Does a conviction for a Class C Misdemeanor for Assault - Family affect 485 ? This is a ticket like speeding not jail time. We had an arguement which got out of hand and my wife called the cops. I payed bail and am set to appear before a judge in two weeks. The bail form says if convicted I have to pay a fine which will be taken from the bail I posted.
Class C misdemeanor
- Thread starter Ooty
- Start date
poongunranar
Registered Users (C)
Answer is a YES and a NO depending upon the circumstances of your case.
It may be a "misdemeanor" per State and Federal Statutes, but a conviction can land you in trouble for Immigration purposes. Do not enter into a nolo contendre (plea of no-contest). Seems like you were arrested and jail-time is insignificant for immigration purposes (Sentence imposed is more important than sentence served). If you have a second conviction (What is the surety that you won't argue, or your wife won't call the cops again?), that will be a major problem. So avoid all occassions of a second possible conviction (including reckless driving).
Which state do you belong to? Do you have a good moral character, other than this single offense? Were you finger-printed? Will your wife plead that arguments are part of your culture and that you have an otherwise pukka cordial conjugal relationship, in the Court and that she in a fit of rage called 911?
If the INS transfers your case to a local office, they may not only query about the details of this incident, but will inquire and grill about the relationship between both of you to make sure that the marriage was not entered for green-card purposes. At this point of time, you may need to assess the kind of relationship you may have with your wife and your wife with you.
It may be a "misdemeanor" per State and Federal Statutes, but a conviction can land you in trouble for Immigration purposes. Do not enter into a nolo contendre (plea of no-contest). Seems like you were arrested and jail-time is insignificant for immigration purposes (Sentence imposed is more important than sentence served). If you have a second conviction (What is the surety that you won't argue, or your wife won't call the cops again?), that will be a major problem. So avoid all occassions of a second possible conviction (including reckless driving).
Which state do you belong to? Do you have a good moral character, other than this single offense? Were you finger-printed? Will your wife plead that arguments are part of your culture and that you have an otherwise pukka cordial conjugal relationship, in the Court and that she in a fit of rage called 911?
If the INS transfers your case to a local office, they may not only query about the details of this incident, but will inquire and grill about the relationship between both of you to make sure that the marriage was not entered for green-card purposes. At this point of time, you may need to assess the kind of relationship you may have with your wife and your wife with you.
poongunranar
I live in Texas. This is my first offence for domestic dispute. I was fingerprinted and photographed at the police station. I have already submitted FP for immigration on May 9th 2003. I have 2 speeding tickets over the passed 5 years which I dismissed by taking defensive driving. I got one speeding ticket about two months back and could not dismiss it since a year had not passed from the last time I did the defensive driving course and so I hired a lawyer to dismiss it or get adjucated probation.
Our agruement happened yesterday. My wife is still in a sully mood and I cannot predict right now if she will side with me. We are married for 11 years and have been in the U.S. over six years and this is the first time cops were called to the home. If I don't plead no contest then I will have to fight the case I guess. I am not sure if my wife will come around to being co-operative. She is pretty pissed because I slapped her once in retaliation to using abusive words in our agruement in front of our two small kids. That's when she called the cops. I am not sure how I can not plead no contest when I did slap her once and argue to the contrary.
However for immigration purposes, do you still think that these small domestic agruements that do not rise to the level of extreme abuse be construed a criminal ? I mean if it was, why would I need to pay a fine. The penal class is the same as speeding tickets and I do know that speeding ticket convictions should not jepordize immigration unless it is a chronic and repeated too often.
I live in Texas. This is my first offence for domestic dispute. I was fingerprinted and photographed at the police station. I have already submitted FP for immigration on May 9th 2003. I have 2 speeding tickets over the passed 5 years which I dismissed by taking defensive driving. I got one speeding ticket about two months back and could not dismiss it since a year had not passed from the last time I did the defensive driving course and so I hired a lawyer to dismiss it or get adjucated probation.
Our agruement happened yesterday. My wife is still in a sully mood and I cannot predict right now if she will side with me. We are married for 11 years and have been in the U.S. over six years and this is the first time cops were called to the home. If I don't plead no contest then I will have to fight the case I guess. I am not sure if my wife will come around to being co-operative. She is pretty pissed because I slapped her once in retaliation to using abusive words in our agruement in front of our two small kids. That's when she called the cops. I am not sure how I can not plead no contest when I did slap her once and argue to the contrary.
However for immigration purposes, do you still think that these small domestic agruements that do not rise to the level of extreme abuse be construed a criminal ? I mean if it was, why would I need to pay a fine. The penal class is the same as speeding tickets and I do know that speeding ticket convictions should not jepordize immigration unless it is a chronic and repeated too often.
poongunranar
I forgot to add that the sentence imposed for this is a fine and not sentence in terms of jail time. Also I am the primary applicant and she is the derivative. As for assessing our relationship I do not want to take revenge by discontinuing the GC process for her for our kids sake. I strongly feel that they need both parents though things have been brewing for a while. It takes two hand to clap goes the cliche. Again let me stress that the bond paper explicitly says that if I plead no-contest or guilty the judge WILL IMPOSE A FINE WHICH WILL BE COVERED BY THE BAIL AMOUNT ALREADY PAID, IF CASE IS DISMISSED THEN THE BAIL AMOUNT WILL BE REFUNDED. No mention of any other sentence to be served.
What are youe deductions in light of the above pertaining to immigration.
Thanks!!
