Class C misdemeanor

Ooty

Sorry to hear about your wife taking away your kids and your documents. That is very unfortunate. Please try some mediation through some honest friends who have a good rapport with your wife as well.

To go on record, I have been redacting my views on this thread not assuming any guilt either on your part or your wife's part. Many socioligists of "this great country" do say that both are equally participative in instances involving DV. So, as I had mentioned elsewhere, I am not here to judge anybody.

That much said, let me say this as well:- Yes, unless you have a restraint order, your wife can take practically everything she wants, as far as finances are concerned. However, she has no legal right to snitch your legal documents like your own passport, license, etc. I cannot sense if this issue is a serious one or one dirty reaction from your wife's side. However, if she really wants to muck up everything by putting you through dire straits, you cannot be syrupy about your relationship and put yourself behind bars. It is high time you hire an attorney and try to file a divorce suit. Still, let divorce be the very last step and not the first, especially due to the longevity of your marriage.

And a few may take potshots at me for this suggestion. Please allow me to explain why I suggest filing a suit of divorce, if and only if your wife doesn't turn back your documents and discuss with you a future course of action. When you file a suit of divorce, your wife will be forced to respond back and anyway the court will ask you folks to engage in mediation and negotiations. That way, you can make your wife respond to you and can utilize that opportunity to impress upon the need to stay together. Anytime, your rapprochement works, you can file a withdrawal petition to withdraw your suit of divorce.

Until then, you are at the mercy of your wife, who can really jeopardize your very existence in this country. You ought to have your passport with you at all times. Else, you can be jailed.

Please do talk to your mutual friends/religious ministers or even hire a marriage counsellor if you know where she is and better settle for a rapprochement man.

Yeah, I am a lover of Nilgiris and used to aestivate there for peace of mind, when I was in India.
 
Re: Thanks for the advice - New development

Originally posted by Ooty
I need to file a civil suit and when and if she is found then the court will handle custody. I asked the cop that means I could have taken the kids and disappeared for years and that's OK because I'm the parent ? And the cops says yes...what Croc!!
Click to expand...

Ooty: I can give you a similar instance of a case which precisely had a situation as yours. The guy in this case, Mr. Sushil Sharma had a dispute with his wife Mrs. Sarita Sharma and filed a suit of divorce at a US Superior Court in 1995. As it was a contested divorce (God save the couples undergoing this torture of 21st century), the wife fearing an adverse judgement, took her two kids and eloped to India in 1997. As the divorce was under progress the US Superior Court had clearly passed interim orders with respect to visitation rights which allowed the custody of the children to Mrs. Sharma and granted visitation to Mr. Sharma.

Now, after Mrs. Sharma violated those interim orders and went back to India with her kids, Mr. Sharma moved the US Superior Court which issued an arrest warrant for contempt-of-court violation against Mrs. Sharma. Mr. Sharma also filed a habeas corpus (this is a petition where you can file in a court of law, esp. in democratic countries, to produce a person physically from illegal or possibly illegal confinement by individuals or state-machinery) against Mrs. Sharma in the Delhi High Court. The DHC ruled the case in favor of Mr. Sharma, asking the wife to basically obey the US Superior Court orders and promptly turn back the kids to Mr. Sharma.

But, poor guy's joy was short-lived, when she approached the Supreme Court of India, which basically reversed the Delhi High Court's ruling, thereby directly confronting the US Superior Court's jurisdiction on the issue.

I am not sure, what happened thereafter, but the guy could do only that. As you see, under the name of "equal-rights" Dads are lynched and martyred at the altar of political-correctness. Shame on those people who have scant regard to Dads who are as much righteous in their claims to their offsprings as the Moms are. Are Dads only ATM machines to feed the Moms who "abduct" the kids away from their Dads?

Let me stick to the point: I think the Courts in India are not an exception to judicial activism and excesses as well. Anytime, a US Court and an Indian Court are pitched against each other, several United Nations Protocols and Indo-US bilateral protocols are dangerously violated. Therefore, the courts in India are trying to be "sensitive" to US Courts' decisions, even though as sovereign nations a US Court can disregard an Indian Court's order ("hearsay") and vice-versa.

