulations Ooty (and a caution, of course)

Ooty,

Congratulations, dear friend. The words of the Psalmist "those who sow in tears, will reap in joy," has become true in your case!!!!

Please do seek legal opinion, once again, because a LPR (Legal Permanent Resident) is not protected from retroactive judicial scrutiny. Now, length of sentence, deferred probation, etc., do have a lot of meaning for citizens; not so for aliens. Admission to guilt is all that is needed. So, please do see, if your Attorney can withdraw her plea and rather can work with the DA for a dismissal. You don't want any arrest records to defang you from your citizenship goals as well. In a nutshell, do not be complacent and get it totally out of your records. And, enjoy the great news of GC approval!!!!

The good Lord has blessed you on the very first day of Lent (AD -- 02/25/2004). And the words of Kamba Ramayanam immediately comes to memory: ஆகுவது ஆகும் காலத்து ஆகும்.

Am very happy for you!!!!!
 
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