I forgot to add that the sentence imposed for this is a fine and not sentence in terms of jail time. Also I am the primary applicant and she is the derivative. As for assessing our relationship I do not want to take revenge by discontinuing the GC process for her for our kids sake. I strongly feel that they need both parents though things have been brewing for a while. It takes two hand to clap goes the cliche. Again let me stress that the bond paper explicitly says that if I plead no-contest or guilty the judge WILL IMPOSE A FINE WHICH WILL BE COVERED BY THE BAIL AMOUNT ALREADY PAID, IF CASE IS DISMISSED THEN THE BAIL AMOUNT WILL BE REFUNDED. No mention of any other sentence to be served.
What are youe deductions in light of the above pertaining to immigration.
Thanks!!
What is happening to people now a days... because of frustations...???
Let me tell you, just go ahed and convence her or try to make sure she will not agnist you. Call her parents and let them know your situation and they will help you out in convencing her.
That is only solution you have now before going to Judge. Atleast it is just common in our culture and we have been married since 11years and nothing happend. She has to say she got upset of some internal family problems and we had some discussion and it went by mistake to cops. You have to get the same thing from her, other wise you and your family has to pay for the slapping in your 11 year married life.
Try to convence her if the situation comes to touch her foots you have to do, because of your carrier and your family life. Don't have ego feelings, remove from your mind and just think peacefully.
Say to her it is normal in family life, I just slapped and you made a complaint agnist me. You want to ruin your family life it is in your hands.
I am just giving suggestion, if I made any mistake please forgive me...
All the best in convencing her.
BaSh
Let me tell you, just go ahed and convence her or try to make sure she will not agnist you. Call her parents and let them know your situation and they will help you out in convencing her.
That is only solution you have now before going to Judge. Atleast it is just common in our culture and we have been married since 11years and nothing happend. She has to say she got upset of some internal family problems and we had some discussion and it went by mistake to cops. You have to get the same thing from her, other wise you and your family has to pay for the slapping in your 11 year married life.
Try to convence her if the situation comes to touch her foots you have to do, because of your carrier and your family life. Don't have ego feelings, remove from your mind and just think peacefully.
Say to her it is normal in family life, I just slapped and you made a complaint agnist me. You want to ruin your family life it is in your hands.
I am just giving suggestion, if I made any mistake please forgive me...
All the best in convencing her.
BaSh
It's better for you to call the police before she does. Now you know she will not tolerate slapping. May be next time she uses dirty words, record it and call the appropriate authorities with your case. Just to let her know how much you will tolerate. Consult your immigration attorney.
poongunranar
Registered Users (C)
Ooty
I am a strong defender of the institution of marriage and therefore do not get me wrong. However, I am also thinking very pragmatically. If she is sullen and is kind of disoriented with whatever had happened (you may even be guilty of hitting her and I am not here to judge either of you) and if she is about to give one more 911 call, you are in very deep trouble. That is the crux of the issue that I was talking about. I will never advise you or anybody to wreak vengeance. On issues like this, both are losers. In this War of Kilkenny Cats both the spouses are at loss. So, either be at peace ASAP or better part ways, so that one person's anger doesn't faultily jeopardize the other person's career, future, etc. Since you have kids, shed your egos and try to fight this together. Impress her the need to stay together, else, remember it is going to be a fiasco for both.
Now, the laws against Domestic Violence in this country are very harsh. And culture plays no role in the interpretation of those laws. At least 2 guys from VSC were arrested by cops and had to face criminal charges for Domestic Violence -- Type 5 Misdemeanor for Domestic Violence (ARGUMENT). They didn't beat their wives. Rather, neighbors called the cops when arguments ensued. Cops were prompt to arrest those two guys on two separate incidents and they are now running from pillar-to-post to avoid convictions. So, once a criminal case of Domestic Violence goes to court, it doesn't matter what exactly constituted the DV. In fact, as per the laws of this country, if you were to give your wife $20 each day as her allowance, that itself is a valid ground for DV under which she can call the cops. Remember, DV is not about physical violence, rather it is a war of personalities where one tries to exert influence or control on the other. And in this country, that is plain wrong. In India, Ooty, Coonoor, Ketti, or Aruvankadu, wherever it is, giving a wife daily allowance is perfectly valid thing. Now, these courts are going to lampoon those practices. So, first remove that from your frame of mind so that you can see the case in black-and-white terms.
Now, you say that you slapped your wife. Is that recorded in the Police Report? Now, did your wife say so to the Police? Did your children depose to that effect? If so, the cops would have explicitly mentioned this in the report. First try to get the Police Report and read it. See what it says.
As far as fine is concerned, I give two hoots. Man, it is your career that is at stake. Even if it should cost you $1000 or $2000, that is much better than something worse, IMHO. So, don't judge the case by the fine. INS critically examines each case as to what the guilty had to say. Even if the guilty was to cut a deal with the DA and the Judge and then accept a guilty plea or even a no-contest, it clearly shows that the alien has admitted to committing the crime. This is all that INS needs for launching removal proceedings.
Now, I fully acknowledge the fact, that in some cases INS has been lenient and has pardoned convicted criminals (when I say convicted, I am dealing with INS parlance, even though a convict means a murderer or rapist, etc. in State / Federal parlance) if the offense had been committed once and hasn't been an aggravated felony.
Now, INS's IIRAIRA 1996 gives a carte blanche to INS to classify many crimes as either aggravated felony or Crimes of Moral Turpitude. Again, State/Federal interpretation of those terms have no bearing on INS' interpretation. I know many cases of DV, DWI, DUI, Shop-lifting have been pardoned. On the same token, many others have been placed on deportation proceedings precisely on those crimes. So, on issues such as these, it is upto the individual to either be Pollyannaish or Optimistic or Pessimistic.
In all probability, if this is your only criminal conviction, where the Judge imposes a sentence of not more than 1 year (most state forms will blindly have a clause of 1 year and negotiate with the DA and the Judge to at least reduce it to 11 months and 29 days) or still better if it is not more than 6 months, then you may not have any problems with INS.