This case's ruling was granted by the Supreme Court of India in 2000, when the off-shoring and other International business were not firmly established as it is now. Due to the "international" presence, the code-of-conduct to respect foreign court rulings is evolving in India on an ad hoc basis, citing the excuse of jurisprudence. As per the Indian Civil Code, there is no explicit guidance as to when a foreign court's ruling may be honored by an Indian Court of Law. However, Indian courts have respected foreign court rulings, particularly if they had "jurisdiction" over the parties concerned.

That is one of the reason I would advise you to subject your wife to a US Court's jurisdiction, even while you can negotiate a good rapprochement for common good. Else, if she leaves with your kids, you can still get an ex-parte decree in the absence of your wife from a US Superior Court, forcing your wife to return your kids. However, the Indian Courts would disregard that, primarily because she did not subject herself to the US Court's "jurisidiction."

Hope this helps. Not many Indian Lawyers are familiar with Family-Law under Internatinal Foreign Law ambit, just as a Criminal Defense Attorney in this country doesn't know a bit about Immigration Law. Therefore, tread with caution on this sticky-wicket.
 
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mr.p

what do u do for a living? your legal knowledge is very profound.

I agree with your thoughts though. you cannot wait expecting things will work out on its own. expect better and prepare for the worse. YOu should be moving on this issue fast if you want to see your kids back:mad: :confused:
 
tombaan

Just the normal chores of IT consulting man. Increased instances of abuse of civil and criminal justice systems by certain individuals who can make ad hominem accusations against an individual for the sake of proving their "power" to wreak havoc on that individual is already causing problems for numerous folks. That is what forced me to get acclimated into this country's legal systems. Until 6 months ago, I didn't know what a Civil or Criminal Court of Law in the US means!!!! As I had mentioned elsewhere, I am merely trying to help somebody who is undergoing emotional and psychological stress.

For fear of admonition by the moderator of this forum, I don't get into philosophy so often, but try to stop with legal advise. That doesn't mean I am for legal action. However, I humbly submit the legal facts to the person who is already under extreme stress to think about legal issues. At least when somebody puts it plainly, he/she can act accordingly. That's all dude.

If only one of the two opponents can adopt an attitude of "letting it go," how nice it would be. I, personally, consider it to be very distressing to go to a Courthouse for matters concerning two bed-fellows.:(
 
And I had started to think poongunranar makes a living as a Marriage Counselor.

Anyways, Ooty, I wish the best to you and your family.
I hope things get resolved for the best for your kids, you & your spouse.
This is all I can say in this thread.
 
Ooty

Forgot to tell you this. Sorry for not posting for the past two days, as I was travelling out-of-state.

Now, if you are really willing to live with your wife and kids, and if you SURELY know that your wife has gone back to India, try doing this:

  1. If you can travel to India, please do so and file a "Restitution of Conjugal Rights" against your wife in a Family Court which may have jurisdiction on both of you in India. If you would have stayed in India after marriage, or the court under whose physical jurisdiction you got married will be the appropriate court to approach. Restitution of Conjugal Rights cannot be applied in a US Court of Law as I understand they don't have that provision any longer. However, Indian courts certainly do. If you cannot go to India and you have a legal power-of-attorney executed on somebody, ask that person to approach the Family Court. They can send you the Vakalat papers and you can sign it and the case can be filed in India. Now, your wife can still stay out of you after the Restitution of Conjugal Rights petition is filed. In that case, it automatically becomes a ground for divorce in Indian Court of Law (desertion is the statutory ground).
  2. Parallely, approach the US Superior Court of your County and file a Divorce Petiton with Custody and Visitation Rights.
  3. Since your kids are US Citizens, they are naturally protected by the Hague Children Convention, to which US is a signatory, but the largest Democratic Country, India, is not a signatory. However, the US Government needs to be apprised of such PARENTAL ABUDCTION OF CHILDREN, so that they can act, if only they will act.
  4. If possible, get an arrest warrant against your wife for abducting your children. Your children are NOT your or your wife's property ( children are not INANIMATE but ANIMATE under the eyes of law). So, what the cops told you is kind of partly right and partly not. Your wife can take whatever is in your account (money), but not kids/children. You or your wife cannot abduct children without the proper rulings of a Court of Jurisdiction.
    [/list=1]

    I am merely outlining various options, which you can positively verify with your own attorneys. I am confident on what I state. However, I am truly a human-being like you with feelings of love and affection dominating any of my intellect. In fact, I truly want both of you to reconcile and look to the future. Dude, please try that route and only when that fails, approach law as a last resort. You don't want to approach legal measures, if you can do it with some wire-pulling.