However, if you have a criminal case with your wife pitched against you, then this is going to be a major loss for everybody -- you, your wife and most importantly the kids. Because of this stupid GC, your marriage is at stake. Therefore, please do use your good senses of winning your wife back to your side. Tell her clearly that this is the only way BOTH or ALL of you can be safe. First do this, Ooty. Then you must remove the glib image you have about your own offense as though "slapping" was not an offense. Per law, you are viewed differently. Don't forget that. So, be sensitive to the seriousness of the charge you are facing. Then, try to fight the case and don't meekly plead no-contest or guilty plea. In order for this to happen, I assume you would have won your wife to your side by then. Involve yourself in a lot of community work thereafter to prove your good moral character. Never drive recklessly again or in short never attempt to do anything that would tarnish your records, which have received serious drubbings, unfortunately.
Let me tell you this: I am very guarded on what I type. These days, am feeling very bad at the kind of issues immigrants are facing. I want to give hope and that is the reason I type information more than necessary because when somebody is confronted with a situation like yours, the ability to think and react gets retarded. That is the precise moment when one feels, "Won't somebody tell me what the repercussions are and how to react?" That is exactly what I am trying to do here. So, do not take my advices to be discouraging. I do exude hope as well as present the flip side of the coin so that you may be aplomb in fighting it out. Do not lose hope. You will do great. Really, I mean it. Always remember, one-time offenders have got GC. Don't forget that. At the same time, do not think this is a non-issue, as at least INS doesn't see it that way.
Good luck.
I am a strong defender of the institution of marriage and therefore do not get me wrong. However, I am also thinking very pragmatically. If she is sullen and is kind of disoriented with whatever had happened (you may even be guilty of hitting her and I am not here to judge either of you) and if she is about to give one more 911 call, you are in very deep trouble. That is the crux of the issue that I was talking about. I will never advise you or anybody to wreak vengeance. On issues like this, both are losers. In this War of Kilkenny Cats both the spouses are at loss. So, either be at peace ASAP or better part ways, so that one person's anger doesn't faultily jeopardize the other person's career, future, etc. Since you have kids, shed your egos and try to fight this together. Impress her the need to stay together, else, remember it is going to be a fiasco for both.
Now, the laws against Domestic Violence in this country are very harsh. And culture plays no role in the interpretation of those laws. At least 2 guys from VSC were arrested by cops and had to face criminal charges for Domestic Violence -- Type 5 Misdemeanor for Domestic Violence (ARGUMENT). They didn't beat their wives. Rather, neighbors called the cops when arguments ensued. Cops were prompt to arrest those two guys on two separate incidents and they are now running from pillar-to-post to avoid convictions. So, once a criminal case of Domestic Violence goes to court, it doesn't matter what exactly constituted the DV. In fact, as per the laws of this country, if you were to give your wife $20 each day as her allowance, that itself is a valid ground for DV under which she can call the cops. Remember, DV is not about physical violence, rather it is a war of personalities where one tries to exert influence or control on the other. And in this country, that is plain wrong. In India, Ooty, Coonoor, Ketti, or Aruvankadu, wherever it is, giving a wife daily allowance is perfectly valid thing. Now, these courts are going to lampoon those practices. So, first remove that from your frame of mind so that you can see the case in black-and-white terms.
Now, you say that you slapped your wife. Is that recorded in the Police Report? Now, did your wife say so to the Police? Did your children depose to that effect? If so, the cops would have explicitly mentioned this in the report. First try to get the Police Report and read it. See what it says.
As far as fine is concerned, I give two hoots. Man, it is your career that is at stake. Even if it should cost you $1000 or $2000, that is much better than something worse, IMHO. So, don't judge the case by the fine. INS critically examines each case as to what the guilty had to say. Even if the guilty was to cut a deal with the DA and the Judge and then accept a guilty plea or even a no-contest, it clearly shows that the alien has admitted to committing the crime. This is all that INS needs for launching removal proceedings.
Now, I fully acknowledge the fact, that in some cases INS has been lenient and has pardoned convicted criminals (when I say convicted, I am dealing with INS parlance, even though a convict means a murderer or rapist, etc. in State / Federal parlance) if the offense had been committed once and hasn't been an aggravated felony.
Now, INS's IIRAIRA 1996 gives a carte blanche to INS to classify many crimes as either aggravated felony or Crimes of Moral Turpitude. Again, State/Federal interpretation of those terms have no bearing on INS' interpretation. I know many cases of DV, DWI, DUI, Shop-lifting have been pardoned. On the same token, many others have been placed on deportation proceedings precisely on those crimes. So, on issues such as these, it is upto the individual to either be Pollyannaish or Optimistic or Pessimistic.
In all probability, if this is your only criminal conviction, where the Judge imposes a sentence of not more than 1 year (most state forms will blindly have a clause of 1 year and negotiate with the DA and the Judge to at least reduce it to 11 months and 29 days) or still better if it is not more than 6 months, then you may not have any problems with INS.
However, if you have a criminal case with your wife pitched against you, then this is going to be a major loss for everybody -- you, your wife and most importantly the kids. Because of this stupid GC, your marriage is at stake. Therefore, please do use your good senses of winning your wife back to your side. Tell her clearly that this is the only way BOTH or ALL of you can be safe. First do this, Ooty. Then you must remove the glib image you have about your own offense as though "slapping" was not an offense. Per law, you are viewed differently. Don't forget that. So, be sensitive to the seriousness of the charge you are facing. Then, try to fight the case and don't meekly plead no-contest or guilty plea. In order for this to happen, I assume you would have won your wife to your side by then. Involve yourself in a lot of community work thereafter to prove your good moral character. Never drive recklessly again or in short never attempt to do anything that would tarnish your records, which have received serious drubbings, unfortunately.
Let me tell you this: I am very guarded on what I type. These days, am feeling very bad at the kind of issues immigrants are facing. I want to give hope and that is the reason I type information more than necessary because when somebody is confronted with a situation like yours, the ability to think and react gets retarded. That is the precise moment when one feels, "Won't somebody tell me what the repercussions are and how to react?" That is exactly what I am trying to do here. So, do not take my advices to be discouraging. I do exude hope as well as present the flip side of the coin so that you may be aplomb in fighting it out. Do not lose hope. You will do great. Really, I mean it. Always remember, one-time offenders have got GC. Don't forget that. At the same time, do not think this is a non-issue, as at least INS doesn't see it that way.
Good luck.
Ooty
not that this message would do any good to you as poongunranar summarized all the scenarios you might face..
I saw this kinda stuff happening in our close family..cops..warnings...neighbors calling cops...I dont want to discuss any of those...Those r like nightmares.. I had to go through listening to arguments both sides. I tried to talk with everyone and I'd always say, dont tell me ur problems...tell each other...I just have few things to say...no matter how enraged you are at any situation.. it never justifies beating any person (let alone your spouse)...Couples fight..argue just about everyday. I think its a part of a relationship.. Anyways, first thing is to not worry about the GC process...I think money comes and money goes..Careers develop and fall apart...But a relationship once broken is really hard to develop back again...
I dont think you should talk to her parents..or ur parents..or neighbors..or even the guys in the forum..I believe you should talk to her...solve things practically. I dont think you can survive 11 years if there is nothing in a relationship...You might have crossed the line by hurting and she did the same thing by calling the cops..Dont get urself finding how to go through this the american way.. Do it as ur parents would do or anyone else with a sensible mind would do..Dont make this a formal issue, its really a personal thing..So, talk with her, apologize as you have to. Dont expect an apology from her even though you might think she has to...
We all live only once..atleast we remember it once in a lifetime anyway...so dont make this short life complicated...
I could've typed the entire legal battle scenarios that I saw. I want to keep that personal. I know lotsa people in this forum personally, so I already would've raised an eyebrow by now..
Take it easy man..Happy Living...Madhav
not that this message would do any good to you as poongunranar summarized all the scenarios you might face..
I saw this kinda stuff happening in our close family..cops..warnings...neighbors calling cops...I dont want to discuss any of those...Those r like nightmares.. I had to go through listening to arguments both sides. I tried to talk with everyone and I'd always say, dont tell me ur problems...tell each other...I just have few things to say...no matter how enraged you are at any situation.. it never justifies beating any person (let alone your spouse)...Couples fight..argue just about everyday. I think its a part of a relationship.. Anyways, first thing is to not worry about the GC process...I think money comes and money goes..Careers develop and fall apart...But a relationship once broken is really hard to develop back again...
I dont think you should talk to her parents..or ur parents..or neighbors..or even the guys in the forum..I believe you should talk to her...solve things practically. I dont think you can survive 11 years if there is nothing in a relationship...You might have crossed the line by hurting and she did the same thing by calling the cops..Dont get urself finding how to go through this the american way.. Do it as ur parents would do or anyone else with a sensible mind would do..Dont make this a formal issue, its really a personal thing..So, talk with her, apologize as you have to. Dont expect an apology from her even though you might think she has to...
We all live only once..atleast we remember it once in a lifetime anyway...so dont make this short life complicated...
I could've typed the entire legal battle scenarios that I saw. I want to keep that personal. I know lotsa people in this forum personally, so I already would've raised an eyebrow by now..
Take it easy man..Happy Living...Madhav
From a woman's perspective
Ooty,
Just though i could add my 2 cents.
11 years of marriage is not a joke. You and your wife must have been through a lot and also have two kids that need both your care and affection. Maybe both of you have been in a lot of stress lately, that you both blew up.
Both of you have been at fault, she - for using abusive language and you - for hitting her. She might have called 911 in the heat of the moment and not really have thought about the implications it would have on your GC. For all you know, she might be regretting herself. Buy some flowers and go home and apologise for hitting her. Talk to her about how you respect her and that you lost your sense of control when she starting talking that way. Make your apology sincere. She will accept it and forgive you and also realise her mistake of using foul language. Only then talk to her about the problems with GC. The reason i say that is because if she gets the idea that you are apologising only to safeguard your back (GC), she is never going to forgive you and could end up making things more difficult than it is right now.
You dont have to fall and beg at her feet...That is just so obtuse....Both of you must be well educated. Talk things out like adults. Also, there was another suggestion to record all conversation..........This is life and you are in a marriage....It should not be Tit for Tat!....Never, ever, ever do that...That is ridiculous!
Next time you do have a fight, if one person is determined to pursue the issue, the other needs to walk away for the time being. When the atmosphere is a little bit cooler , then both of you would be more receptive to listening to each other rather than at the other hot moment.
Sorry for the long essay...could not help it.
Ooty,
Just though i could add my 2 cents.
11 years of marriage is not a joke. You and your wife must have been through a lot and also have two kids that need both your care and affection. Maybe both of you have been in a lot of stress lately, that you both blew up.
Both of you have been at fault, she - for using abusive language and you - for hitting her. She might have called 911 in the heat of the moment and not really have thought about the implications it would have on your GC. For all you know, she might be regretting herself. Buy some flowers and go home and apologise for hitting her. Talk to her about how you respect her and that you lost your sense of control when she starting talking that way. Make your apology sincere. She will accept it and forgive you and also realise her mistake of using foul language. Only then talk to her about the problems with GC. The reason i say that is because if she gets the idea that you are apologising only to safeguard your back (GC), she is never going to forgive you and could end up making things more difficult than it is right now.