    That much said:- Don't lose your rights over your children.

    moderator:

    I am digressing onto personal family issues, albeit, only immigration issues are to be discussed here. Hope, you will not chastize me for doing this, as the seriousness of the case warranted it.
 
Thanks for all your support

and admonishment too :) It is very easy condeming an action unless you are in the exact same situation. To those that wrote that I should not have slapped my wife, I say yes that's right I shouldn't have done it. I have never considered myself as a wife abuser. I do not have a pattern of habitually slapping during an argument. I am not justifying anything but when tempers run high and things are said you need to be in that circumstance to actually feel it and granted many people will react differently, but I just lossed it and it was wrong. But let me say that just because a slap is considered wrong it doesn't mean all fault for the situation lies with me. Many people on this forum say that they will never raise their hand against their wives (I thought that too !!), probably your wives don't push you to the brink. I am not a mad man who comes home and beats his wife for no reason. I have worked hard in this country to provide a comfortable life for my wife and children, infact I look old and have got premature grey hairs in the process. I have tried my best to be a good husband and family man. BUT everyone has a limit to tolerance. I was looking for advice to respond to the situation that happened not a dissection of what I shouldn't have done or the type of person I am. For that I am grateful to many of you for your positive advice on how to handle the situation at hand mainly pongunrar and other. I was not looking for support. I feel sorry about what happened and let's leave it at that.

Now for the good news...I found my wife and kids were in Tulsa OK with a family friend. What pissed my off was the family friend didn't even let me know, His american wife tells me after I called "don't worry the kids are safe" like I am a danger to them. I talked to the kids over the phone everyday for the past few days and they missed me so much, the little guy got sick and didn't eat well. I also talked to me wife and told her that I will sign a letter that in any future agruments I will not hit her provided she takes anger management counseling. It may surprise all that she IS THE SHORT TEMPERED person and can really tick you off when she angry and says things she doesn't even think the consequences of. I said we have come to this country for a better life and now that we have kids they need both Mother and Father at home, I don't believe in divorce and even if I hated you for my kids sake, I would stay to provide a wholesome home (which I really do mean!!!)

Sunday December 15th I went and picked them up. We are working things out and taking things one day at a time. She will not press charges but the attorney tells me that the state will still pick up the charges and she need to sign a affidavit will the attorney will provide to the prosecuter and judge. Pogunrar does this mean the case will be dismissed ? Let me know please.

Thanks again from the bottom of my heart to all who responded and gave constructive advice for being there when I need you.

Ooty
 
I can empathize and feel for your situation, Ooty....

Ooty, my friend:

I can fully appreciate the spirit behind your writing. I will never justify anybody beating their wife. On the same token, I am with you 100% -- unconditionally. And anybody can speak about black-and-white, but situations like these will reveal how weak one can be!! You could never believe that you would slap anybody, but at the heat of the moment, you lost control. It is an international shame that people still do not understand what domestic-violence is all about. In fact, many disinterested analytical studies by sociologists and psychologists suggest that in about 60-65% of the cases, it is the females who directly get involved with DV, even though, males are immediately punished, on a preponderance of evidence, basis. In fact, the Courts and Police can save some tax-payers money, by putting all men in jail, without any investigations and trials, because, in any case, that is what they are going to do. A female's testimony is all that is needed for a Civil/Criminal/Immigration court in this country to rule in favor of the same. I am quoting this from the statutes of the courts of this country and is not a figment of my imagination. Courts and Police should see the issue as issue -- where is the gender bias in here? Again, I don't want to harp more on this outrageous hatred towards males, because, I do acknowledge that overwhelming majority of females are seriously abused by males and I do accept that. But, what blows me up is the casual attitude that all males are rowdies, abusers, and wife-beaters! Very unfortunate, it is. DV can create situations that can happen to anybody and the harsh truth is, it happens. So, let us not harp on it. My view on this forum is pretty clear: I am not here to judge others, rather to offer opinion on subjects, which I may know. I am as much an erroneous subject as any other. To think of otherwise is foolhardy. So, once again, you will see me offering full support to you and others in this forum.