You dont have to fall and beg at her feet...That is just so obtuse....Both of you must be well educated. Talk things out like adults. Also, there was another suggestion to record all conversation...
.......This is life and you are in a marriage....It should not be Tit for Tat!....Never, ever, ever do that...That is ridiculous!Next time you do have a fight, if one person is determined to pursue the issue, the other needs to walk away for the time being. When the atmosphere is a little bit cooler
, then both of you would be more receptive to listening to each other rather than at the other hot moment.Sorry for the long essay...could not help it.
poongunranar
Registered Users (C)
Shun Activism...Aliens, I request...Shun Activism at your homes
Anitha, Ooty, and fellow respected members of the forum:
This is not a philosophical request, but a pragmatical one after seeing the "identity-crisis" of the aliens, especially Indians, in this country. Stress and misunderstanding does create tremendous opportunities for arguments and in a fit of rage, even a slap or a punch. Technically and legally, this may be a violation as per the statutes of this country. However, as per Indian Civil Code or Criminal Procedure Code, it is not a violation at all. In fact, just a fortnight ago, Mr. Justice Karpagavinayagam of the Madras High Court in his interim Orders against the Sangita Vs. Rajavel Senathipathy case observed saying, "...even if you were to fight, argue each other behind close-doors, please do so, but do not walk away from the marriage. " Now, is this learned Judge advocating punches/slaps? Hello, wake-up folks. Family issues should never involve law-and-order. But, is this how many of us see these days? No. Why? Because we have become victims to the subtle but effective campaign of activism that is being espoused by selfish publicity-seeking groups, who under the garb of "feminine" rights try to create a wedge by pitching a husband against a wife and vice-versa in one's own home. So, a home, which should be a sanctum sanctorum of love and comity, becomes a breeding-ground of witch-hunt, black-mail, war, violence, and abuse. A husband fears for his wife and vice-versa. A society, whose very pedestal is based on fear, cannot survive. We are immigrants and we know how much the institution of marriage has been razed to ground in this country, primarily because of the society and Courts grossly overdoing and meddling with the internal affairs of an individual's family. In India, Courts of law and the Justice System is not one of purely laws but of justice as well. Here, a very puritanical interpretation of law exacerbates the very marriage and communion of a husband and wife.
Don't even accuse me of supporting Ooty or GLS or anybody accused of DV. All I am asking is, let not the "poltical correctness" or "activism" hide the truth behind the institution of marriage. When a female is encouraged by others to call 911 even for a simple argument, she is going to wield that as a weapon of blackmail. Even if she doesn't the male is going to suspect her of such a thing so that even genuine arguments are suppressed in a relationship until it explodes violently as punches, slaps, kicks or even bloody violence. Think!! Think!!!!
Make no mistake about this: We MUST not violate the laws of this country. But, can we allow factors to violate our "internal peace" or our "internal relationship", just because we happen to be here on our career? As Indians (other countrymen pardon my reference to Indians because of the overwhelming majority of them in this forum) our culture and our laws are more forgiving and can we allow bitterness, haste, activism to ravage our lives in the land of our living, viz. USA?
In cases such as these, nobody is a winner. Both are losers. Any legally savvy guru can twist or use a law to punish a person. Punishment -- is it for revenge or for betterment of the society? Clearly a DV arrest and other immigration commotion thereof seems to me as a revenge where different agencies and groups of people have their own ulterior goals to achieve.
Ex:
a) Criminal Attorneys -- Fat purse
b) DA -- Increase his record as a Samaritan for prosecuting such cases
c) Court -- Collect fines for the County
d) Women's rights Groups -- Another case, more lobbying funds and more publiciity
e) Wife -- "Don't mess with me...Now you know my power."
f) INS -- "Thank you aliens. Because of your stupidity, you have made our job easier to strike two or more people from seeking permanent visas in this country."
Worst kind of violence is Violence at heart . Never make ordinary family disputes turn out to be a law-and-order issue. That may be OK for this culture, not certainly so, for the cultures from where all of you hail from or would have exchanged your vows from.
All said, a woman must never ever suffer abuse at her home. However, whether she suffers ABUSE is only known to her and while arriving at such a judgment, she should not base it on the guidelines of this society, even though she is technically right, but should base it on the overall zeitgeist of all the cultures and societies she hails from so that it is a noetic judgment that she will never ever repent for, later in life. Friends, when mediating should try to put the welfare of the couple first, rather than trying to exacerbate and effect a litigation just to enjoy some celebrity status of their own in the melee.
My few cents.....
Anitha, Ooty, and fellow respected members of the forum:
This is not a philosophical request, but a pragmatical one after seeing the "identity-crisis" of the aliens, especially Indians, in this country. Stress and misunderstanding does create tremendous opportunities for arguments and in a fit of rage, even a slap or a punch. Technically and legally, this may be a violation as per the statutes of this country. However, as per Indian Civil Code or Criminal Procedure Code, it is not a violation at all. In fact, just a fortnight ago, Mr. Justice Karpagavinayagam of the Madras High Court in his interim Orders against the Sangita Vs. Rajavel Senathipathy case observed saying, "...even if you were to fight, argue each other behind close-doors, please do so, but do not walk away from the marriage. " Now, is this learned Judge advocating punches/slaps? Hello, wake-up folks. Family issues should never involve law-and-order. But, is this how many of us see these days? No. Why? Because we have become victims to the subtle but effective campaign of activism that is being espoused by selfish publicity-seeking groups, who under the garb of "feminine" rights try to create a wedge by pitching a husband against a wife and vice-versa in one's own home. So, a home, which should be a sanctum sanctorum of love and comity, becomes a breeding-ground of witch-hunt, black-mail, war, violence, and abuse. A husband fears for his wife and vice-versa. A society, whose very pedestal is based on fear, cannot survive. We are immigrants and we know how much the institution of marriage has been razed to ground in this country, primarily because of the society and Courts grossly overdoing and meddling with the internal affairs of an individual's family. In India, Courts of law and the Justice System is not one of purely laws but of justice as well. Here, a very puritanical interpretation of law exacerbates the very marriage and communion of a husband and wife.
Don't even accuse me of supporting Ooty or GLS or anybody accused of DV. All I am asking is, let not the "poltical correctness" or "activism" hide the truth behind the institution of marriage. When a female is encouraged by others to call 911 even for a simple argument, she is going to wield that as a weapon of blackmail. Even if she doesn't the male is going to suspect her of such a thing so that even genuine arguments are suppressed in a relationship until it explodes violently as punches, slaps, kicks or even bloody violence. Think!! Think!!!!
Make no mistake about this: We MUST not violate the laws of this country. But, can we allow factors to violate our "internal peace" or our "internal relationship", just because we happen to be here on our career? As Indians (other countrymen pardon my reference to Indians because of the overwhelming majority of them in this forum) our culture and our laws are more forgiving and can we allow bitterness, haste, activism to ravage our lives in the land of our living, viz. USA?
In cases such as these, nobody is a winner. Both are losers. Any legally savvy guru can twist or use a law to punish a person. Punishment -- is it for revenge or for betterment of the society? Clearly a DV arrest and other immigration commotion thereof seems to me as a revenge where different agencies and groups of people have their own ulterior goals to achieve.
Ex:
a) Criminal Attorneys -- Fat purse
b) DA -- Increase his record as a Samaritan for prosecuting such cases
c) Court -- Collect fines for the County
d) Women's rights Groups -- Another case, more lobbying funds and more publiciity
e) Wife -- "Don't mess with me...Now you know my power."
f) INS -- "Thank you aliens. Because of your stupidity, you have made our job easier to strike two or more people from seeking permanent visas in this country."
Worst kind of violence is Violence at heart . Never make ordinary family disputes turn out to be a law-and-order issue. That may be OK for this culture, not certainly so, for the cultures from where all of you hail from or would have exchanged your vows from.
All said, a woman must never ever suffer abuse at her home. However, whether she suffers ABUSE is only known to her and while arriving at such a judgment, she should not base it on the guidelines of this society, even though she is technically right, but should base it on the overall zeitgeist of all the cultures and societies she hails from so that it is a noetic judgment that she will never ever repent for, later in life. Friends, when mediating should try to put the welfare of the couple first, rather than trying to exacerbate and effect a litigation just to enjoy some celebrity status of their own in the melee.
My few cents.....
Thanks for the advice - New development
poongunranar looks like you have pretty intimate knowledge of the Nilgiris. Are you from there ?
Yesterday when I came home I found the wife and kids missing. My wife left a message via a phone card on the answering machine that she's be away for a while. She also took more than half of the balance in one bank account. The cops say that they can;y do anything because she is one of the parent and can take the kids. I need to file a civil suit and when and if she is found then the court will handle custody. I asked the cop that means I could have taken the kids and disappeared for years and that's OK because I'm the parent ? And the cops says yes...what Croc!!
Both the kids are U.S. citizens, The eldest 3 yrs has a passport but luckily we didn't make one for the youngest 11 months old. Otherewise I fear she would leave the country. By law both parents now have to apply for kids passport jointly. What I fear though is it possible for some womens legal group to use a loophole and cite DV to get the passport ?? Also she took my passport, EAD and house title documents.
I am ready to forgive all this when I think of my kids faces. My eldest son does not sleep without me, I put him to sleep everynight. It's so frustrating not knowing where they are.
I brought my wife to this country more than 6 yrs ag, supported her, got her brother a programmers job in Verizon back home even though he wasn't that qaulified and broght her mother here for a visit and sent money now and then. My wife just started working 2 months ago and changed her profession due to the slump in economy, but gets just 1300 and I even told her that she can use that money. I am the main provider. I don't know how she will take care of the kids. It OK if she needed sometime away, she could have just told me though. Granted she will some back if I believe her message but why disappear and take documents and so much money.
The background of the agrument two days ago is...My parents and younger sister are U.S. citizens. I studied here till 6 grade before the family moved back. My parents stay 5 minutes away. In they beginning my wife accused them of interference and I let my parents know that they need to let us live our lives and that was that (this was more than 5 years ago). Now my mother started taking care of the kids when my wife started working. MY eldest son is very attached to. My wife used to call 10 times a day and ask how she is taking care of them. I told her call once or twice, my mother is not a hired hand to question so much, which grandmother will not take good care. She says that the kids are not healthy anymore and lot of other crap. Two ago it she began asking me "what did the kids eat, did your mother feed them what I sent etc" Again I said why are youquestioning that way ? She started abusing my and my mother and I don't want to say what I did was right, but if anybody hears someone abusing their mother than one slap is a hell of a lot of control to me.
Anyway I am using this chat as a therapy for me. Sorry about not writing anything related to I-485....
poongunranar looks like you have pretty intimate knowledge of the Nilgiris. Are you from there ?
Yesterday when I came home I found the wife and kids missing. My wife left a message via a phone card on the answering machine that she's be away for a while. She also took more than half of the balance in one bank account. The cops say that they can;y do anything because she is one of the parent and can take the kids. I need to file a civil suit and when and if she is found then the court will handle custody. I asked the cop that means I could have taken the kids and disappeared for years and that's OK because I'm the parent ? And the cops says yes...what Croc!!
Both the kids are U.S. citizens, The eldest 3 yrs has a passport but luckily we didn't make one for the youngest 11 months old. Otherewise I fear she would leave the country. By law both parents now have to apply for kids passport jointly. What I fear though is it possible for some womens legal group to use a loophole and cite DV to get the passport ?? Also she took my passport, EAD and house title documents.