Coming to your question: Your case is NOT civil, but criminal. In a civil case the prosecution is between you and your wife. There, your wife can withdraw the allegations and settle things amicably. In a criminal case, the state sees you as a threat to the society and therefore prosecutes you, even if the victim comes to your defense. Therefore, the case will be and can be prosecuted against you by the DA. Usually, they may see your wife falling in line with you and may ask you to plead guilty. That is the turf, that you should be careful about. See, if you and your wife can negotiate with the DA. Tell him about the pros and cons of pleading guilty, if he is a nice guy in your case. If he is a rude, muck-a-muck type, then deal with him very carefully and in any case you need to say "I am pleading NOT GUILTY," and basically take it to trial. One of our beloved friends at this forum, who prefers to communicate with me privately, literally cried that he had to plead guilty on a criminal conviction, after the DA threatened him to deluge with one case or the other, should the DA lose the case!!! That, apart from the mental agony of prosecution, together with financial burden, forced the person to plead guilty. It is tragic and pitiable that a human-being is forced to eat a humble-pie, just because the system demands that as a speedier settlement to make some people feel good. And as a member of Amnesty International, I only know, how many convicts in this country are in the Death-Row on very poorly and hastily conducted trials. Why I am saying this is to reiterate that the legal system is fair in this country, but the very haste to adjudicate will make the legality tenuous. This is my humble, noetic observance of the legal system here. Most of the time, you either get less or forced to take more, not because that is in accordance with law, but that is what you can afford to take or lose. Where is equity of justice here? This is why, folks, I repeat that everybody reading this thread -- please spread this good message to all the couples who may have friction -- NEVER MAKE FAMILY ISSUES AS LAW-AND-ORDER ISSUES, because both of you are bound to lose. Rather, better call friends/superiors and get it resolved amicably as a family issue. Don't allow a trigger-happy tendency to call 911, ultimately ruin your love-lives. So, even if DA should threaten or intimidate you, never lose your confidence man! Fight with the same Todas spirit of Ooty!! :D Also, your wife cannot become a hostile witness as it will be construed as perjury and therefore she has to do a tight-rope walk. If she had called 911 and all that crap, that may be complex. You and your wife know precisely what unfolded on that day. So, plan together. Sit and discuss how this can be resolved without you having to earn a heavy conviction, as well as, the tergiversation of your wife's stance be not construed as perjury under oath.

Let the mutual love continue. (Hebrews 13:1, New Testament). All the best.

I will be out of town for the next 5 days. So, I will write back on 12/21. Until then, good luck.
 
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Thanks poongunranar

How do you know so much about Ooty ? It may surprise you to know that I am half Toda. My Maternal grandparents are Todas and my Grandfather was the first educated Toda in Nilgiris getting his BA from Madras Christian College in 1926. He was the First indigenous Assistant Collector of Nilgiris in the 1930's until he converted to a Christian and renounced a good government job to be a pastor thereby also becoming the first Toda Christian and Pastor. Today his decendants number about 75 and the government had given them land at Muthorai, near Ooty which is called Toda Christian Colony. However my Grandfather orginally is from the Kodanad Mund near Kotagiri.

Thanks again for your advice.

Ooty
 
You don't seem to get it

Ooty,

You say:

"I also talked to me wife and told her that I will sign a letter that in any future agruments I will not hit her provided she takes anger management counseling"

I don't think you get it man. You don't get to hit women in this country under ANY circumstance!!! Understand?? And who cares at what you say in a letter? Independent of whether the other person is doing wrong or not, you cannot "threat" anyone with violence.

Your wife may have a problem, and it's commendable that you suggest counseling and the like. I'm not trying to make any excuses for her behavior here. But even if she refuses to take action, you cannot hit her!!! It's easy to sit back and say that one doesn't believe in divorce, but if your wife refuses to seek help in order to change, then I'm afraid to say that at least separation is your only recourse.

PS: I'm glad to hear that you're a Christian. I'm sure you'll work it out.
 
Re: PS: I'm glad to hear that you're a Christian. I'm sure you'll work it out.