I am ready to forgive all this when I think of my kids faces. My eldest son does not sleep without me, I put him to sleep everynight. It's so frustrating not knowing where they are.
I brought my wife to this country more than 6 yrs ag, supported her, got her brother a programmers job in Verizon back home even though he wasn't that qaulified and broght her mother here for a visit and sent money now and then. My wife just started working 2 months ago and changed her profession due to the slump in economy, but gets just 1300 and I even told her that she can use that money. I am the main provider. I don't know how she will take care of the kids. It OK if she needed sometime away, she could have just told me though. Granted she will some back if I believe her message but why disappear and take documents and so much money.
The background of the agrument two days ago is...My parents and younger sister are U.S. citizens. I studied here till 6 grade before the family moved back. My parents stay 5 minutes away. In they beginning my wife accused them of interference and I let my parents know that they need to let us live our lives and that was that (this was more than 5 years ago). Now my mother started taking care of the kids when my wife started working. MY eldest son is very attached to. My wife used to call 10 times a day and ask how she is taking care of them. I told her call once or twice, my mother is not a hired hand to question so much, which grandmother will not take good care. She says that the kids are not healthy anymore and lot of other crap. Two ago it she began asking me "what did the kids eat, did your mother feed them what I sent etc" Again I said why are youquestioning that way ? She started abusing my and my mother and I don't want to say what I did was right, but if anybody hears someone abusing their mother than one slap is a hell of a lot of control to me.
Anyway I am using this chat as a therapy for me. Sorry about not writing anything related to I-485....
My 2 cents....
If I were you, I will explain in calm the implications of what will happen. If she is still arguing, you have to leave the room. Then you have to make up the mind whether you want to live with her or not. Iam happy to see that you value your kids future.
I had a lot of experience in this, although i never left it to reach to call 911.
Arguments, provoking words happened all the time for me. I used to argue and stopped now due to my kid is growing up and can't seem to reach any conclusion. If arguments exceed, I simply say that Iam sorry and leave the room. (If some says that they will always see only part of the picture, there is no use of talking to them)
After my wife came here, she had a fight with me, went to india, fought with my parents, and forced me in a situation to choose either my parents or her. Since, I have a kid, and don't want to ruin his future, I was forced to leave my parents, and no longer speak with them. (I tried a lot to make peace between my parents and her but failed, Not only did I fail, but I get bad words from both).
I have learnt my lessons and now make sure that arguments never happen.
Good luck in your life. GC is nothing. There are more important things.....
If I were you, I will explain in calm the implications of what will happen. If she is still arguing, you have to leave the room. Then you have to make up the mind whether you want to live with her or not. Iam happy to see that you value your kids future.
I had a lot of experience in this, although i never left it to reach to call 911.
Arguments, provoking words happened all the time for me. I used to argue and stopped now due to my kid is growing up and can't seem to reach any conclusion. If arguments exceed, I simply say that Iam sorry and leave the room. (If some says that they will always see only part of the picture, there is no use of talking to them)
After my wife came here, she had a fight with me, went to india, fought with my parents, and forced me in a situation to choose either my parents or her. Since, I have a kid, and don't want to ruin his future, I was forced to leave my parents, and no longer speak with them. (I tried a lot to make peace between my parents and her but failed, Not only did I fail, but I get bad words from both).
I have learnt my lessons and now make sure that arguments never happen.
Good luck in your life. GC is nothing. There are more important things.....
Girls need to understand some things before they argue with their husbands ... they need to get a clear picture of the hardships we've suffered to be in this country ..... they come by marriage leisurely as though it is a vacation after we have worked hard and made a place for ourselves in this country and may be an EAD .... to allow them to work with NOTHING to worry about .....
They need to know that we are the guys who have left our parents at a younger age and came into this country seeking a great future at the cost of love and care showered by our parents ..we get out of our country right after the BS/Graduate degrees from our native lands NOT knowing about our future ..... though NOT in person, we try to be in touch with our parents and console ourselves that there is somebody to talk to ... or will take care of us back in our home land when we go there ...
It is unfair for a female to enter our lives as wife and force us to choose between parents or herself ..... It's unfair on SOME of the females part who take it granted what their husband has earned over the years with great effort as their own with ZERO hardwork .... Huh ....
In your case .. Ooooty .. it seems pretty much damaged already ... try to be calm and try to find where she is .... call her parents and try to explain the situation. Get her to know that yours and her future is at stake and she ineeds to get the picture completely and NOT worsen the situation still ......
my 2 cents..
Sorry !! if I've offended somebody.
They need to know that we are the guys who have left our parents at a younger age and came into this country seeking a great future at the cost of love and care showered by our parents ..we get out of our country right after the BS/Graduate degrees from our native lands NOT knowing about our future ..... though NOT in person, we try to be in touch with our parents and console ourselves that there is somebody to talk to ... or will take care of us back in our home land when we go there ...
It is unfair for a female to enter our lives as wife and force us to choose between parents or herself ..... It's unfair on SOME of the females part who take it granted what their husband has earned over the years with great effort as their own with ZERO hardwork .... Huh ....
In your case .. Ooooty .. it seems pretty much damaged already ... try to be calm and try to find where she is .... call her parents and try to explain the situation. Get her to know that yours and her future is at stake and she ineeds to get the picture completely and NOT worsen the situation still ......
my 2 cents..
Sorry !! if I've offended somebody.
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call her home
Ooty,
My guess is that she will call her home often in India. Call her home in india, and ask them to convince her to come back and it is not worth it.
You can also check the credit card/debit card transactions of her to find out where she went or call her friends/relatives if any in USA.
Check the calls made from your home phone the day she left, it may give you some clues where she went.
Ooty,
My guess is that she will call her home often in India. Call her home in india, and ask them to convince her to come back and it is not worth it.
You can also check the credit card/debit card transactions of her to find out where she went or call her friends/relatives if any in USA.
Check the calls made from your home phone the day she left, it may give you some clues where she went.
Real Advice
Ooty, I’m a firm believer in innocent until proven guilty – not the case here since you’ve admitted guilt. Truth is we all make mistakes. I wouldn’t be so mad if you simply admitted your wrong doing, repented, and took appropriate steps to change (professional help). However, trying to justify your actions or in any way imply that your wife deserved what she got truly sickens me. One slap is NEVER "one hell of control". You don't hit women period! Also, whether you’ve been married for 1 day or 11 years, there is NO JUSTIFICATION for what you did. Furthermore, it’s absolutely despicable to hear all your supporters, talk about “culture”, or how to “handle” the situation as though your wife was the problem. What kind of sick parents would support someone who beats on their daughter? What kind of sick messed up culture, would allow something like this to happen to a female under the umbrella of “it’s within the family”? I hope none.
No woman should tolerate any type of physical abuse in any way – I applaud your wife for leaving – at least until you get help.
Look, I’m sorry if I’m being harsh; but I’m being very honest here. I hope things work out for you man, but rather than be like many on this board that see your wife as the problem and wishes she would “cooperate”, I think that you need to recognize that this was your mistake.
Arguments happen, and I’m not a counselor to tell you how to handle your problems. But again, physical abuse should NEVER be tolerated, and it’s a GREAT thing that this great country looks after those who are abused. I hate PC as much as the next guy, but this has nothing to do with political correctness.
I realize this is an immigration forum and not some kind of moralistic site, but even though I’m for the most part a silent surfer, I’ve been outraged by some of the responses I’ve read on this thread. Take the steps to change and you’ll look back at this as just one bad experience. Best of luck!
Ooty, I’m a firm believer in innocent until proven guilty – not the case here since you’ve admitted guilt. Truth is we all make mistakes. I wouldn’t be so mad if you simply admitted your wrong doing, repented, and took appropriate steps to change (professional help). However, trying to justify your actions or in any way imply that your wife deserved what she got truly sickens me. One slap is NEVER "one hell of control". You don't hit women period! Also, whether you’ve been married for 1 day or 11 years, there is NO JUSTIFICATION for what you did. Furthermore, it’s absolutely despicable to hear all your supporters, talk about “culture”, or how to “handle” the situation as though your wife was the problem. What kind of sick parents would support someone who beats on their daughter? What kind of sick messed up culture, would allow something like this to happen to a female under the umbrella of “it’s within the family”? I hope none.
No woman should tolerate any type of physical abuse in any way – I applaud your wife for leaving – at least until you get help.
Look, I’m sorry if I’m being harsh; but I’m being very honest here. I hope things work out for you man, but rather than be like many on this board that see your wife as the problem and wishes she would “cooperate”, I think that you need to recognize that this was your mistake.
Arguments happen, and I’m not a counselor to tell you how to handle your problems. But again, physical abuse should NEVER be tolerated, and it’s a GREAT thing that this great country looks after those who are abused. I hate PC as much as the next guy, but this has nothing to do with political correctness.
I realize this is an immigration forum and not some kind of moralistic site, but even though I’m for the most part a silent surfer, I’ve been outraged by some of the responses I’ve read on this thread. Take the steps to change and you’ll look back at this as just one bad experience. Best of luck!
Hi GcBoard
First of all, I don't accept anyone beating their wife. I have never physically abused my wife and never will.
Having said that, unless you are in that position, you don't know how fncked up life becomes, when your parents and wife start fighting. Your parents will say that "you are following your wife's saree" and wife will say "if you still want to be your mom's son, why did you marry me?" What answer will you give?
I know exactly how it feels. You want to take entire family to "counselor" ????
I want to bring in the "culture". Because, you have to live either in US culture or in Indian culture, You can't be picky on few things.
you spend all your life to reach where you are, dedicate your life to make your wife happy and you can't have a decent life? You have everything in the world, and still messed up family?
We don't want to divorce, to keep the family together.
If I or ooty were following US culture, we wouldn't be trying to bring peace, rather consult a divorce attorney and then be a "caring" single parent.
Don't start lecturing any more BS.
First of all, I don't accept anyone beating their wife. I have never physically abused my wife and never will.
Having said that, unless you are in that position, you don't know how fncked up life becomes, when your parents and wife start fighting. Your parents will say that "you are following your wife's saree" and wife will say "if you still want to be your mom's son, why did you marry me?" What answer will you give?
I know exactly how it feels. You want to take entire family to "counselor" ????
I want to bring in the "culture". Because, you have to live either in US culture or in Indian culture, You can't be picky on few things.
you spend all your life to reach where you are, dedicate your life to make your wife happy and you can't have a decent life? You have everything in the world, and still messed up family?
We don't want to divorce, to keep the family together.
If I or ooty were following US culture, we wouldn't be trying to bring peace, rather consult a divorce attorney and then be a "caring" single parent.
Don't start lecturing any more BS.
Patel Kishan
Registered Users (C)
Dear Ooty, I could imagine your pain and uncertainity you are going through.
I pray God to bring peace in your life.
Peace, peace, peace, peace
Love, love, love, love, love
Care, care, care, care, care
Peace, love, care, and happyness
God bless you, your wife, and lovely kids. I am praying for her safe return and happy life for you all.
KP
I pray God to bring peace in your life.
Peace, peace, peace, peace
Love, love, love, love, love
Care, care, care, care, care
Peace, love, care, and happyness
God bless you, your wife, and lovely kids. I am praying for her safe return and happy life for you all.
KP