What the ---- does that mean ? If you are a christian it willl work out otherwise it won't ?!
No matter what religion you follow, if the husband and wife can reconcile their differences it will work out otherwise it won't.

Don't make that kind of remarks.....
 
You don't get it GCBoard

My wife and kids are already back home and we are working things one day at a time. When I told my wife I will write a letter provided she takes counselling, we were not together so "the provided" actually meant, if she wants to come back and wants some type of guarantee that what I did won't occur, I need some guarantee that what she did won't occur, otherwise there is no use of re-conciliation. So hence my letter and her willingness to take counselling. I very well understand that if she doesn't take counselling that doesn't mean I can resume hitting her but there are other ways to let her know she didn't keep her word.

I don't know why I am justifying myself to you in the first place. You are writing to me like I am a convicted, habitual wife beater and my IQ is 20. I get everything. What happened was a situation that got out of control and I'm wiser for it now.

Like Ihack said being Christian has nothing to do in marital relationships. An atheist can have a happy married life.
 
Re: You don't seem to get it

Originally posted by GCBoard
PS: I'm glad to hear that you're a Christian. I'm sure you'll work it out.
Click to expand...

What kind of BIGOTED statement is that? Your posts usually smack of a very condescending and patronizing attitude, but your last statement adds religious bigot to your personality.

Pride is excessive belief in one's own abilities

Ooty,

Sorry to jump in so abruptly, but I would think twice about giving anything in writing as to the fact that you beat/won't beat your wife. Just as a long term self protection mechanism, in case the current case is dismissed from court, but something happens in the long term, this is not the kind of document you want in your wife's hands IF she decides to seperate. If you do decide to write this down on paper, also make sure that it holds the exact sequence of events with your wife's side of the story as well as your reason for provocation. Also ask her to sign it to maintain status quo.

I am glad things are working out for you, and I do wish you, and your family the very best in these distressing times.

Good luck!
 
Reading Comprehension

Ooty,

Glad to hear things are working out for you. I also wasn't looking for an excuse; you made this public and I was explaining the facts based on what you wrote. I don't know you at all so I don't have an opinion about you, just the case you presented.

140_takes_4ever, ihack1

Pay attention to what you read before you criticize. I told Ooty that I was glad to hear he was a Christian, because I am one, and therefore familiar with the religion and the tools available to him to solve whatever issues he has. Then I said (new sentence), "I'm sure you'll work it out" simply a statement of hope.

I never said nor implied that he could not work things out if he had any other religion. While I am proud of my faith, I also have a lot of respect towards other religions. No where did I imply otherwise. I guess this was a case of misguided paranoia on your part.
 
Ooty, GCBoard, 140_takes_4ever

Ubi Caritas et amore Deus ibi est - "Where there is charity and love, God is there." BTW, I am also a Christian, and as many of you have said, that has nothing to do with whatever we discuss here. Let us not get embroiled on religious affiliations. To me, GCBoard didn't mean any bigotry, even though it may have sounded like that. I hope we will put this beyond us.

140_takes_4ever: Dude, thanks for such a wonderful advice. Man, you are thinking far ahead and it is a wonderful advise. Ooty would do well by not giving anything in writing. That would be suicidal.

GCBoard: Thanks for trying hard to drive home the point. I got the spirit of your message, dude. Yes! On any count, it is the law that nobody beats his wife. Period. I think, you didn't underestimate Ooty's IQ :D, but merely tried to underscore the importance of the law. I am with you on this one.

Ooty: Boy, Ooty, I salute your heritage man. Later, when all things get settled down, I will establish contacts with you so that I can take a stroll around Charing-Cross with TANTEA in my hands :D. Please pay attention to the advices given by the other two friends. They are indispensable. Talk to your wife. This being the season of Advent, ask her to reconcile and both of you vow to each other, or rather, renew your marriage vows. A cup of tea with I Corinthians 13:1-13 , would do the magic, dude. Don't give anything in writing. I love my Ooty and miss it very dearly :(. I really, mean it. Wonderful to know, that your wife and kids are back. Keep us posted with the progress of your Case (DV).

Friends of this forum -- I wish you all a MERRY CHRISTMAS, from the bottom of my heart. Drive safe and stay free from these frustrating I-485 worries.
 
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